[Wilhelm]

World War II is on the brink of ending. Hitler is recovering from his attempted murder. Allied troops have landed in Normandy, and the Soviets are pressuring from the East.

Now, who was most important, the Soviets or the other guys?

I say the Soviets. They managed to repel the Nazis from Stalingrad, etc, and then go and fight them back in their own territory. While the British and American armies were still fighting like in the Netherlands and Denmark, the Soviets had already captured Berlin.

[Adrien]

Well, i think in this very case they are both equally important.

We can't imagine this ending with one of them missing, but i may be subjective because the "other guys" liberated my own country.

[Wilhelm]

Yes, I also believe French resistance was very important for "Operation Overlord". They helped blow up railways and some other stuff, so the Wehrmacht couldn't get there on time (besides, Hitler was asleep and nobody dared wake up the Führer for him to order something to do ).

[Adrien]

Yes, but Resistance also helped French to look back on WWII, and France to regain her dignity.

The "Vichy" part of our history is a shame to us, we do not even consider it as a true France, or true Frenchs (except those right extremists), but Resistance symbolizes this true France, ans covers the shame.

PS: héhé

[Sovietski]

soviets, who lost the most people who got cities destroyed who lost the most civiliand...soviets did and same as world war 1..soviets put out alot of men and did take over most of germany basicly americans were very helpfull becuase they brought allies into play 3 big one America,Soviet,British--i got world war 2 propaganda posters on cards like 20 of them with a hella lot of info pretty cool what u can find in good will

[KurtFF8]

You cant really say that either side was more important, because without the US/UK help, there would have been much more power behind the Russian front (on the german side) and stalingrad could have fallen to the Nazis.

And it would have been a lot longer if the germans had stuck to their treaty with the USSR because there would have been more power on the german side on the western front.

[Sovietski]

true true i am kinda supporting one side more than another..."equal share for every one"-c&c quote i think lol

[Deicidus]

My grandfather was in WWII, so were his brothers. He started as a pilot, being shiped in England in 39 when Canada supoorted them. He fought the Nazies there. On 5th june 44, he was in the paratroopers. He was a french Canadian, so he jumped with other guys in civilian clothes to Help French resistance blow up bridges and roads, taking out some outposts. When he told me that story, he couldn't tell me all of it. He thaught it was easy shooting down planes from far away. But when he was in Normandy and France, He shot other people. In his mind, he was planning on killing Nazi bastards, like the officials told them. They hit a post during the night, when they stormed the place, they didnt found Nazi bastards. They shot 14 and 15 year old kids. Only the seargent was 19 or 20. All the others were Hitler's youth brigade. That wasnt the only place, all the over the place they heard report of this. They were shooting at kids. The only adults that we still there were the injured or the oldest. On a ratio status, the level of good vetran adult troops on the teenager conscripts was 1 to 6. All the rest of the german troops died or were still on the East Front. So no, I dont think the ``others`` had a lot to do with winning the war. It was the russians who liberated the concentration camps all the way to Berlin. They were already in Poland for weeks when the allies arrived in France. When Hitler shot himself in his bunker, he was surrounded by russians. The soviet union saved the day but they had to pay a terrible price for it.

So don't believe the American propaganda when THEY say that they won the war over the III Reich.

[Sovietski]

oh ya hitlers youth program no offense but that was dirty putting kids out there hopen no one would shoot or at least hesitate kind of a sad thing ww2 was well its over and if bush does attack iraq it could be the start of ww3

[Adrien]

Hitler was completely blinded by the approaching defeat when he sent those kids to the slaughter... Sadly there's not a lot a people who know this episode, the documentaries don't talk about it. People should know what this madman (and that's a light word) did.

But from the allies side it must have been terrible too like Deicidus said.

[Wilhelm]

I read in a Word War II chronicle that in the last days of the war, in the Russian front, the SS forced every soldier to fight, and it was either confront he Soviets in battle, or be shot by an SS official.
I read in the newspaper that Saddam has been trainning kids to fight. Not that I am in favour of the war against Iraq, but Saddam is a heartless bastard, don't you think?

[Red Bear]

Soviet-Union saved the day.20 mil.people day saving their land,but they manage to defeat Reich.Sure America and England help alot but it was Red Army's triumph.But few of you know that landing was scheduled for 1942. but Cherchil insisted for prolonginig the war.

[Wilhelm]

But few of you know that landing was scheduled for 1942. but Cherchil insisted for prolonginig the war.

Tell me more about it. Why would he want that?

[Krasniy Yastreb]

Well I know the Dieppe raid happened in '42. Now that was a cockup beyond all imagination.

Many Canadians were killed on that day, so regrets to all of yous.

Of course the Russians saved all our arses during the war. All the Yanks did was hasten it's end. My mother can just about remember living in North London towards the end of the war as a child, seeing the V1s & V2s, etc. She has the same views. (Y'know once a V1 hit the house over the road from her, blew all the windows out in her house and knocked the front door off it's hinges )

[KurtFF8]

its BS when u say that the Russiana saved the day, the americans liberated camps to,etc., without american invovlment, the war would have gone on many more years, same with russian invovlment.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

When looked at in terms of victories gained and casualties suffered, The Russian contribution was far greater. They maintained a whole front by themselves. By the time of the Normandy landings, the Germans were reeling backwards on the Eastern front after Stalingrad and Kursk.

While the constant threat of invasion in the West kept valuable German troops in France, the Russians advance was faster, but even if not, they could have done it by themselves.

Even if, early on, the Germans had taken Moscow and Stalingrad, there's still a couple of million square miles of Russia behind it, and the Red Army would have kept on fighting and eventually won.

[KurtFF8]

Even if, early on, the Germans had taken Moscow and Stalingrad, there's still a couple of million square miles of Russia behind it, and the Red Army would have kept on fighting and eventually won.

unless stalin implemented his scortched earth plan

[Adrien]

unless stalin implemented his scortched earth plan

A very efficient tactic, especially combined with russian winter. Happily for us, Hitler didn't learn what happened to Napoleon.

[KurtFF8]

unless stalin implemented his scortched earth plan

A very efficient tactic, especially combined with russian winter. Happily for us, Hitler didn't learn what happened to Napoleon.

yup

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Lets just say this...without American/British involvment...WW2 would have cost the Russians a few more million deaths...and lasted a few more months.

Without Soviet involvment...wir würden Deutsches sprechen

In 1942...there were more than 200 Nazi divisions on the Soviet front. There were only 4 in Africa.

German soldiers were send to France and to man the Atlantic Wall as a vacation from the Eastern Front. The wall was manned by injured and shell-shocked troops...as well as low quality units made up of other Axis allies.

This was the situation until late 1944. Allied bombing did little to slow down German production. In 1943-44...German production increased as compared to previous years.


When the Allies landed in Sicily...they did so only becasue Hitler was concentrating on the Kursk operation. After the landings in Normandy...the Allies were stuck. It was the Soviets that relieved them by launching operations in Poland.

Overall...more than 80% of all German losses...were suffered on the Eastern Front. 85% of men and more than 75% of planes and tanks were lost on the Eastern Front. Until 1944...there was no second front for the Germans...just a pesky disturbance in the West.

When the Allies won at El Alamein...they claimed it as a greater victory than Stalingrad. There were only about 60 German tanks at El Alamein. Allied victory was against Ethiopian soldiers drafted in the Italian Army...supported by about 4 divisions of Germans...most of whom escaped.

In Stalingrad....Germans lost 1 million men.

Westerners like to say that Lend-Lease played the most important role in the Soviet victory. That is totally false. Lend-lease did not start coming to the Soviets in any quantity until 1944...in 1943 only a little came and before that none came. By 1944...however...the Soviets were well within the grasp of victory. In total...Lend-Lease accounted for less than 10% of Soviet war time production...without taking into account Soviet pre-war production. USSR payed in gold for every single bolt send to them...

German war machine came to a halt in 1944...not becasue of Allied bombings...but because the Soviets cut off 60% of the German oil supply in Romania.