[immortallove]

What are the odds of someone creating a weapon that is the ultimate i.e small, concealable like a pistol, shotgun stopping power, long range, high ROF, accurate semi-auto, and a decent clip size?

Surely with a bit of tinkering with projectile aerodynamics, a good look at and refinement of propulsive explosives, and if weight was not a major factor, it could be done. Would be great if it could use either a belt or a drum mag too.

This is a seriously aimless thread but it's nice to hear prospective inventors give it a shot.

[Yeddi]

and if weight was not a major factor, it could be done.

When it comes to an infantry weapon weight is always the major factor.

[Falleen Prince Xizor]

i can't help but think an RPG is a pretty aweome weapon.

If a smaller, multi-barelled one was feasable..I certainly wouldn't dismiss it...

[Boondock Saint]

Thats what I have to say about this thread.

An ultimate weapon? Its a feckin gun man ... thats all. And shorter does not mean better. Lighter is ok but a certain bit of weight doesnt hurt just in case I have to butt stroke you (calm down people) ...

A multi-barreled RPG?

YEA! And while we are at it why dont we put two ... no three main guns on a tank!

[Truth-a-naut]

YEA! And while we are at it why dont we put two ... no three main guns on a tank!

Yeeehaw!

[immortallove]

Relax, Boondock, it's just a bit of fun.
I like talking about ways to blow sh*t up, sorry, if it doesn't appeal.

Shorter means manoeuverability in tight spaces i.e. the confines of a truck or apc, and concealability in e&e situations.

By

and if weight was not a major factor

i meant, and should have indicated, within reasonable limits (up to, oh.... 12kg?). Oops.

FPX, you've gotta consider thata multi-barreled RPG would need a clip, drum or belt the size of the operator to be feasible. ANd even then, one good burst would leave you defenceless until the next resupply. Of course, taking an existing 7.62mm round and filling it with high explosive would be cool, if it weren't so expensive and unreliable. Ignring that, one could have a belt-fed AR firing those, or bigger (.72 caliber or similar) with the M4's length, but it would have to have a reinforced rear end to take the larger propulsive charge required to attain decent velocity and accuracy. The kick would be huge.

Wow that's the most aimless post ever...
indeed, boondock.

[MB.]

The ultimate infantry weapon?

An Ak-103 with a laser designator attached instead of a Grenade Luancher. The designator would then be used by to call in ordinace strikes for overhead aircraft (arcilaytes or strike fighters). I can't think of any weapon that would beat the duribility and punch of the 103, coupled with the immediate ability to drop a 500 pound prescision guided bomb on your enemy targets.

[immortallove]

wow dude, you HAVE to post a shot of that. Have any specs, length, weight, caliber, velocity etc?

[MB.]

Stock grade AK-103 with space for an Aim Point and Launcher or Bayonet



http://www.ak-103.com/images/vid_ak103_hi.wmv

In action.



Ak-74 with launcher... the 103 is bassicaly the same except it's chambered for 7.62mm rounds instead of 5.45mm.

(and yes, I'm aware that pictures from an Airsoft site :-P )

So, lose the launcher, and slap on a Designator.

Anyway, stats:

7.62mm Kalashnikov Ammunition
3.3 kg Weight
30/40/75(drum) Magazines
600 RPM
1,000 Meters Effective Range
715 m/sec Muzzle Velocity
943 mm Overall Length

On that note, for those who are about to speak of accuracy and recoil- the 107 and 108 are equiped with a Balanced Automatic Gas System with cuts down on this issues during automatic fire.

[Boondock Saint]

The Russians are going back to the 7.62x39?

Why?

And its not an ultimate weapon, its just another infantry rifle.

[Maxim Litvinov]

The ultimate weapon is *love*. When will you people realise that?

Love can disarm even the most belligerent of foes and make them feel warm and fuzzy.

I love you, Boon.

[MB.]

It would be the ultimate infantry weapon with a laser designator- that's my point.

[immortallove]

Note the thread title, boondock. That's what we're looking for.

[immortallove]

And that's a pretty awesome concept, bill!

Is there a laser designation system designed for mounting on assault rifle mounts?
Consider the possibilities - No need for heavily-laden troops or spec ops forces. You've got your powerful, accurate, large-clipped, light, fast-firing weapon - plenty of firepower, AND you can take out tanks, buildings, emlpacements, entrenched infantry fro a huge distance with almost no addition to the weight of the package.

How is it that no army or unit that i know of uses this weapon-accessory combination?

[Yeddi]

How is it that no army or unit that i know of uses this weapon-accessory combination?

Because it's logical.

And because wars are funded by Coffin manufacturers.

[Attila The Nun]

Well...it would have to have a longer barrel, have to be able to go to bolt-action/semi-automatic/burst fire/full automatic, have to have a lasar scope, have to be able to use explosive rounds, have to be able to take a clip, belt, barrel, and box, have to be able to be good at sniping and in an urban enviornment. Has to have armor peircing rounds along with anti-personnel rounds, has to be accurate but powerful, has to be reliable, and has to be 300 things at once.

[Boondock Saint]

The ultimate weapon is *love*. When will you people realise that?

Love can disarm even the most belligerent of foes and make them feel warm and fuzzy.

I love you, Boon.

*Kicks Max*

Knock off you HIPPY!

And because wars are funded by Coffin manufacturers.

Its true.

[MB.]

Well...it would have to have a longer barrel, have to be able to go to bolt-action/semi-automatic/burst fire/full automatic, have to have a lasar scope, have to be able to use explosive rounds, have to be able to take a clip, belt, barrel, and box, have to be able to be good at sniping and in an urban enviornment. Has to have armor peircing rounds along with anti-personnel rounds, has to be accurate but powerful, has to be reliable, and has to be 300 things at once.

Well, in the Ak-103 you've got just about all that right there. However, really, I'd prefr simplicity over all these gadgets- Iron sights over Scopes since scopes get dirty and scratch in battlefield conditions, so there's really little reason to use them... an aim point however may very well be useful.

I can't think of any reason to need Bolt-action, and burst fire is only meant to reduce jamming- which the 103 doesn't have an issue with, so there's no need for it. The 103 can hold drum rounds, but there's no need for a belt since only machine guns need belts anyway, and we're talking about battle-rifles here. As for, "has to be accurate but powerful, has to be reliable" then the 103 is exactly what you're looking for. Powerful 7.62 rounds, coupled with accurate fire and unpresedented relability.

As for why no one has yet to build/use integrated laser designators is quiite simple- they don't exsist yet. In Afghanistan, Spec Ops forces used GPS locators to call in perscision strikes on anything from tanks to machine gun nests... in my opinion, we want that ability and we want it integrated and refined in simplicity to the averge soldier, and not just limited to Spec Ops forces. As you've rightly pointed out, that would give your soldier the ability to engage human targets with ease, but also the ability to destroy tanks and other emplacements... something never before seen in history.

I can't think of anything more dangerous then that.

[immortallove]

Yeddi wrote:

immortallove wrote:

How is it that no army or unit that i know of uses this weapon-accessory combination?

Because it's logical.

And because wars are funded by Coffin manufacturers.

I see.

Well...it would have to have a longer barrel, have to be able to go to bolt-action/semi-automatic/burst fire/full automatic, have to have a lasar scope, have to be able to use explosive rounds, have to be able to take a clip, belt, barrel, and box, have to be able to be good at sniping and in an urban enviornment. Has to have armor peircing rounds along with anti-personnel rounds, has to be accurate but powerful, has to be reliable, and has to be 300 things at once.

Well... long barrels make a weapon less useful in close quarters, because it cannot be manoeuvred in tight spaces and it take just that little bit longer to level at a target at very close range. So no long barrels, dude. 94cm is a little too long for my liking, but certainly not terrible.

Mr Bill wrote:

I can't think of any reason to need Bolt-action

There is one reason - when camouflaged at any decently long range, a sniper does not want to have brass ejected in addition to the muzzle flash. Attracts attention... sharp, lead-coated, unpleasant attention. That's why every major SWAT or Special Forces unit worht its salt uses bolt-action rifles, allowing for controlled removal of spent shells.

As you've rightly pointed out, that would give your soldier the ability to engage human targets with ease, but also the ability to destroy tanks and other emplacements... something never before seen in history.

I can't think of anything more dangerous then that.

Spooky.
But as we're all here because we like seeing shit blow up, if we could just ignore the death and horror the use of the 103-LD (My designation. You like?) would bring to a battle zone, I'd love to see this happen and see its power being demonstrated.

The mounted designator doesn't exist yet, but what about taking the laser part of the existing designator used by the more modern armies of the world, and mounting that on the side of the weapon, connected via bluetooth or similar technology to the rest of the unit in the soldier's kit. A bit of shrinking by techie types would mean that it is still less cumbersome than using the complete unit seperately. If the laser was side-mounted, then one could still have another accessory such as a grenade launcher mounted underneath the barrel. Best of all worlds, and still a relatively light bundle.

WWIII is going to be frickin spectacular if this stuff is in use.
But terrible of course... Oh dear oh dear...

[Attila The Nun]

Well, in the Ak-103 you've got just about all that right there. However, really, I'd prefr simplicity over all these gadgets- Iron sights over Scopes since scopes get dirty and scratch in battlefield conditions, so there's really little reason to use them... an aim point however may very well be useful.

Wanna try to snipe with iron sights only?

I can't think of any reason to need Bolt-action, and burst fire is only meant to reduce jamming- which the 103 doesn't have an issue with, so there's no need for it.

Bolt action is best for sniping, and long range combat (seeing how it's not so much how many rounds you can fire off in long-range warfare it's how many hit their mark. Also, burst fire is used for two things: to conserve ammo, and to obtain a better accuracy. Also I know at least the US Army has codes so you have to use machine-guns and assault rifles on burst fire to not waste bullets.

The 103 can hold drum rounds, but there's no need for a belt since only machine guns need belts anyway, and we're talking about battle-rifles here.

What if I wanted a continuous spread? That's part of an ultimate infantry weapon.