[BeesKnee5]

7.5p/kWh at night and 30p/kWh during the day is what I pay the supplier.

£75MWh CfD is what the wind farm is paid, whether it supplies power during the day or night.

There is no doubling.

[noemon]

7.5p/kWh at night and 30p/kWh during the day is what I pay the supplier.

£75MWh CfD is what the wind farm is paid, whether it supplies power during the day or night.

There is no doubling.

How will you pay 7.5p kwh when the wind farm is paid 7.5p kwh to produce that energy?

Who will pay the suppliers that buy their energy from the producers, the sub-contractors, the carbon taxes, the windfall taxes, the energy agents and so on and forth?

Combined with the reduction on gas production, you will be paying more than double in fact.

Did you know that £75mwh is so high, that the government is applying windfall taxes beyond that figure even on "renewable" generators?

Did you know that £75 mwh is 1.5 times greater than the average price of electricity in the past decade according to gov.uk? Even when including the carbon taxes that are missing from wind? Once the carbon taxes are excluded from gas to give us its actual real price the difference is around 3 times greater a price for wind(£75mwh) than for Gas(£25-30 mwh).

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -factsheet



You have already argued that:

1) You want to pay double the electricity rate you are currently paying, you consider this "fair based on inflation", and never mind that your electricity prices are already doubled from 2-3 years ago. According to your logic, you are happy with doubling the price every 2-3 years or so.
2) You want to drive electricity prices even further up by stopping gas production in this country altogether despite the fact that gas is required as back-up for "renewables".
3) You want to pay around 1 billion every 2 years to shut off wind turbines in curtailment costs. Pay them to do nothing.
4) You want to pay green levies on your electricity bill. And you want the levy taxes to apply on carbon taxes + the price instead of only the actual price of an item.
5) You are happy paying the second highest price of electricity in the world.

In the meantime, 60% of urban dwellers in the UK have no off-street parking, and when they do not have off-street parking they have to pay for public chargers(I wonder what is the environmental and C02 cost of adding all these public chargers that are so expensive very few actually use them unless in urgent need) to charge their cars. Not 7.5p kwh in Octopus anymore, but 64p kwh for the slow ones that take hours and 85p for the fast ones that take 30-60 minutes to charge. Now 85p is about 30% more expensive to refill your car with electricity than it is to refill it with petrol. 64p is about the same as petrol & diesel but the time required to reach the place, leave the car, collect again while waiting for hours must also be accounted for. Time is money after all.



Imagine how many of these poor souls with no off-street parking exist around the world in places like New York, Beijing, Athens, Rome, Berlin.

Today:


The future:

[BeesKnee5]

How does an EV actually perform after 100,000 miles.


And what the future of kerbside charging actually looks like
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-67485414

[BeesKnee5]

Great little video on the amount of energy used to extract oil

[noemon]

Both of the past 2 videos are commercials.

The last one is particularly funny as it does not even mention the energy required to extract and process lithium which is far greater than the energy required to extract & process oil or gas and as if that were not enough, lithium extraction causes even more environmental damage in the local ecosystems and lithium recycling is near-impossible.

All of these we already discussed extensively in this here thread.

[ingliz]

Ban private cars,

Expand public transport,

and

People should get used to walking.

[late]

Ban private cars,

Expand public transport,

and

People should get used to walking.

Things are going to change, and the cost of having a car is expected to go up.

But look at what is happening in Europe...

While Amsterdam is the leader, cities across Europe are transforming themselves into places where you don't need a car.

In America, in addition to all the other benefits, walking and cycling make people healthier. So it's a win/win/win/win for us. Assuming we are ever able to find 2 brain cells to rub together.

[Pants-of-dog]

Ban private cars,

….with exceptions for ambulances , fire trucks, refrigerated food and medicine vehicles, and people who use a wheelchair.

Expand public transport,

and

People should get used to walking.

Very much so.

[wat0n]

Things are going to change, and the cost of having a car is expected to go up.

But look at what is happening in Europe...

While Amsterdam is the leader, cities across Europe are transforming themselves into places where you don't need a car.

In America, in addition to all the other benefits, walking and cycling make people healthier. So it's a win/win/win/win for us. Assuming we are ever able to find 2 brain cells to rub together.

America can do it too. You don't really need to own a car in NYC or Chicago, for example - if you live in the city at least.

[late]

America can do it too.

You don't really need to own a car in NYC or Chicago, for example - if you live in the city at least.

No doubt.

Pretty much everywhere needs to improve their mass transit, even NYC. But if you look at places that actually are bike friendly, it's not hard to see we have a long ways to go.

The place to start is with the zoning, you can't have a European style walkable city with our goofy zoning.

[BeesKnee5]

Interesting that Lithium is now a fuel.

I didn't know that.

How much electricity is required to extract and refine

https://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/14/how ... an-evs-do/

[noemon]

Semantics does not change the fact that the average car needs to burn the equivalent fuel of around 100k km to break even with a Tesla lithium battery that is standing idle!

Once you account for the damage to the ecoystem by lithium mining, non-recycling of lithium and the mirroring required to keep wind farms on, the environmental cost makes it even more ludicrous.

1 electric car at 0 miles contains the equivalent emissions of a a petrol car at around 100k miles all accounted for as we proved beyond any doubt already.

That makes your commercial pure propaganda.

[BeesKnee5]

Comparing 8kg of lithium to 10,000 gallons of fuel is semantics.

I'm learning new things every day.


https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/us ... h-domestic

[late]

I've been saying this is all transitional technology for over 20 years..

We're developing better batteries, a decade from now batteries will be better and cheaper and lithium will be forgotten.

[noemon]

Comparing 8kg of lithium to 10,000 gallons of fuel is semantics.

Comparing them is not semantics. You 're confused. Not comparing them for their emission impact is what is semantic acrobatics.

Are you going to start chasing your own tail again?

A Tesla battery is dirtier(in CO2 impact) than a petrol car running for around 100k miles.

Your commercial video is propaganda.

I'm learning new things every day.

It's doubtful, you spent numerous pages chasing your own tail trying to argue otherwise, and now you come back fresh for round 23 after a hiatus, it's quite evident that you cannot learn something but merely parrot.

[noemon]

Things not looking good for electric car makers as honeymoon growth is slowing down, the usual suspect who is admittedly invested on higher energy prices is back at it as green investments nosedive while farmers are shutting the EU down due to the lunacy of "green" policies, and Labour totally ditched its "green pledges".

To hear him speak, you would think Volvo Cars’ Scottish chief executive Jim Rowan is very much an electric vehicle crusader.

Standing beside the company’s new EX30 as he unveiled the Swedish carmaker’s full-year results on Thursday, Rowan said Volvo was leading “a paradigm shift for us and for our entire industry”, boasting that only Tesla had stronger profit margins on sales of electric cars.

But that enthusiasm apparently no longer extends to Polestar, Volvo’s dedicated electric marque.

On Thursday, Volvo said it would no longer provide financial support to Polestar and would look at offloading some of its 48pc stake in the company to other shareholders, including China’s Geely. (Most of the rest of Polestar is already owned by Geely chairman Eric Li.)

The news is the latest blow to Polestar, an early mover in electric cars that has struggled to keep up with premium rivals such as Tesla and which remains heavily loss-making despite its cars receiving critical acclaim.

It is also the latest rupture in the electric vehicle industry. Battery-powered cars were once predicted to dominate the vehicle market by the end of this decade, but their sense of inevitability has faded in recent months as sales slow and as targets have been pushed back.

Electric vehicle (EV) sales are expected to decline for the first time in seven years in 2024 in Germany, Europe’s biggest car market, and Renault earlier this week scrapped plans to spin-off its EV unit, Ampere, blaming a lack of strong interest from investors and a slowdown in sales.

“There is a bigger-picture story here. After a period of growth, interest in EVs isn’t as strong as it once was,” says Peter Wells, the director of the Centre for Automotive Industry Research at Cardiff University. “There is a loss of momentum in the market.”

Sales of electric cars in the UK flatlined last year and used prices plummeted, raising questions about their residual value. Globally, sales rose by 31pc, according to market research firm Rho Motion, but this compared to 60pc growth the prior year.

Just as driver interest is moderating, competition is heating up. The market has become increasingly cut-throat as low-priced Chinese manufacturers have expanded internationally, sparking price wars in the US and Europe.

Last week, Tesla’s shares fell by 12pc after the company warned that growth would be “notably lower” in 2024 than shareholders had become accustomed to.

The Polestar name dates back to a Swedish motorsport team in the mid Nineties but was acquired by Volvo in 2015, five years after the Scandinavian car company was sold to Geely.

It originally served as a prototyping station for Volvo concept cars but was spun out as a separate electric car brand in 2017 as a joint venture between Volvo and Geely.

This year was a peak for electric car optimism – it was the year Theresa May introduced the 2035 ban on new petrol and diesel cars (later moved to 2030 by Boris Johnson before Rishi Sunak reversed the move last year).

Its first model, the Polestar 1 sports car, was released two years later, followed by the £45,000 Polestar 2 in 2020.

In 2022, the company went public in New York at a $20bn (£16bn) valuation. It was one of a clutch of electric carmaker IPOs, many of them start-ups that had yet to sell a vehicle. At the time, Polestar’s chief executive Thomas Ingenlath distanced the company from those upstarts, predicting profitability within three years.


But so far, there are few signs of that. Profit has remained elusive, with the company losing $730.9m in the year to the end of September.

The company delayed the release of its next vehicle, the Polestar 3, last year and while sales continue to climb, growth has slowed down. Last year, the company cut delivery targets from 80,000 cars to 70,000 and then 60,000. It eventually delivered 54,600 vehicles.

Volvo, which continues to own a 48.3pc stake, has financially supported the company, including with an $800m loan in 2022.

Other backers have not kept the faith. Shares have fallen by more than 80pc in the last 18 months, putting the company’s market value below $4bn.

“Polestar is an expensive car and a new brand, that combination is quite a difficult one to sustain in a very competitive part of the market,” says Wells. “The European prestige manufacturers want to be in that market. It is largely sustained by corporate buyers but there is only so much corporate buying that can go on and the retail market is harder to reach.”

Polestar’s long decline


Polestar has also struggled to make up ground on Tesla, the market leader when it comes to high-end EVs. Decades of development have helped Tesla to drive down manufacturing costs. Polestar, which produces its cars at Volvo and Geely factories, does not have the same luxury, Wells says.

Meanwhile, Volvo’s in-house electric car business has also faced setbacks. Issues delayed the release of new cars last year and just 16pc of its vehicles were electric last year. Volvo remains a way off its 50pc target for 2025 and meeting that goal will require more investment, meaning the company is no longer willing to fund Polestar.

Rowan only had optimistic words about the electric vehicle brand on Thursday. “It’s a natural evolution that they spread their wings. They go and get their own funding and become a more independent company,” he said, adding that the companies will continue to work on production and that Volvo will remain a major Polestar shareholder.

Despite this assurance, and Geely’s insistence that it would “continue to provide full operational and financial support”, Polestar’s shares fell by 14pc on Thursday, hitting a new low.

Meanwhile, shares in Volvo Cars, which had traded at all-time lows, jumped by 26pc. Rowan may insist the relationship is simply becoming more arms length, but investors celebrated what looked like a break-up.

[JohnRawls]

Things not looking good for electric car makers as honeymoon growth is slowing down, the usual suspect who is admittedly invested on higher energy prices is back at it as green investments nosedive while farmers are shutting the EU down due to the lunacy of "green" policies, and Labour totally ditched its "green pledges".

Green policies are not lunacy though. Some of them are and electric cars by themselves are not lunacy but a developing technology. It is pretty developed by the way considered to what we had before but not fully there yet since nobody even was able to produce an affordable electric vehicle of reasonable size and reasonable comfort compared to gasoline/diesel.

[noemon]

They appear to be total lunacy, we are collectively suffering from inflation and we are doubling our energy prices with green tarrifs, subsidies, balancing costs, to sustain a myth.

We are at the same time offering billions to farmer, livestock producers to ditch their farms because cows fart too much CO2, at a time when fertiliser costs are through the roof driving our primary sector and food prices into oblivion.

One by one governments across the west and even Labour are ditching their "green" religion pledges.

Consumers and the market should decide what kind of new technologies are mature enough and not expensive industrial strategies that lead to nowhere.

[Godstud]

The power grids cannot handle all the EVs that they plan on having, despite the lies they like to tell, in order to sell you these very expensive vehicles($53,000 in Canada puts them in luxury car price range... unaffordable to most). The governments get their cut, so don't worry about them.

The "Green" religion is as bad as the "Woke" one, and it's going to fail in the face of reality.

Carbon Taxes are lies to get more money from people.

[late]

Carbon Taxes are lies.

Nope.

"Research shows that carbon taxes effectively reduce emissions.[8] Many economists argue that carbon taxes are the most efficient (lowest cost) way to tackle climate change.[9][10][11][12][13] Seventy-seven countries and over 100 cities have committed to achieving net zero emissions by 2050.[14][8] As of 2019, carbon taxes have been implemented or scheduled for implementation in 25 countries,[15] while 46 countries put some form of price on carbon, either through carbon taxes or carbon emission trading schemes.[16]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#:~:text=A%20carbon%20tax%20is%20a,like%20more%20severe%20weather%20events.