[Eco disaster] Australians will become the first climate refugees soon. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15060400
[Eco disaster] Australians will become the first climate refugees soon.

Many Singaporeans in Aust will return home too.

Today, much of Australia is on fire due to record beaking ground temperatures.


This ecological disaster is the result of greedy people who pumped out (and squandered) excessive ground water until the water table is beyond reach of forests at all.

See video about sky streams in Amazon: trees are the real inhabitants of the Earth, humans are only visitors (interlopers). Tree societies (forests) bank water in the sky by transpiration and ground water is their emergency water lifesource.


[youtube]VGurBZ0b6nI[/youtube]

Trees also like to transpire to balance water on ground and in the atmosphere to maintain stable ground temperatures by controlling sunlight since white clouds are like mirrors which reflect sunlight and prevent day time temperatures from getting too high (as do temperature extremes exists in desert conditions). Trees in desperate need for water are also able to secrete chemical ions which encourage rain seeding and thus rainfall.

More and more rainforest in Australia is becoming desert as a result of greedy people exhausting ground water sources, not least clearing forest for mining, township or farming purposes etc.

The desertification of Australia will cause cropt yields to spiral sharply downwards as forest fail to regenerate themselves and make Australia a nett food importing country. Warmer seas will bleach coral reefs and make Australian seas barren, resulting in drastic drop in fishing yields.

The great Australian desert is expanding due to greed and irresponsible stewardship by mankind or the Australian people.

Soon enough, Australia is only be good as a place of exile. The ecology will be significantly destroyed and nobody will want to live there. Koala bears will be a near extinct species in their own native country as well.

As deserved, Australians will be climate refugees soon.
#15063119
Donna wrote:The first climate refugees were probably slum dwellers in Lagos or Dhaka who were permanently displaced by volatile sea levels or extreme weather.

What a load of nonsense. There have been climate refugees since there have been people. Our species evolved specifically to survive the vicissitudes of large, repeated climate change cycles (Ice Ages). The real "climate change deniers" are those who deny that the climate would still be changing in unexpected and inconvenient ways in the absence of anthropogenic CO2, as it always did before.
#15063122
Truth To Power wrote:What a load of nonsense. There have been climate refugees since there have been people. Our species evolved specifically to survive the vicissitudes of large, repeated climate change cycles (Ice Ages). The real "climate change deniers" are those who deny that the climate would still be changing in unexpected and inconvenient ways in the absence of anthropogenic CO2, as it always did before.

^ This. Human intelligence, in particular, seems to have emerged as a response to a repeatedly fluctuating climate over the past half a million years or so, which required a flexible response based on abstract reasoning skills and intense social co-operation. As all the other large mammals were going extinct, humans survived. And here we are now.

Just because the Earth's climate has been unusually stable since the end of the last glacial period about 20,000 years ago is no reason to suppose that it will continue to be stable, especially given human industrial activity over the past few centuries and our population explosion. No, the climate will change as it has always changed, and humanity will suffer and adapt and survive and then suffer some more and adapt again, and again and again until some unforeseen disaster like a meteor or a supervolcano finally snuffs us.
#15063169
AFAIK wrote:I'm not going to bother vaccinating my kids because they'll just die of something else when they're older. It might be something completely random and unpreventable like lightning. Remind me why your a socialist again, Pote?

It just seems to me that human civilisation, in its current or in any foreseeable form, is unsustainable. And no proletarian revolution is going to solve that problem. There are simply too many people, and we are using up too much of the Earth's non-renewable resources. And our attempts at a 'solution' are laughable - banning plastic bags at supermarkets? Lol.

No, we are heading the same way the Maya civilisation went back in the 8th and 9th centuries AD - total systemic collapse. But as I have said before, from the Earth's point of view it's a problem which will solve itself in the end. Our industrial civilisation will collapse due to climate change, resource depletion and pollution, there will be a population crash, and everything will reset on a lower technological level with a smaller population. In other words, pretty much what happened during the Classic Maya Collapse.
#15063174
Truth To Power wrote:What a load of nonsense. There have been climate refugees since there have been people. Our species evolved specifically to survive the vicissitudes of large, repeated climate change cycles (Ice Ages). The real "climate change deniers" are those who deny that the climate would still be changing in unexpected and inconvenient ways in the absence of anthropogenic CO2, as it always did before.


Memo: when people discuss climate change, they're generally referring to anthropogenic climate change.
#15063188
Donna wrote:Memo: when people discuss climate change, they're generally referring to anthropogenic climate change.

It may prove tò be one of the ironies of evolutionary history that the very intelligence which enabled our ancestors to adapt to a rapidy fluctuating climate may end up actually triggering a catastrophically fluctuating climate itself.... :lol:
#15063196
I guess there is a good environmental reason why Australia was left untouched by modern humans until 1788, when around 750,000 Aborigines were confronted with the First Fleet that departed from Portsmouth to found the penal colony. Otherwise, mainland Asians would have discovered and settled in Australia as they successfully did in Indonesia or New Zealand. The ancestors of modern Southeast Asians or Melanesians reached Australia around 40,000-30,000 years ago. Papuan and Aboriginal Australian ancestors diversified 25–40 thousand years ago (kya) in the ancient continent of Sahul (Malaspinas et al. 2016). 2%-3% of all non-African ancestry is derived from Neanderthals, while Melanesians having an additional 2%–4% of ancestry attributable to gene flow with Denisovans. Denisovans may have mated with modern humans in Indonesia and New Guinea, which could have introduced H. erectus DNA into the genomes of modern Southeast Asians. Their DNA contains 1% of genetic material that doesn’t appear to come from modern humans, Neanderthals, or Denisovans, which is likely to be derived from H. erectus. H. erectus was still around in Java when Denisovans were migrating through the region, thus mating with H. erectus. Homo erectus had traveled to Java when it was connected to the mainland via land bridges and lived there for approximately 1.5 million years until they made their last stand on the island about 100,000 years ago (Rizal et al. 2019).

Abstract
The population history of Aboriginal Australians remains largely uncharacterized. Here we generate high-coverage genomes for 83 Aboriginal Australians (speakers of Pama–Nyungan languages) and 25 Papuans from the New Guinea Highlands. We find that Papuan and Aboriginal Australian ancestors diversified 25–40 thousand years ago (kya), suggesting pre-Holocene population structure in the ancient continent of Sahul (Australia, New Guinea and Tasmania). However, all of the studied Aboriginal Australians descend from a single founding population that differentiated ~10–32 kya. We infer a population expansion in northeast Australia during the Holocene epoch (past 10,000 years) associated with limited gene flow from this region to the rest of Australia, consistent with the spread of the Pama–Nyungan languages. We estimate that Aboriginal Australians and Papuans diverged from Eurasians 51–72 kya, following a single out-of-Africa dispersal, and subsequently admixed with archaic populations. Finally, we report evidence of selection in Aboriginal Australians potentially associated with living in the desert.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature18299

Abstract
Homo erectus is the founding early hominin species of Island Southeast Asia, and reached Java (Indonesia) more than 1.5 million years ago1,2. Twelve H. erectus calvaria (skull caps) and two tibiae (lower leg bones) were discovered from a bone bed located about 20 m above the Solo River at Ngandong (Central Java) between 1931 and 19333,4, and are of the youngest, most-advanced form of H. erectus5,6,7,8. Despite the importance of the Ngandong fossils, the relationship between the fossils, terrace fill and ages have been heavily debated9,10,11,12,13,14. Here, to resolve the age of the Ngandong evidence, we use Bayesian modelling of 52 radiometric age estimates to establish—to our knowledge—the first robust chronology at regional, valley and local scales. We used uranium-series dating of speleothems to constrain regional landscape evolution; luminescence, 40argon/39argon (40Ar/39Ar) and uranium-series dating to constrain the sequence of terrace evolution; and applied uranium-series and uranium series–electron-spin resonance (US–ESR) dating to non-human fossils to directly date our re-excavation of Ngandong5,15. We show that at least by 500 thousand years ago (ka) the Solo River was diverted into the Kendeng Hills, and that it formed the Solo terrace sequence between 316 and 31 ka and the Ngandong terrace between about 140 and 92 ka. Non-human fossils recovered during the re-excavation of Ngandong date to between 109 and 106 ka (uranium-series minimum)16 and 134 and 118 ka (US–ESR), with modelled ages of 117 to 108 thousand years (kyr) for the H. erectus bone bed, which accumulated during flood conditions3,17. These results negate the extreme ages that have been proposed for the site and solidify Ngandong as the last known occurrence of this long-lived species.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1863-2
#15063983
Truth To Power wrote:What a load of nonsense. There have been climate refugees since there have been people. Our species evolved specifically to survive the vicissitudes of large, repeated climate change cycles (Ice Ages). The real "climate change deniers" are those who deny that the climate would still be changing in unexpected and inconvenient ways in the absence of anthropogenic CO2, as it always did before.


This is a fair statement. This is roughly what my right wing brother believes. He does not deny climate change, but he basically doesn't give a fuck, and thinks "we'll figure it out". Which is true.... but at what cost is my question? Maybe a lot, maybe not a lot, who knows.

However, I think what some of the "we must act" crowd is getting is, is that we should try to remove our contribution to the change, and not necessarily what the natural change in the climate would be (which is claimed to be much slower, and thus, easier to adapt to). I'm not sure people are calling to cancel out he natural change of the climate, just the human component to that change.
#15064184
AFAIK wrote:The UN recently ruled in favour of a Kiribati man claiming refuge in New Zealand. He is the first official climate refugee since he set the legal precedent.


No neither the UN nor the NZ supreme court ruled in his favor.

"The UN Human Rights Committee considered a challenge brought by Mr Teitiota, and while the committee found he was not at imminent risk, it did find that such claims may be upheld in future as the impacts of climate change worsen.

In a non-binding ruling this month, the committee found that governments must take into account climate-related human rights violations when they consider deporting asylum seekers. "


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-21/ ... i/11887070

https://time.com/5768347/climate-refuge ... -teitiota/

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