Are Covid-19 vaccines safe? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15142243
Vaccines are the success story of modern medicine. The history of modern vaccines starts with the smallpox vaccine in the 18th century; however, there are reports of primitive forms of vaccine in China or Africa centuries before that.

While the first vaccines used live viruses, which involves a considerable risk, most vaccines today use dead or deactivated viruses to reduce the risk of infection. The immune system recognizes the virus even after it has been deactivated and thus rendered harmless. The Chinese and Russians primarily use this technology for their Covid-19 vaccines.

Traditionally, it takes years to develop and test a new vaccine; however, due to the inability of Western countries to cope with the pandemic by any other means, the development, testing and regulatory approval of Covid-19 vaccines has been reduced to less than a year.

Does that mean these vaccines aren't safe? Not necessarily. As I said, the technology of traditional deactivated virus vaccines is well known. The delivery mechanisms are known and tested. It's just a matter of developing and producing the virus-specific payload. That in itself is cumbersome and time-consuming. It takes time and a huge amount of eggs to produce the vaccine payload. Since the vaccine material is limited, an adjuvant is typically used to boost the effect of vaccine, especially for the elderly who have a reduced immune response. Depending on the type of adjuvant used, this can sometimes lead to problems with side-effects.

In the West, a totally new technology for producing vaccines has been used for Covid-19. The so-called messenger RNA, or mRNA, vaccines developed by Pfizer/Biontech, Moderna, Curevac, etc., and the DNA vaccine developed by AstraZeneca have never been used for mass vaccination of humans before. They aren't totally new. Biontech and Curevac are two German start-ups created specifically for developing the mRNA technology. Biontech has focused on cancer treatment with mRNA for about 20 years, but the company already partnered with Pfizer a couple of years ago to develop mRNA vaccines for Zika and flu viruses.

The Zika and flu mRNA vaccines weren't very effective and there seem to have been considerable autoimmune problems due to the vaccination. Since the Zika virus is not a problem anymore and there are plenty of other flu vaccines, the mRNA vaccines weren't in the end used for mass vaccination. The autoimmune problems with the Zika and flu viruses may have led Pfizer/Biontech to exclude people with a history of severe allergic reactions from their 3rd phase Covid-19 vaccine trial. It is therefore surprising that the NHS in the UK rushed to use the vaccine for two of its own employees with a history of severe allergic reaction.

The mRNA vaccines can be industrially produced in large quantities without using eggs. In theory, they are also safer than traditional deactivated virus vaccines because no viruses or even parts of viruses are introduced into the human body. The only thing that's introduced is the genetic code of the virus' spike protein it uses for docking to the human ACE2 receptors. The mRNA genetic code is encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles and refrigerated at low temperatures because it is very instable. Following vaccination, the mRNA code of the spike protein enters the cytoplasm of human cells were it produces proteins that look like the virus' spike protein. The immune system recognizes and memorizes the spike protein to produce t-cells and antigens when it is infected by SARS-CoV-2.

Thus, instead of producing a vaccine on eggs, the human body is used to produce the vaccine based on the mRNA code. Since only part of the virus RNA is introduced, it is unthinkable that the human DNA should be somehow modified. And since the mRNA is very instable, it'll disappear soon, only leaving the memory of the spike protein in the immune system. It is therefore likely that if there is a side-effect, it'll be soon after vaccination, as in the case of the allergic reaction in the two NHS employees in the UK.

22,000 people were vaccinated with the new Pfizer/Biontech mRNA vaccine without severe side-effects; however, when hundreds of millions are vaccinated, it's likely that there will be individual cases with severe side-effects. Anyways, from what is known at this point of time, anybody who has to carry an EpiPen to prevent an anaphylactic shock better wait for another vaccine.

The mRNA technology has the potential to revolutionize vaccines and cancer treatment. It's easy and fast to produce, can be highly effective and doesn't require an adjuvant for boosting since it's easy to industrially produce large amounts of vaccine. It can reduce the risk associated with traditional vaccines. At this point, the only worry is that it has never been used in large scale human vaccination. Once established as a carrier technology, payloads for new viruses that may appear in the future could be developed in record time.

I can't link the documents to all of the above information, but here's a good discussion to get started. You can always Google for more.

Want to know more about mRNA before your Covid jab?
#15142247
Yes, they are safe. You will always have some people who react badly to anything, but this number of people is so small compared to the alternative, that it's "as safe as it's going to be".
#15142329
Four trial volunteers who got Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine developed Bell's palsy - but FDA denies that the temporary facial paralysis was caused by the shot

Four people who received Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine in its clinical trial developed Bell's palsy, a form of temporary facial paralysis

The alarming but rare side effect was revealed in a release of detailed data from the FDA ahead of its Thursday meeting when regulators will vote on approval

FDA scientists ruled the side effect was not likely caused by the shot, but said they would likely recommend that Pfizer closely monitor recipients

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... palsy.html
#15142379
Godstud wrote:Yes, they are safe. You will always have some people who react badly to anything, but this number of people is so small compared to the alternative, that it's "as safe as it's going to be".


mRNA vaccines have a great potential. Compared to conventional vaccines, they are safer, easier to make and more effective. They can also be used against various cancers. There are ongoing Biontech trials for treating lung cancer, melanoma and prostate cancer. A friend of ours just died of lung cancer after chemo and other treatments for 3 years. Another one was lucky to get an experimental mRNA vaccine treatment. She says she's feeling fine. Due to these vaccines, there is now hope for many people who would otherwise be condemned to death.

I really don't understand people like @Sivad, who have spread fake news to downplay the pandemic for the last 11 months. More Americans now die of Covid-19 than of any other single cause. Globally, we'll get 5 millions deaths and tens of millions of long Covid sufferers before the pandemic can be brought to a halt thanks to vaccines. For the likes of @Sivad, that's not enough yet. They have to spread fake news about vaccines to feed the anti-vaxxer lobby. They want to see more deaths and suffering. What's wrong with you?

Anti-Vaxxers Take Advantage of Pfizer Trial Participant's Horrific Situation to Spread Fake News

Unlike the UK and perhaps the US, the EU regulatory agency EMA has rejected the emergency approval and will go for a full examination of the vaccines:

As for the safety and efficacy data of both the BioNTech/Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, it “looks very promising,” she noted.

European regulators have a “very healthy data set,” with over 30,000 trial participants followed throughout the trials, said Cooke. “This gives us a very robust data set to make a decision.”

Regulators have not seen reports of “adverse effects that would be cause for concern,” even across different populations, she noted.


EU regulator rejects need for emergency authorization of coronavirus vaccine

And from the FDA:

Bell’s palsy was reported by four vaccine participants and none in the placebo group. These cases occurred at 3, 9, 37, and 48 days after vaccination. One case (onset at 3 days postvaccination) was reported as resolved with sequelae within three days after onset, and the other three were reported as continuing or resolving as of the November 14, 2020 data cut-off with ongoing durations of 10, 15, and 21 days, respectively. The observed frequency of reported Bell’s palsy in the vaccine group is consistent with the expected background rate in the general population, and there is no clear basis upon which to conclude a causal relationship at this time, but FDA will recommend surveillance for cases of Bell’s palsy with deployment of the vaccine into larger populations.
#15142390
The mRNA vaccines can be industrially produced in large quantities without using eggs. In theory, they are also safer than traditional deactivated virus vaccines because no viruses or even parts of viruses are introduced into the human body. The only thing that's introduced is the genetic code of the virus' spike protein it uses for docking to the human ACE2 receptors. The mRNA genetic code is encapsulated in lipid nanoparticles and refrigerated at low temperatures because it is very instable. Following vaccination, the mRNA code of the spike protein enters the cytoplasm of human cells were it produces proteins that look like the virus' spike protein. The immune system recognizes and memorizes the spike protein to produce t-cells and antigens when it is infected by SARS-CoV-2.


The mRNA vaccines are designed to fool the immune system with an mRNA sequence that is not the real virus. But once the antigen is recognised by the immune system, it prepares to fight the real thing. This method is much safer than normal vaccinations, which use small amounts of a killed or weakened germ that causes the disease, by which some people get seriously ill. In some cases, only parts of the germ are used but they're more likely to cause some serious illness especially among small children with a weak immune system.

Vaccine's side effects
It was only after I had received the shot that I read how other volunteers, including journalists and members of a Telegram group called Vaccine Results, had reacted. Some of them said that they had experienced muscle pain and fever within 24 hours of receiving the injection.

I developed a headache in the evening after leaving work and began to shiver and had a feeling of dizziness. I thought at first that perhaps I was imagining things after reading about all the possible side effects. But then there was no doubt that my body was reacting. My temperature rose to 38.6 degrees. I started aching and not just from my last yoga session. It was unpleasant, but I was glad because it meant that I had received the vaccine and not a placebo. I took some paracetamol, recorded the symptoms in the app and went to bed.

The next day, my temperature had gone down to 37. A day later, I had no more symptoms at all. In three weeks, I'll be getting the next shot. Apparently, antibodies start forming 42 days after the first injection. However, it remains to be seen whether they will really be able to prevent COVID-19.

This article has been adapted from German.

https://www.dw.com/en/taking-a-trial-sh ... a-55817820
#15142396
@Atlantis People like Sivad are scared shitless and they follow anyone who plays to their fears and dark thoughts. It's like what Michael Moore said about the media using fear to control people. I believe that fear can make us all stupid.

Very intelligent people do not let interfere with their life.

I will get vaccinated as soon as I can. I want immunity against the virus. More people should get vaccinated then the economy can start recovering.
#15142404
I think scepticism is justified with covid-19 vaccines.

They're being developed in record time and there's huge pressure to use them ASAP.

Personally I think they're save, but I won't call anybody a nutter for wanting to wait.
#15142413
ThirdTerm wrote:The next day, my temperature had gone down to 37. A day later, I had no more symptoms at all. In three weeks, I'll be getting the next shot. Apparently, antibodies start forming 42 days after the first injection.


Yes, as I said, most symptoms appear immediately after the shot is set and disappear after a day or two. That happens with most vaccines.

Interestingly, the symptoms after the 2nd shot tend to be more severe than after the 1st shot. The reason for that is that people acquire a degree of immunity with the 1st shot which reacts to the 2nd shot as if to an infection. In other words, the vaccine is effective.

The 2nd shot is necessary to acquire a high degree of immunity. After the 1st shot, immunity is at 52%, and after the 2nd it is 95%. Normally, regulatory agency require a vaccine to be at least 70% effective.

However, it remains to be seen whether they will really be able to prevent COVID-19.


That, we know for certain by now. The Pfizer/Biontech vaccine provides 95% protection against Covid-19, which is surprisingly high (compared to flu vaccines). It is even 100% effective against severe infections because of the 22,000 people that got the vaccine in the 3rd phase, there were only a few mild infections.
#15142415
I understand the reluctance. Months ago I was against getting vaccinated. But I have had time to consider it. I realize that a vaccine is needed protection.

And health officials like Fauci have been open with the public and have said that the vaccine has been developed so quickly because of the resources and research that went into the technology. They have 10 years at least of research on the formula for the new vaccines. These are not like the old granddaddy vaccines from the 1900s. It is new technology.

Times change and we must change too. Fast is not always bad. If we enjoyed slow so much, why do we all want cars? What is wrong with riding in a horse carriage to work? Anyone want to go muck out stalls for the team of horses?

Geez! For such a wealthy country, the US can be so conservative and resistant to change. It feels like I'm surrounded by thousands of oldy moldy folks, I don't care if you're 60 or 22. You sound old and scared!
#15142419
MistyTiger wrote:I will get vaccinated as soon as I can. I want immunity against the virus. More people should get vaccinated then the economy can start recovering.


Before we get the vaccine, health care workers and the most vulnerable will be vaccinated. I expect it'll be our turn by March or April. By that time, at least 100 million people will have been vaccinated and most side-effects should be known. Until then, we'll have to hunker down, which isn't too hard in my nook of the woods. It would be too stupid to get infected now after having been careful for so long. It would be a bit like getting shot in the last days before armistice.
#15142438
Sivad wrote:Four trial volunteers who got Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine developed Bell's palsy - but FDA denies that the temporary facial paralysis was caused by the shot

Four people who received Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine in its clinical trial developed Bell's palsy, a form of temporary facial paralysis

The alarming but rare side effect was revealed in a release of detailed data from the FDA ahead of its Thursday meeting when regulators will vote on approval

FDA scientists ruled the side effect was not likely caused by the shot, but said they would likely recommend that Pfizer closely monitor recipients

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... palsy.html


Why are you casting doubt on Trump's vaccines? You have Trump Derangement Syndrome!
MAGAMAGAMAGA
#15142439
Atlantis wrote:Before we get the vaccine, health care workers and the most vulnerable will be vaccinated. I expect it'll be our turn by March or April. By that time, at least 100 million people will have been vaccinated and most side-effects should be known. Until then, we'll have to hunker down, which isn't too hard in my nook of the woods. It would be too stupid to get infected now after having been careful for so long. It would be a bit like getting shot in the last days before armistice.


I agree. Healthcare and first responders are most vulnerable. They need to be alive to help in this deadly fight. I am doing my best to be careful, vigilant and even overly cautious. My area sees traffic from several states. NH is a tourist attraction. Every now and then I see plates from Texas or Florida. I avoid crowds and the grocery shopping is done early in the day to avoid most shoppers. We do not stay in the store longer than 10 minutes.

We should have moved to a more remote town, but my mother wanted us kids to be near a more urban area for school and jobs.

But the good thing is, since the local hospital expanded years ago, that means more medical professionals in the area. We need them at a time like this. So far, NH hospitals are not near full capacity. We have a Republican governor but he has been very open to advice from the state epidemiologists, scientists and other medical professionals. So the virus has not hit nearly as hard as in the midwest.
#15142440
Unthinking Majority wrote:I want this shit injected directly into my eyeball.

Funny, before I read this, I thought to myself.

I want this shot right on my dick.
#15142441
Unthinking Majority wrote:I want this shit injected directly into my eyeball.

Rancid wrote:Funny, before I read this, I thought to myself.

I want this shot right on my dick.

I don't know which one of you is weirder.
#15142445
Seems my hospital is getting it soon. My medical director asked the group who wanted it, I volunteered. If I start defending trump, it is because they put a mind-control microchip inside my vaccine, at that point please offer my apologies to QatzelOk and tell him he was right 8) :lol:
#15142499
The Australian vaccine has been returning false positives to HIV, so that’s hit a bit of a hurdle :|
#15142504
@ness31 Can you please source this claim? I think it's BS.
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