[noemon]

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=balan ... s/historic

Compulsive liars getting called out for posting eye-popping compulsive lies despite repeated requests for a simple link to your source.

You posted this image:

Where is your source?

You claimed that your elexon link contains data for the past decade. You lied as proven. It doesn't.

You claimed that your unsourced image cites elexon, you lied again as proven. Your image does not cite anything and does not even contain the headline in your image about what the heck it even is.

And despite now more than 10 requests to post the link to your image, you are still squirming.

Why are you not posting the source to your image? You claimed that this is the average wholesale price for 1 whole year between 2018-2019. But even your own unsourced image does not even say that this is what you claim it is.

[BeesKnee5]

10 year one Statista: https://www.statista.com/statistics/589 ... prices-uk/

All these complaints about source while the sources provided agree.

UK has had an average wholesale price between £40 and £60MWh for almost the entire period prior to COVID

So to argue that the average for 2018/2019 is fake news just looks daft.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/589 ... prices-uk/

Just like aguing the Elexon portal does not have 10 years of electricity data because it's not held in the same place as current data on the website.

[noemon]

UK has had an average wholesale price between £40 and £60MWh for almost the entire period prior to COVID

The period prior to COVID is 01/01/19-01/01/20, not 2018-2019.

The average during 19-20 is much lower than that.

So to argue that the average for 2018/2019 is fake news just looks daft.

To post an image without a source is what is daft. If you cannot substantiate it, you shouldn't be posting it.

Just like aguing the Elexon portal does not have 10 years of electricity data because it's not held in the same place as current data on the website.

It's not in the link you provided, nor in any other link that you have provided since.

So again, it's a figment of your imagination until you substantiate it with a link as a source.

[BeesKnee5]

So to be clear.

The period in your chart spanning 2013 to the end of 2019 is not the period prior to COVID.

And the typical wholesale price during that period was not £40-£60MWh.


Is that your claim?

[noemon]

I am not following your twisted logic at all.

Where is the source for this image too? Where is the headline?

[BeesKnee5]

I am not following your twisted logic at all.

Where is the source for this image too? Where is the headline?

It's not remotely twisted.

The source you provided shows that the average wholesale price in 2019 was between £40-£60MWh.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/589 ... prices-uk/

So why do you think it was significantly lower when your source shows that to not be the case.

[noemon]

It's not remotely twisted.

The source you provided shows that the average wholesale price in 2019 was between £40-£60MWh.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/589 ... prices-uk/

So why do you think it was significantly lower when your source shows that to not be the case.

Because your argument about the righteousness of the wind producers demanding higher prices has been thoroughly debunked.

So, it's no longer relevant.

The only thing that remains is for you to show the rest of us the source of your images to validate them both, it does not matter what we might imagine the average to be by looking at the graph from Statista that I provided, you have provided 2 very particular figures for 2 time periods which require validation.

Where is the source for your 2 images?

[BeesKnee5]

So you think pre covid average price plus inflation is unreasonable.

Why is £65MWh unreasonable when gas generation is pushing prices to £120MWh ?

This is something you are yet to justify .

[noemon]

So you think pre covid average price plus inflation is unreasonable.

Why is £65MWh unreasonable when gas generation is pushing prices to £120MWh ?

This is something you are yet to justify .

I already did.

You and these wind producers claim that it takes £20 per MWh to produce, so how is £70 more justified than £40?

It is not a legal requirement that long-term wind energy contracts follow the market price of gas. Especially not in such a volatile geopolitical environment of the UK's own choosing severely affecting that price as discussed.

This is simply a coy for wind-producers to impose higher electricity prices and drive retail electricity prices higher. "Green energy" is supposed to liberate us from all that volatility, not take advantage of them to charge as much. Gas trading at £40 during the normal times and wind power costing £20 according to you and these producers means that £40 is a very fair price indeed.

Still waiting on the source for your images.

[BeesKnee5]

.
You and these wind producers claim that it takes £20 per MWh to produce, so how is £70 more justified than £40?

It is not a legal requirement that long-term wind energy contracts follow the market price of gas. Especially not in such a volatile geopolitical environment of the UK's own choosing severely affecting that price as discussed.
.

Your linked post using May 2020 during COVID, when oil and gas prices went negative as your baseline isn't proving anything other than cherry picking

There are a few things here.

Offshore Wind producers do not claim to be able to operate at £20Wh. I have never claimed this and niether have they. Offshore wind is more expensive than onshore.

Secondly, the £20MWh for onshore wind is OPEX so does not include CAPEX.

Two years ago the CfD for offshore wind accepted was £45MWh, this is index linked to inflation. No one is claiming wind generation should be tied to gas, but they are tied to inflation.


Wind farms being completed this year have CfD contracts that are now worth £75-£85MWh.

https://cfd.lowcarboncontracts.uk/cfd-r ... 2-HRN-106/

[Godstud]

Yes, it was great during the pandemic where no one could go anywhere for 2 fricken years. Those are the worst possible examples you can come up with. Troll harder.

If we all went electric, then the power grids would collapse. Most of them do not have even 25% of the electricity coming from renewables, as well. Canada, at almost 60% is an exception due to vast hydro-electric powerplants, a resources not every country has.

[noemon]

Your linked post using May 2020 during COVID, when oil and gas prices went negative as your baseline isn't proving anything other than cherry picking

Compulsive lying kicks in again.

My linked post does not mention "May 2020".

There are a few things here.

Correct, there are a few things of being impossible to discuss with a compulsive liar and using every single post to point out those compulsive lies.

[noemon]

[Godstud]

@noemon Climate change is the greatest tax money grab in existence right now. Carbon taxes(that are based on irrelevant or fabricated numbers) are raking in money for the rich politicians to spend on whatever they want. You can bet the rich have shares in those utility companies that are pulling in the the big $$$$.

[BeesKnee5]

Countries by share of electricity generated from gas

Italy 48%
UK 38%

Changes in gas prices on the global market affect you regardless of where you source your gas from.

[noemon]

Silly people claim that we need more renewables to de-couple from gas, when all renewable power stations require gas electricity for back up!

You couldn't really make up how silly people are and can be. Renewables require gas for back-up and require subsidies to switch the wind farms off and hence why the gas price is coupled to wind & solar, because no matter what, consumers pay the price for the renewable according to the price of its gas backup.

In the past 2 years, British taxpayers paid 806 million to switch off wind farms while backing them up with gas!

In the meantime, countries with big gas deposits pay a fraction of the price British consumers pay for electricity!

Troll is projecting again, due to his failure to understand that high gas prices today(due to carbon taxes mainly, Ukraine, Israel & Covid) are not a justification for even higher wind prices today.

This person is advertising on one hand his "amazing" Octopus electricity rate of 7.5p kwh for 6 hours at night and on the other hand he is justifying the wind consortium demanding 7.5p kwh from the government as a CfD, which means that by the time this electricity hits the market it will be at least double than what he is currently paying for retail!

There are so many things you can not really make up, yet we still hear them with hubristic vanity and arrogance.

Countries by share of electricity generated from gas

Italy 48%
UK 38%

Compulsion kicks in again. Guy is trying to make a global connection between the amount of gas used for electricity and the electricity price paid.
He claims the more gas reliant the grid the higher the price.

Reality:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/shar ... ricity-gas

Mexico 57% gas grid(70% of it imported), 10 cents of a dollar for electricity in March 2023 contrasted to 46 cents in the UK 38% gas grid(only 50% of its gas imported) and 56 cents for Italy.

Of course, let's not even go to the Middle East! But why not? the UK can be self-reliant on gas if it so desires.

Or shall we talk about the ones reliant on coal that are somehow also far cheaper than the UK by a whole lot?

[BeesKnee5]

Imagine not understanding that the amount a generator is paid is the average over the period and not just the price between midnight and 6 am.

Gas generators rely on the peak prices in the morning and evening to offset the losses during off peak.

As storage increases, they will lose that money they cream off the top.

[noemon]

As storage increases, they will lose that money they cream off the top.

Guy advertises his Octopus prices on this forum for weeks.

Guy pays 7.5p per kwh to charge his car during 6 hours in the early morning. Then it shoots up to 20 & 30p kwh.

Wind farms are demanding 7.5p kwh as a CfD contract from the government.

Guy's 7.5p kwh in the 6 morning early hours becomes 15p per kwh as the government is now paying 7.5p kwh to buy that electricity from the wind farm and not the guy from Octopus retail anymore.

Guy continues to insist that this is the right way of doing business in this country while openly arguing for the doubling of his own energy cost.

As fantasism takes over guy departs from reality and we are now in a world where consumers are openly arguing for higher electricity prices to validate their virtue-signalling. <------------------- We are here!

[BeesKnee5]

.

Guys 7.5p kwh in the 6 morning early hours becomes 15p kwh as the government is now paying 7.5p kwh to buy that electricity from the wind farm and the guy from Octopus anymore.
.

You really don't understand the system.

Government doesn't pay an extra £75MWh. The CfD caps the amount the wind farm recieves from the market at £75MWh

If wholesale prices are £90MWh then the government recieves £15MWh from the wind farm, if the price is £60MWh then the government pays £15MWh.

[noemon]

While we shut down our gas production so that gas supply can fall and consequently its price increases even more & retail electricity prices shoot up even higher, the rest of the world:

If wholesale prices are £90MWh then the government recieves £15MWh from the wind farm, if the price is £60MWh then the government pays £15MWh.

75mwh is the retail price you pay today at Octopus, justifying this price as a guaranteed wholesale price which means double that at a minimum by the time it reaches your home, is you openly arguing that you want to pay double than what you are currently paying!

If you want to be so generous, go ahead and commit suicide on your own, no need to drag the rest of us down with you.