MIG 1.42 MFI "Raptor Killer" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Russkie
#832919
“The Russians never got out of the fighter-building business. They are delivering aircraft to nations around the world that outperform anything else we have - except the Raptor,” said General Jumper after he piloted the F-22 at Mach 1.7. But the truth is he could be terribly wrong……

With Indo-Russian Aviation Limited (IRAL) planning joint co-production on new stealthy Russian aircraft which has been HAL’s longstanding expertise in erstwhile Soviet fighter plane designs, the MiG MFI project is definitely what India is eyeing.

Who knows 20 years from now, an IAF MiG 1.42 “Raptor Killer” may once more score kills over a USAF F-22 in DACT
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All-in-all it just boils down to this. Whatever the Americans have, the Russians have better. The failure of the Sabres against Korean MiGs saw the development of the F-5. The low kill ratios of the Phantoms and F-5s against the nimble MiGs over N. Vietnam saw the development of the F-16 and the high speed MiG-25 lead to the F-15s development. Yet an integrated BVR attack capable IAF MiG 21 Bison armed with a Phazotron Kopyo-M radar and R-77 BVRAAMs can still “schlemm” any F-16. And while the ATF program began in the early 1980s with the YF-22 making its maiden flight in September 1990 the F-22 probably won’t be fully operational with the USAF by 2008-2010. So with the F-22 being technologically three decades old one can only fathom how much superior the MiG MFI is.

Having greater agility and range than the F-22 the aerodynamically superior MFI will have a top speed of Mach 2.6 versus Mach 1.7 for the F-22 Raptor, and the MFI will be able to cruise supersonically for a longer period. To reduce RCS it sports a heavy coating of RAM, S-shaped compressor channels, internal weapon storage, LO airframe geometry, and maybe an active radar cancellation system (RCS) or a plasma cloud stealth (PCS) system making it stealthier than the F-22 as MiG MAPO claims. Two three-dimensional thrust-vectoring Saturn/Lyulka AL-41F turbofans, capable of 44,100 lb of thrust in afterburner power the MiG 1.42. The key to the MiG-1.42 is its new Phazotron N-014 phased array fire control radar and rear-facing N-012 radar system operating in in air and ground modes simultaneously with ground mapping, search-and-track of moving targets, synthetic aperature radar and terrain avoidance it is capable of detecting any stealth aircraft without a special radar.
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By Unperson-S
#833435
Modern combat aircraft dont need to be that fast, well at least as fast as that. Its pointless, modern aireal engagments happen miles and miles away from each other, there was a major devolopment in the second half of the 20th century, the air to air missile. There is no need for anything like this. What planes need to do, more than ever now, is simply have good handling, good speed (not excessive), have a open-shut weapon bay, as in actually within the plane, rather than racks on the wings, and most importantly, stealth.

Modern aircraft combat just doesnt need as much thrust or power in the engines as possible. And the Sabre was far better than the Migs in the Korean war, hell the Sabre was built to counter the Migs (cant remember theyre number, but you know which one I mean).

The pinnacle of Russian aerospace engineering was the Mig 29 Fulcrum. The mig 25 had pointlessly high speeds, the supersonic bomber that it was supposed to intercept had been taken out of development, and so there was little point to it.
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By Boondock Saint
#833551
All-in-all it just boils down to this. Whatever the Americans have, the Russians have better.


I always appreciate your ability to be objective on such topics Russkie, it really helps me find common ground with your positions.

This 'Raptor Killer' is a prototype response to the F-22.

Perhaps you missed the irony in that? Particularly since you point out that the US played catch up with the Soviet Union for most of the Cold War.
By Piano Red
#833699
Yes another "concept car" fighter that the Russians have heralded as their response to the F-22 for a couple years now. I'll take it seriously when I actually see them put funding into it's development, or better yet, working models produced in mass.
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By Unperson-S
#833722
I cant wait till the JSF comes out, thats gonna be some nice peice of kit.

As for the eurofighter typhoon, well thats been so long in the making, its old technology. God dam slow working Europeans!!!
By The Decay of Meaning
#835034
I cant wait till the JSF comes out, thats gonna be some nice peice of kit.

Do you believe the production of JSF will be a positive contribution to society?
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By War Angel
#903826
Mach 1.7 for the F-22 Raptor

1.7 Mach WITHOUT AFTER-BURNERS. That's an unfathomably high speed, while still conservative in fuel. With after-burners on, I daresay the F-22 could surpass mach 2.5 quite easily, in the right altitude.

Anyway, the Russians used to make fine aircraft (and still do, with the Mig-29 and the Sukhoi 30 family), but are sadly far behind the Americans in terms of technology. It all comes down to money, eventually, and the Americans have got much, much more.
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By starman2003
#908055
open-shut weapon bay, as in actually within the plane


Why is that so important?
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By Unperson-S
#908070
It can increase aerodynamics - not having missiles out in the open, and also is being used on stealthy aircraft so that they can stay stealthy and not have to design new missiles that are also stealthy (which would be very hard), having them in an inside compartment means that the plane can stay 'invisible' (to radar) until it fires, then when its fired, it will go 'invisible' again.

Stealth is all about having shallow angles rather than big ones, like 90 degrees, as this makes them bounce back at an awkward angle, making it difficult for them to be picked up by radar. Then of course theres also modern materials.

So the material, and shape of the missile would all have to be changed to make them stealthy enough to go on the outside of the aircraft, and seens as thats difficult, they have a open-close system into an internal compartment.
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By Thunderhawk
#912150
It seems like a nice platform, but the electronic goodies matter a great deal. What good is fantastic physical performance of the aircraft, if it can be smoked from a physically inferior yet tricked-out rival ?


The Dutch (or was it Belgium ?) put money into the development of the JSF, and were expecting the full kit in return. However, the electronics kit they get with the plane is the export version - not the top end stuff the USA will keep and the Dutch (Belgiums?) were expecting. End result, Netherlands has switched over to the Typhoon - which they had believed to be #2, as they will get its top grade electronics package - and that will make it better then the American export version of the JSF.
-> the electronics package matters that much.


If India and/or Russian can develop a nice electronics kit for the plane, then they cant go toe to toe with the raptor. Otherwise, all they have is a highly manoverable target.
By scooby
#926600
Say what you like about the planes, the differance is that you must have the best PILOTS otherwise all you have is expensive metal ornaments
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By Unperson-S
#926608
Thats not really true in modern air combat.

Pilots are a plus, and so is manoeuvrability. However, if you have a better radar system and the latest long range weapons - so called 'fire and forget' weapons systems, it doesnt matter how good a pilot you are, just as long as you can take off, avoid the ground and land again you are good enough.

Modern air combat is now all about weapons systems. The days of the 'romantic' age of air combat, the days of WW1 and WW2 have all but disapeared.

A missile is faster and more manoeuvrable than most aircraft. The only way to really avoid being shot down now, is both stealth technology, which can disrupt the enemies weapons systems thus giving the pilot and the aircraft the edge, or a better weapons system - longer range, better radar better computer systems etc.

Just as long as a pilot can take off, avoid the ground and land it, aswell as taking a few g's, he is a good enough pilot. The only other thing that is needed is weapons training, which isnt shooting down a range, its basically being able to understand and control the aircrafts on board computer systems.
By intenseblue98rt
#934012
I respect all views on military equipment and I agree that the Russians have some very superior aircraft but when it comes down to air to air combat, my money is on the F-22 Raptor.
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By Rodion
#934423
Mine, too. Because it has gas... Jokes aside, Russian fighter jocks really are suffering from a terrible lack of fly hours.
By vK_man
#1374560
project mig 1.42 has been cancelled , and in its place the PAK FA is in development
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By Red Star
#1375182
What vK_man said. The PAK-FA is basically the Russian Air Force's future project for a 5th generation fighter. The MiG 1.42 remained a prototype and a test-bed for technologies.

I am sure that when the PAK-FA comes into production it will be a fine aircraft, at the top of its game. However, by that time, it seems that the USAF will be switching from the F-22 to whatever UAV drone will be the force of the future.

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