[Suska]

[youtube]Fgh4uy5A-lI[/youtube]
[youtube]PzxfDMXgGD4[/youtube]
interesting stuff
The XM25

After years of development, the XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System, about the size of a regular rifle, has now been deployed to US units on the battlefields of Afghanistan, where the Army expects it to be a "game-changer" in its counterinsurgency operations.
"For well over a week, it's been actively on patrols, and in various combat outposts in areas that are hot," said Lieutenant Colonel Chris Lehner, program manager for the XM25.
The gun's stats are formidable: it fires 25mm air-bursting shells up to 2,300 feet (700 meters), well past the range of most rifles used by today's soldiers, and programs them to explode at a precise distance, allowing troops to neutralize insurgents hiding behind walls, rocks or trenches or inside buildings.

game changer?

[killim]

Obviously not. Look at the price, the weight, the ammunition, the extremely complex handling etc.

[Thunderhawk]

The gun itself seems to be a grenade launcher with integrated optics and smart rounds. The really interesting aspects are the smart round and the integration, a thought I had when I read about this kind of integration and smart round in Popular Science a decade ago. Which leads me to think: 10 year development time?! This strikes me as rather slow for developing and integrating one new piece of technology with existing technology.

[killim]

HK had this technology as i was a grunt a decade ago. I think the time was needed to make it Joe-proved.

[Igor Antunov]

game changer?

More highly expensive, highly complex, high tech weapons to combat cave dwellers with kalashnikovs? Would you need star trek levels of tech before their defeat becomes assured?

The most powerful weapon against a religiously inspired guerilla opponent is taking away his support from the local populace, take that away and you take away his endless recuritment pool and supplies. It seems the US is going about this the wrong way.

[War Angel]

Is this more of the American way of countering complicated situations, and compensating for improper training with overly-sophisticated technology?

[MB.]

This is another module derived from the failed OICW program. I suppose all the spin-offs sort of justified the program in the end (automatic precision grenade launchers, simplified and modular automatic carbines and rifles, rugged miniature electro-optics, and so on).

HK had this technology as i was a grunt a decade ago

That is because HK won the OICW bid.

I read about this kind of integration and smart round in Popular Science a decade ago.

That is because the OICW system was a failure. There were two reasons for this: firstly, the system was too heavy because it had to incorporate a 5.56 carbine because the grenade launcher would kill your friends in close combat; and secondly, the Soviet Union collapsed resulting in a massive fire-power surplus making the system redundant. You will notice that the system has been re-branded as a 'smart weapon' to be used against 'terrorists in cover' rather than as an infantry equalizer in an overwhelming Soviet mechanized offensive. This is how the Military-Industrial Complex operates: you get what you get even if you don't need it because the millions have already been spent.

I always appreciate seeing the amnesiac media swallow whatever the military sells them.

[Suska]

Thank you MB, interesting information.

[Cookie Monster]

Like Killim said this technology has been around for some time.

It's been around almost a decade but one of the more impressive new developments in small arms is the corner shot weapon. It is currently produced by a few countries among which Israel, South Korea and Pakistan. And it is very suitable for the army in urban combat and for paramilitary units in special operations or law enforcement.

Here is a video of a Korean version:
[youtube]vFJ-2X5gOFk[/youtube]

[War Angel]

The CornerShot is an Israeli design. Seemingly effective, it is actually:

1) Too cumbersome.
2) Too expensive.
3) Can be easily replaced by fitting a camera on a stick\rifle. Hell, even optic fibers or a mirror would do.

The IDF doesn't use it, as far as I know. We developed it for lesser forces.

[InterestedInPolitics]

Is this more of the American way of countering complicated situations, and compensating for improper training with overly-sophisticated technology?

You are referring to "machine dependence" WA. Being machine dependent is no way to win a war. No amount of firepower and technology can ever compensate for a lack of tactical proficiency. It boils down to the man, not machines, weapons, technology or firepower. Human beings win wars, not machines.

[War Angel]

Human beings win wars, not machines.

Humans who know how to properly use well-designed machines win wars. Humans with no machines or silly humans with poorly-implemented machines do not.

[InterestedInPolitics]

Humans who know how to properly use well-designed machines win wars. Humans with no machines or silly humans with poorly-implemented machines do not.

What about an enemy who uses good tactics, maneuver? Like, when faced with overwhelming firepower, he retreats and then double back as a feint to where you can't use your firepower and weapons (except maybe a knife)? You would then have to be skilled at hand to hand combat and if you are not skilled at hand to hand combat, because you depend too much on firepower, you won't be going home alive. So, if you fight a smart enemy who knows how to circumvent firepower and technological advantages, it is incumbent on soldiers to be highly tactically proficient in order to complete the nation's objectives, fight and win. Armies or enemies who do not have as much money or technology or firepower available will depend more on infantry and sappers, make sure they are more tactically proficient to make up for the fact they don't have firepower or technology available. So, there is no substitute for tactical proficiency for any army, no matter how much firepower and technology they have available.

[Suska]

Sgt. Espera: (having just killed his first enemy) I don't feel nothing. Is this how true warriors feel?
Sgt. Colbert: Don't fool yourself. We're not being warriors out here. They're just using us as machine operators, semi-skilled labor.

- Generation Kill

Why do you think HMVEE's are boxy? They stack.

[Smilin' Dave]

Like, when faced with overwhelming firepower, he retreats and then double back as a feint to where you can't use your firepower and weapons (except maybe a knife)?

My overwhelming firepower comes in the form of a plane or drone. Now your terribly clever fighter is restricted to the most dense and inhospitable terrain. Silly technology bound me has now dictated the battlefield and likely rendered your forces irrelevant. Not to mention while messing around your knife fighters probably took casualties, harming morale. My morale is uneffected, I've lost nothing. Saying tactics always trumps technology is the height of ridiculous.

[War Angel]

Having reviewed the clips - this is just a grenade launcher launching timed grenades, and you can set the timer. Nothing more.

I'm in awe.

Seriously, work up some decent body armour that is both light and effective, or a new type of round that packs the punch of a 0.5" and weighs the same as a 5.56mm... or just decent MREs, really.

[InterestedInPolitics]

*delete*

[Nattering Nabob]

Having reviewed the clips - this is just a grenade launcher launching timed grenades, and you can set the timer. Nothing more.

I'm in awe.

Someone is around the corner of a building and I can use a laser sight and set the grenade to go off 1 meter past that corner and I fire and it explodes beside the guy...

That's pretty awesome...

[War Angel]

Someone is around the corner of a building and I can use a laser sight and set the grenade to go off 1 meter past that corner and I fire and it explodes beside the guy...

That's pretty awesome...

Yeah - still just timing a grenade. I also wonder what kind of damage such a little munition would do at such a range... could injure, I suppose. Or it could just explode, exposing your location, and not doing a whole lot of damage.

[InterestedInPolitics]

War Angel knows what he is talking about. I wouldn't put too much faith in this contraption at all. Technology is nice, but it's not what is most important to being a good soldier.