Are some of our defense systems too complex? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Military vehicles, aircraft, ships, guns and other military equipment. Plus any general military discussions that don't belong elsewhere on the board.

Moderator: PoFo The Lounge Mods

#14128417
Hey,

I watch a program a little while back, related to cold war and the defense systems that were used, and it seemed to me that all these new defense systems that countries want are SOOO complex that it seems they would never work in a war time environment.

I don't know much about current defense systems that the USA or Russia have, but can anyone tell me some new defense systems, that cost A LOT, and are extremely complex??

I notice certain countries are only wanting to acquire such systems that costs BILLIONS, for.... prestige, not for the actual use of them.

On a related note --> Can someone explain to me why a country like... Iran would want a nuclear weapon besides the international prestige of being country that has nuclear capailities? What could they possible do with a nuclear weapon? If they bomb Israel with a nuke, they simply do not have the forces to continue a sustained attack, and Iran would most likely end up being a hole in the ground. What am I missing here? Is there neorealist theory that a country like Iran would never use a nuclear weapon, because even though they seem crazy at times, they are not reckless enough to actually use one. ?
#14128586
Rancid wrote:Part of it all is psychology. Sometimes the weapons don't need to work all that well, or make a whole lot of sense.


Yes exactly!

But WOW, psychology costs a lot!!! :eek:

Can you think of a current weapons defense system that is insanely complex? USA or other countries?
#14128601
Lucko wrote:I watch a program a little while back, related to cold war and the defense systems that were used, and it seemed to me that all these new defense systems that countries want are SOOO complex that it seems they would never work in a war time environment.

I'm certain similar sentiments were voiced the first time someone put a vacuum tube-based computer into a vehicle ;)

The issue of complexity in such a device really comes down more to whether the system itself is workable (it a system fails because it gets a bit dirty, it wasn't necessary too complex but potentially just a bad design) and the general education/knowledge/training level of the troops that are intended to operate the device. On the latter note you might consider during WWI/WWII there would have been people getting trained to using machinery considerably more complex than anything they had ever used at home. I suppose there are also potential broader issues like longer maintenance cycles and whether 'fewer but better' always trumps 'quality of quantity' but again that can be a more complex question that the technnical complexity of the systems in question.

Lucko wrote:I don't know much about current defense systems that the USA or Russia have, but can anyone tell me some new defense systems, that cost A LOT, and are extremely complex??

Pretty much any existing or proposed 5th generation fighter plane. Highly sophistocated electronic systems (ie. the controls, the radar), various configurations for stealth and then stick the latest weapon systems on them.
#14129152
Well I think a modern military is a very complex thing but that obviously doesn't mean it would "break down" in the case of a war.

I was with the signal corps (i think thats the correct name) during my military service, which is responsible for setting up communication from troops in the field up to headquarters. Switzerland doesn't have satellites so it must rely on radio only, especially radiated beam for high capacity links.

The whole thing is essentially like a small internet, so if one node fails there are like a dozen others nodes who can take over. Complex but also relatively failsafe.
#14130681
I don't know much about current defense systems that the USA or Russia have, but can anyone tell me some new defense systems, that cost A LOT, and are extremely complex??


There are lots of examples but probably the best example of a very complex and expensive system that does not work particularly well would be some of the ballistic missile defense systems being fielded around the world today, the US Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD) being a good example.

While ballistic missile defense is probably the epitome of this the reliability of most weapons systems today is quite questionable, there are a lot of interesting reports from official sources for the availability and serviceability of different big ticket weapons systems. Nuclear weapons generally perform quite well (though not always the platforms they are employed from).

Even a proven system that fielded can develop issues later in life, the recent problem Alliant Techsystems had in manufacturing AMRAAM motors is a recent example, Raytheon had to switch its supplier to Norwegian Nammo. Apparently the problem was due to new environmental regulations requiring a change in the motor chemistry which resulted in an inferior product which failed tests.
Antifa again demonstrates its undemocratic nature

A serious question, @SSDR: would you see an "[…]

EU-BREXIT

Very well, what about the other similar claims in[…]

It is hard to believe that the Yemeni rebel group […]

Election 2020

Of course, a good economy and cutting red tape ar[…]