Japan's 5th GenFighter Demonstrator to Get FY12 Funding - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#13784034
JSW, 'Japan’s 5th GenFighter Demonstrator to Get FY12 Funding', Kyle Mizokami, 19 Aug 2011 wrote:Image
Mitsubishi Heavy Industry's ATD-X design for F-X competition

ATD-X, the fighter technology demonstrator that may or may not lead to a new class of fighters, will be funded in the Japanese government’s FY 2012 government budget. Here’s a translation of a Nikkan article, courtesy Twitter user _niten.

    As part of the Advanced Technology Demonstrator (ATD-X or “Shinshin”) project that will help develop fighter planes twenty years from now, the Ministry of Defense (MoD) plans to commission Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to development the airframe to as soon as within this financial year. In addition, funds for spare parts and maintenance materials totally approximately JPY 9 billion (roughly USD 117 million) look to be included in the draft requests for the FY 2012 budget which come out at the end of September. This effort will evaluate the operational effectiveness of each technological component, and will help make the successor to the F2 fighter plane a domestic effort.

    The ATD-X will not be deployed to units, but is a plane that will verify both the stealth ability to not be picked up on enemy radar, and the high kinetic performance which allows quick turns when traveling at low speed. No mission avionics or weapon systems such as missiles will be installed. Forecasts see a maiden flight in FY 2014, and flight tests in FY 2015-2016.

    From 2009 the MoD had charged Mitsubishi Heavy Industries with developing the manufacturing design, and as this has been completed the move is now to construction of the airframe. (jp link)

Note that this is a separate procurement program than the F-X program. F-X is designed to replace the F-4EJ Phantom with a 4.5/5 generation fighter bomber, the Eurofighter Typhoon, F-18 Super Hornet, or F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The article describes the ATD-X as a successor to the F2 fighter. This is likely a reference to ATD-X following F2 on the aircraft assembly line. In terms of replacing active duty planes, ATD-X will replace the F-15J in the air superiority and interceptor role.


The more you know.
#13784057
Why not? I don't think drones can replace manned fighters in the near future.


Maybe not for close air support where the visual identification by the pilot is important. The f-35 may still make sense in that context, the f-22 or other piloted stealth air superiority fighters are a waste of money (especially if you start the program now, until this fighter is in service 10-20 years will pass).
#13784096
Beren wrote:It's too late to begin a 5th gen programme, but it would be too early to start an UCAV project. They will have to hurry.

I don't think it's too late. Just like it's not too late for China to develop space technology that existed 50 years ago. I'm not supportive of Japanese military development though.
#13784221
I very much hope that the USA regrets its decision to sell F-22s to Japan, and that Japan produces a far better air superiority fighter. Also if they go ahead with this project they should propably go with the F-35 for the F-X as they can afford to have greater air interdiction capabilities at the expense of air superiority.
#13784585
That's sort of my point. My understanding is that Air Superiority Fighters are supposed to be able to double as Close Air Support Air Craft in a pinch, and vice versa. If you think CAS should be done by people, but AS shouldn't, you're sort of contradicting yourself.

Personally, I don't think any fighter should be done by drones. There's a time delay between when the pilot sends a command and when the craft executes. And that delay can be significant, since the pilots tend to be in Arizona, while making runs in Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya. That can be a difference of a few seconds. Or, enough to get the drone shot down. You could create a close in command center, but, it is an easier target for the enemy to destroy, and if it goes, you still lose the pilot (ie, the major reason we're moving towards drones), you still lose the plane, and you're down even more money from losing the command center.
#13784590
Chill wrote:Just like it's not too late for China to develop space technology that existed 50 years ago.

China needs to have her own space technology and China needs to have her own technology in general, because China wants to be a superpower, a sovereign pole in a multi-polar world. However, Japan doesn't and can't have the same ambitions and she could cooperate with the US very easily. I guess it would be cheaper and more efficient.
#13784773
Beren wrote:However, Japan doesn't and can't have the same ambitions and she could cooperate with the US very easily. I guess it would be cheaper and more efficient.

Well I'm sure Japanese's confidence in US protection has been declining for years. It has to be able to defend itself once US pulls out.
#13784833
I don't think the US will ever pull out, and as China becomes stronger and stronger I doubt Japan will be eager for not being protected by the US. Even Vietnam and the US happened to have a joint manoeuvre recently. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese felt like building up their own military industry.
#13784962
Beren wrote: I doubt Japan will be eager for not being protected by the US.

Japan will for sure want to be protected by the US forever. The problem is there is doubt whether US will live up to its promise. It's the distrust and sense of insecurity that motivates Japan in developing its own military industry.
#13785440
That's sort of my point. My understanding is that Air Superiority Fighters are supposed to be able to double as Close Air Support Air Craft in a pinch, and vice versa. If you think CAS should be done by people, but AS shouldn't, you're sort of contradicting yourself.


The f-22 is not supposed to do close air support at all, not even ground attacks. Close air support means taking out tanks and enemy positions on the ground, its not synonymous to the general air to ground role. The pilots eye is only necessary if its otherwise impossible to clearly identify a target. Computers are getting better and better at visual identification, its only a matter of time.

Personally, I don't think any fighter should be done by drones. There's a time delay between when the pilot sends a command and when the craft executes. And that delay can be significant, since the pilots tend to be in Arizona, while making runs in Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya. That can be a difference of a few seconds. Or, enough to get the drone shot down. You could create a close in command centre, but, it is an easier target for the enemy to destroy, and if it goes, you still lose the pilot (ie, the major reason we're moving towards drones), you still lose the plane, and you're down even more money from losing the command centre.


Drones will fly and attack autonomously in the case of an imminent threat, and even in standard operation.

Until pilots become obsolete they will fly in tandem with ucav's. We'll see f-35 flying with robotic wingmans.
#13785562
The f-22...


I'm not speaking strictly about the F-22, but the earlier post that Close Air Support should be done by piloted crafts, and air superiority should be done by drones.

The pilots eye is only necessary if its otherwise impossible to clearly identify a target. Computers are getting better and better at visual identification, its only a matter of time.


One glitch that results in a automatically piloted craft killing a bunch of its own people, and everyone is going to get a bad taste in their mouth, and the project is going to go down the tubes for a few decades. And even if not, I imagine that everyone and their mother would want to know how to reprogram or defeat the programming of such a craft.

Drones will fly and attack autonomously in the case of an imminent threat, and even in standard operation.


See above.

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