Why did Hitler declare war on the United States? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The Second World War (1939-1945).
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14951875
Red_Army wrote:I guess it's impressive in a sense that the Germans fought for a few years against three powers that they would never have been able to annex individually. It was colossally stupid, but nice try Krauts!


Maybe the post-war NSDAP will have been smarter post-1945, and worked to undermine their enemies in the Allied powers first, before they try to rise up and conquer Germany then Europe. I wonder if the Fascists will ever try again, and learned the lessons of their mistakes from 1914-1945. I figure we would have picked up on it by 2015 or so if that's the case.
#14951883
Nonsense wrote:You can't wind me up Decky , revel in displaying your ignorance to all & sundry.

Facts are facts, they cannot be changed, they are real, like them or not, that's the reality of FACTS. :knife: :knife: :moron: :moron:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Greece

Date 28 October 1940 – 1 June 1941


Nonsense wrote:Hitler invaded Greece in 1942


Yep definitely American, not only uneducated but too uneducated to even know it. :lol:
#14951964
Why are people necro-posting so badly? This is a 6 year old dead thread. It died because the answer was obvious and supported by historical facts.


/thread.
#14952076
Decky wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Greece





Yep definitely American, not only uneducated but too uneducated to even know it. :lol:


^If I am uneducated Decky, then you are immature beyond your years, your 'education' leaves much to be desired. :knife: :knife: :moron: :moron: :evil: :evil:


The date is an irrelevant slip, it's the sequential chain of events leading to the German defeat that matters.

Hitler made mistake after mistake in helping Mussolini out when he was under threat from allied(mainly British)forces.
That tied up precious German resources, that would have been better utilised elsewhere by the German military machine.

Mussolini was trying to emulate the Roman Empire, of course, like Hitler, he was delusional on the grand scale.
#14952127
Nonsense wrote:Hitler made mistake after mistake in helping Mussolini out when he was under threat from allied(mainly British)forces.
That tied up precious German resources, that would have been better utilised elsewhere by the German military machine.


Who did you copy that idea from from? :lol: It seems that you have finally given up and are agreeing with me.

Decky wrote:There is actually an argument (not a great one but still...) for the Greeks being the reason the Germans didn't take Moscow in 1941. Hitler had to postpone Barbarossa so he could help the Italians take Greece. The postponement meant he has less time before the autumn and the rasputitsa came.
#14952193
Anyway, I seem to remember now, reading Sebastian Haffner about Hitler's decision to declare war on the United States in December of 1941, that Haffner believed Hitler knew the war was lost (the war he wanted to have won, anyways) after the Soviet counterattack at the gates of Moscow and when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, Hitler had the opportunity to drag America into the abyss with Germany and bloody the USA as much as he could.

Hitler knew it was just a matter of time before the Third Reich was crushed, and in his view he turned to a ''war'' he still had interest in winning, the war of extermination against the Jews and Gypsies and Slavs in captivity behind Fascist lines. He told his troops to hold fast where they were, fight to the last, with Hitler believing the Germany they fought for no longer deserved to exist and was unworthy of Hitler and his aspirations for them, and with Hitler turning critical German resources towards the cold blooded murder of innocent civilians.

This is why he declared war on the United States.
#14952598
annatar1914 wrote:Anyway, I seem to remember now, reading Sebastian Haffner about Hitler's decision to declare war on the United States in December of 1941, that Haffner believed Hitler knew the war was lost (the war he wanted to have won, anyways) after the Soviet counterattack at the gates of Moscow and when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, Hitler had the opportunity to drag America into the abyss with Germany and bloody the USA as much as he could.

Hitler knew it was just a matter of time before the Third Reich was crushed, and in his view he turned to a ''war'' he still had interest in winning, the war of extermination against the Jews and Gypsies and Slavs in captivity behind Fascist lines. He told his troops to hold fast where they were, fight to the last, with Hitler believing the Germany they fought for no longer deserved to exist and was unworthy of Hitler and his aspirations for them, and with Hitler turning critical German resources towards the cold blooded murder of innocent civilians.

This is why he declared war on the United States.


NONSENSE - Hitler declared war on the USA less than a week after Pearl Harbour, the USA then responded with it's own declaration of war against Germany.
Japan through Pearl Harbour, set off the chain reaction, America declared war on Japan following PH, Hitler then declared war on America(he was bound to do so as part of a tripartite agreement between Germany, Italy & Japan), then America declared war on Germany, leaving Churchill pretty chuffed about it all.

Hitler, initially, never had any 'Final Solution' policy for the Jews, it developed as time went on, blaming Jews for everything as a response to domestic economic failings, was like blaming migrants for our own economic problems(it is wrong, because they are pre-existing & separate to the migration issue).
Hitler could not accept that Germany would, or indeed, was losing the war, he was essentially in 'denial' & could not accept any loss of control over the German state.
The Nazis knew Hitler's thoughts on the Jews, they wanted to fight to the bitter end, implement the annihilation of the Jews until they were forced to flee the Soviet forces coming to get them, whence they implemented a 'scorched earth' policy, to deny Stalin any victor's spoils of war.
#14952613
Hitler's biggest mistake was the occupation of rCzechoslovakia in March 39. if he'd played his cards right he could have pushed Poland into declaring war without bringing in the British or French and without requiring him to give massive territorial advances to the Soviets. He could have defeated Poland and converted it into his anti Soviet client.
#14953170
Rich wrote:Hitler's biggest mistake was the occupation of rCzechoslovakia in March 39. if he'd played his cards right he could have pushed Poland into declaring war without bringing in the British or French and without requiring him to give massive territorial advances to the Soviets. He could have defeated Poland and converted it into his anti Soviet client.


It was one of his biggest mistakes, the occupation of Czechia and Slovakia, because it left Poland surrounded on three sides by a revanchist enemy, but Hitler wanted the Skoda works and other elements of Czech industry.

Problem with Hitler and Poland is that there is no way Hitler would have accepted Poland as a Fascist ally instead of a Fascist enemy (Poland was a textbook case of Fascist rule) without territorial demands being met, and there was no way Poland could back down from that, being a proud nation themselves.

Hitler wanted access to facilitate an invasion of the Soviet Union, to conquer the Eurasian Heartland as per Mackinder and Haushofer, and Poland was in the way, it's really as simple as that. Hitler could not stop, Nazism requires endless warfare and drive for conquest and exploitation.
#14953219
annatar1914 wrote:Problem with Hitler and Poland is that there is no way Hitler would have accepted Poland as a Fascist ally instead of a Fascist enemy (Poland was a textbook case of Fascist rule) without territorial demands being met, and there was no way Poland could back down from that, being a proud nation themselves.

There was no way that Hitler would ever have made a pact with the Soviet Union except of course that he did. France was a proud nation, but once militarily defeated it wasn't hard to find a reactionary right wing organically based regime to partner with. Hitler actually showed little interest in Poland. He was an Austrian who spent WWI on the western front.

annatar1914 wrote:Hitler wanted access to facilitate an invasion of the Soviet Union, to conquer the Eurasian Heartland as per Mackinder and Haushofer, and Poland was in the way, it's really as simple as that.

Poland was a very valuable potential ally, who were eager to seize more territory from the Soviet Union. They could also be played off against the Baltic States more valuable anti Communist allies that Hitler threw away. But Poland didn't even lie on what should have been the invasion route. Hitler's priorities were to secure the Ploiesti oil fields and capture the Donbas and the Caucus oil fields. If seizure of the oil fields without major destruction was impossible in a single military campaign, then the next best thing was to establish the German army on the Volga and renegotiate a trade deal with a massively weakened Soviet Union.
#14953371
@Rich

You said Rich that;


There was no way that Hitler would ever have made a pact with the Soviet Union except of course that he did.


Only the sort of non-aggression ''pact'' in which both parties know war is coming, a ''pact'' that wasn't a pact at all really. Hitler wasn't stupid, but neither was Stalin.


France was a proud nation, but once militarily defeated it wasn't hard to find a reactionary right wing organically based regime to partner with.


''Reactionary'', but hardly ''organic'', as it required French defeat and German occupation in order for the Vichy regime to even exist. Your point would have been better made for an example, if Marshal Petain had been President of France in May 1940 before the invasion and not after.



Hitler actually showed little interest in Poland. He was an Austrian who spent WWI on the western front.


He showed interest for sure afterwards. The fate of Poland is instructive, because he could still have had an allied Fascist regime in Poland after his victory in September 1939 over Warsaw, but revealed instead a savage bloodlust against Poland, denying him the war he wanted but giving him the war he got, along with a ferocious and primitive anti-slavic mentality.

Poland was a very valuable potential ally, who were eager to seize more territory from the Soviet Union.


Yes, the regime in Poland were Fascist assholes too, just as in Berlin. Few people remember that it was Poland that invaded the Soviet Union in 1920, and was beaten back to the outskirts of Warsaw. It was indeed a miracle they didn't lose then. Too few remember either about that conflict that of the over 100,000 Russian prisoners of war from the 1920 Polish-Soviet war, over 80,000 died from exposure, disease, and guard brutality.


They could also be played off against the Baltic States more valuable anti Communist allies that Hitler threw away.


Should've, would've, could've, Hitler did what he did and everything inclined to produce the outcome that it did.


But Poland didn't even lie on what should have been the invasion route.


''Should''?

Hitler's priorities were to secure the Ploiesti oil fields and capture the Donbas and the Caucus oil fields.


Not initially. First, he wanted Leningrad and Moscow. The Polesti oil fields were already operating full capacity by the Romanians, who were German allies. The drive through Southern Russia, Donbass, the Ukraine, Caucasus oil fields, the Volga, etc.. was only made primary after the setbacks of 1941.

If seizure of the oil fields without major destruction was impossible in a single military campaign, then the next best thing was to establish the German army on the Volga and renegotiate a trade deal with a massively weakened Soviet Union.


Would never happen, nor do I know of a German source that even mentions such a delusion as a possibility.
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