[Rilzik]

Well they don't seem to but anything like the old commanche back in the 90's, but they seemed to be normal helicopters with added stealth characteristics.

It sure doesn’t look like any variant of the Black Hawk that I’ve seen. Maybe it’s a new stealth version of the bird or maybe it’s an entirely new class of chopper. It could be both stealthy and fast enough to evade Pakistani air defenses that were apparently scrambled during the operation. (See our earlier post on how the RQ-170 Beast of Kandahar may have helped jam Pakistani air defense networks.) This also begs the question, who flies it? Does it belong to the Army’s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment? Is it a secret Air Force Special Operations Command bird? Heck, maybe it’s a CIA chopper.

The possibility of a stealthy chopper being used in the raid explains why the Pakistani troops where in such a hurry to cover up all of the wreckage with blankets and cart if off so quickly. Who knows if this is the Pakistani cooperation White House officials said they received for the mission or if the PAF just scored a major tech boost.


Read more: http://defensetech.org/2011/05/03/secre ... z1LJbbgXj5
Defense.org

Follow the links below for pictures


http://defensetech.org/2011/05/03/secre ... aden-raid/

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... ed-in.html


In related Osama news

Did The Beast of Kandahar Help Kill Osama?

how did four helicopters, likely from the Army’s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, make their way inside Pakistan’s air defense intercept zone and carry out a 40-minute raid before the Pakistani military could react?

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2011/05/03/did-t ... z1LJdCsj7b
Defense.org


Does anyone know what type of radar and air defense systems Pakistan may be using?

[Typhoon]

Pakistan operates a mix of US, European and Chinese radar of various vintages, the problem for the network is not so much the aircraft as terrain. A low flying aircraft gets a lot of cover between say Tarbela Ghazi and Abbottabad. The beast could definately have been used to supply intelligence though it would have been harder for the air defence system to track at range.

[Igor Antunov]

A helicopter is slow and it's bulky and keep in mind this occured deep inside pakistan.

There were pakistani ISI participating in the operation, so they obviously didn't sneak the chopper into the country since they had pakistanis they could trust in the chopper or awaiting it on the ground or flying alongside them in another chopper or whatever.

I assume the american craft got damaged in the firefight at the compound, i don't believe the breakdown claims.

[U184]

They are saying it was a moded MH-60 Blackhawk, I do not see it.

This is a MH-60



This is the new chopper and from the look of it, it was made for speed and stealth.

[Typhoon]

This is a MH-60

Is it?

[Khalq]

Comanche (RAH-66) not Blackhawk.

[U184]

I had it listed wrong in my folder

Any clue as to what group the new chopper falls into?

[Igor Antunov]

It looks under-armed. Clearly not up to russian standards.

[U184]

Look at that rotor housing though, I bet it is a jet propulsion turbine fan with a gear selector, that allows it to go damn fast, then switch over to silent running. Perfect to get in and drop 5 seals and gear, then get out on the quick, one needs no weapons if one is never seen.

[Igor Antunov]

Osama bin Laden dead: hi-tech secret may end up in China

There are growing fears that top-secret stealth technology taken from the helicopter that crashed during the raid on the home of Osama bin Laden could be smuggled into China and cause a diplomatic row.

It has become clear that US special forces used a previously unseen stealth helicopter for the mission in order to evade Pakistani radar or being heard on the final approach to the home of the al-Qaeda terrorist.

The American troops used thermite grenades to destroy the helicopter’s main body but its rear section was left intact and taken away by the Pakistani military soon after the night raid on Monday. It is feared that if Islamabad refuses a request from Washington for the return of the tail section that the issue could turn into a diplomatic rift.

Relations are already fraught after the Seal Team Six raid entered Pakistan airspace apparently without permission and after the government was accused in some quarters of “harbouring” bin Laden.

It is believed that US Special Operations Command decided to give the operation the greatest chance of surprise by using the untested helicopters, probably modified Blackhawks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... China.html

[U184]

It is not nice to keep our toys, shit will get ugly if that goes anywhere but home.

[Rilzik]

Igor

That was my first thought. No doubt the Chinese and Russians will get their hands on pieces. Supposedly it's all in the manufacturing of the materials. I don't care anytime they get their hands on our shit it's bad, in my opinion.

Some people are saying that the stealth tech is F-117 type, but I doubt it is that old. The Chinese and Russians already have that stuff from the crash in Kosovo. I just have a hard time thinking this tech is that old.

It kind of pisses me off that we had our best guys in there and they let an entire section of the craft in near perfect condition go.

Any way here is a great website that has a better explanation then what I can give. They also have a bunch of other articles regarding the bird.

http://defensetech.org/2011/05/03/secre ... aden-raid/

Also they have a new video of the J-20 or whatever we are calling it nowadays.

[U184]

Assuming standard protocol was followed, the birds internal electronics were all set aflame as soon as they knew that it was a loss. So the only tech gain is that of the basic design and anyone seeing the pics has that.

[Rilzik]

And composite materials used.
I know a large part of the tech gap is construction techniques and building the materials which they won't have just from a sample. Having a sample of it has to be an advantage they hadn't had before though.

My understanding there is:

F-117 tech composite
B-2 composite
F-22 composite
JSF and a upgraded F-22 composite for leading edges and what not.

I'd be really pissed if we just pissed way some modern stealth composite.

[Igor Antunov]

The most valuable part of a stealth craft technologically speaking would be the outer material composition. Pakistan will use that for itself, and also sell that shit to the highest bidder after it's done scrutinizing it under a microscope.

[Typhoon]

I had it listed wrong in my folder

Could it be im not the only one with a folder on my HDD labelled military Its definately a transport of some kind, probably a special modification of the MH-60 as everyone is guessing. The rotor probably does more to reduce noise than the aircrafts radar cross section.

And composite materials used.

Since shaping is well understood the only gain would be in any radar adsorbant materials that are applied to the aircraft, it would have been very stupid to have used the same material as the JSF bodywork composite. Though there is no ju ju involved, its all based on published physics and chemistry with China more than capable of manufacturing similar materials, what will be interesting for them is looking at exactly what bands the US material adsorbs best at and how well so they will be able to model the performance of the materials against different radar.

Still I would put money that a X-Ray Photoelectron Spectrometer in China is going to be recieving a few extra samples in the near future...

[Piano Red]

You guys are really biting at straws here.

China and Russia aren't stupid. Anything gained from the wreckage recovered will only likely confirm their suspicions about the metallurgy techniques and design inspiration of the aircraft. Stealth tech isn't so new to the point where either one of them won't already know of the likely materials and tech that went into this helicopter and the outer covering.

The real thing about producing some knockoff version is how much money they're willing to spend into an R&D program that'd net them similar components.

The most valuable parts of that aircraft (it's avionics equipment and electronics package) went up in flames when the SEAL Team blew the thing up.