[MacDK]

I am following a seminar on "Europe Between the Wars" currently, and in relation to this got to wondering about the fate of German communists during the 2nd World War.

Obviously, many leading members either fled the country before the war (Walter Ulbricht etc.), or were removed by the Nazi regime (Ernst Thälmann etc.), but what about all the ordinary members (or voters) of the KPD?

Some of course fought in the Spanish Civil War, some ended up in the German resistance etc. But judging by the number of people who voted for the KPD during the years leading up to Hitlers takeover (13%-17%), the size of the electorate and the massive conscription that happened during the war, tens of thousands of communists (or communist sympathisers) must have ended up fighting for The Third Reich. Most of these on the Eastern Front against The Soviet Union.

This subject leads to many questions in my mind :

What is the psychological rational behind this - from the point of view of these people?
- Are people just following orders? Afraid to be prosecuted or worse?
- Does the urge to "defend" ones homeland triumph over ideology?
- Does comradeship and sense of obligation towards fellow soldiers triumph over ideology?

What were the personal feelings and experiences of these people?

Were there attempts towards defecting to The Soviet Union? Or any uprisings/rebellions?

Did the Wehrmacht (or the regime) take special care to disperse these people to as many different units as possible? Were they kept out of the army all together (as long as possible) and instead put to work in production etc.?

Does anyone know if there are any books/studies on this subject?

[GandalfTheGrey]

- the communist party was a mainstream party in the early 30s. Voting for a major political party doesn't make you a committed member of that party. For most people, a particular option is only attractive while it is a viable option. In 1932 Germany was still a democracy and the communists were a mainstream democratic option. Two years later there was no communist party to vote for.
- there were literally 10s of thousands of German citizens who spent the nazi years in internment camps - and I'm guessing that committed communists would have been close to state enemy number 1.
- Given the sophisticated internal security machinery in nazi Germany, I don't think its too far fetched to assume that the vast majority of hard core communists were "put away" by the state one way or another.

In conclusion, I would suggest that there weren't many communists or communist sympathizers in the wehrmacht ranks for the authorities to be overly concerned about.

[MacDK]

- the communist party was a mainstream party in the early 30s. Voting for a major political party doesn't make you a committed member of that party. For most people, a particular option is only attractive while it is a viable option. In 1932 Germany was still a democracy and the communists were a mainstream democratic option. Two years later there was no communist party to vote for.

I understand your point, but I am not sure it holds as much during the era as it would in a representative democracy today. Voters were much more party loyal back then, and the different parties represented different classes more than they do today. People would have voted for the communists mostly out of ideological or socio-economical reasons. Many would, in my opinion, not just stop being communists because the party "disappeared".

[Nattering Nabob]

What is the psychological rational behind this - from the point of view of these people?
- Are people just following orders? Afraid to be prosecuted or worse?
- Does the urge to "defend" ones homeland triumph over ideology?
- Does comradeship and sense of obligation towards fellow soldiers triumph over ideology?

The Brown Shirts would parade down the street and bystanders would have to give the Nazi salute as they passed and anyone who didn't got the shit beat out of them.

I've read accounts of people ducking into shops to avoid saluting as a procession passed.

The Nazi's were thugs and the whole procession would stop as they bashed the heads in of anyone who looked other than excited to see them.

Any former communist kept his mouth shut and tried to blend in.

[Okonkwo]

Any former communist kept his mouth shut and tried to blend in.

Precisely. Those communists and socialists that did open there mouth were immediately deported.
It is a little known fact that there were concentration camps with virtually no Jews. There were mainly political prisoners.

[Thunderhawk]

It is a little known fact that there were concentration camps with virtually no Jews.

To the best of knowledge, socially if not historically correct, concentration camps, work camps and death camps are seperate things. Most Jews would have gone to the latter two as they were supposed to die, not be state prisoners living in a shit hole for the rest of their lives.

[Okonkwo]

Most Jews would have gone to the latter two as they were supposed to die, not be state prisoners living in a shit hole for the rest of their lives.

Most certainly. But it is generally accepted that Jews were sent to concentration camps. There were of course differences between the camps, the Jews were going there to work and eventually die/be murdered immediately, most of the political enemies were simply put away and made to work. Hence the Holocaust does not include the political victims of the Nazi regime.

[Bosnjak]

Some Commies were released from KZs, and sent to the Eastern Front, where the German Army was massacred.



How exactly things happened needs further research, and how many humans died is unclear, probably much more then officialy known.

Hitler was a Dictator and it was his right to do what he wants... Stalin killed 10 Million Ukrainian, the commies let them starve, they took their food reserves over the cold winter.

Are people just following orders?

Hitler was elected as a War President, nothing else,the comies attacked finnland 1939, befor the Communist Empire overrun Central Asia. The Germans feared to become the next.

[MacDK]

Hitler was elected as a War President, nothing else,the comies attacked finnland 1939, befor the Communist Empire overrun Central Asia. The Germans feared to become the next.

Hitler was elected in 1933, so I have trouble seeing how the Winter War in Finland has anything to do with it.

Also, the Soviet attack on Finland was done with German blessing. The Germans gave The Soviet Union parts of Finland in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact where the two states divided Eastern Europe into spheres of influence between them. The same agreement which saw the two states divide Poland between them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ri ... t_protocol

[Bosnjak]

The commies expanded in Central-Asia they were steadily increasing their influence sphere, and in Germany was a civil war going on. before 1933

Do you have infos about the Numbers of Tanks and Aircrafts, I thought that the USSR had 3 times more equipment before the war, and the Germans had to attack before the commies would also overtaking them in Technology.

[Nattering Nabob]

I recently read Herbert Werner's Iron Coffins, a personal account by a U-boat captain...

He told a story about discovering that a U-boat cook was selling food for money...after being discovered the cook stole an officer's Luger, went AWOL, and was later captured after a suicide attempt.

The cook was asked about God by Werner who was questioning him in a hospital.

The cook told Werner he didn't believe in God and that instead he "believed in communism". He told Werner that his father had been a communist.

The cook hid his communist ideology from the German govt and only revealed it to Werner because he (the cook) was in such a terrible emotional state...