Himmler's Diary found in Russian Archives - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The Second World War (1939-1945).
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#14707648
It's amazing that such documents should have been hidden away in Russian archives for so long. Was it just Soviet incompetence? Or was it by design?

Himmler's official war diaries to be published

The diary of one of the most notorious Nazi leaders, Heinrich Himmler, is to be published next year by a Moscow-based institute. The diaries reveal the SS-Reichsführer's day-to-day appointments before and during the war.

The official diary of SS chief Heinrich Himmler is to be released to the public, the Moscow-based German Historical Institute (DHI) has announced. The diaries, covering the years 1937-38 and 1944-45 were discovered in 2013 in a Russian Defense Ministry archive in Podolsk, outside Moscow.

The typed-out diaries, written ahead of each day by a series of adjutants, list in detail Himmler's day-to-day appointments, and have helped to complete a chronicle partially visible in Himmler's 1941-42 diaries, which were found in the early 1990s and published in 1999.

The documents show a busy schedule of meetings with bureaucrats, SS generals, foreign leaders like Benito Mussolini, and visits to concentration camps, including Auschwitz, Sobibor, and Buchenwald.
Himmler is often considered Adolf Hitler's immediate number two, serving first as head of the Nazi party's paramilitary force the Sturmabteilung (SA), before the NSDAP rose to power in 1933.

Warsaw Ghetto 1943

By the end of the Third Reich twelve years later (and his suicide in British custody in Lüneburg on May 23, 1945), Himmler had accumulated so many different positions - Reichsführer SS, head of the German police, Interior Minister, and commander of the Replacement Army (the part of the Wehrmacht operating inside Germany) - that his power was only superseded by Hitler himself.

Unique discovery

His roles put Himmler in control of the concentration camp network as well as the Nazis' domestic intelligence agency. Given that no other major Nazi leader apart from Josef Goebbels kept a diary of such detail, the impending publication is being viewed as particularly significant.

"Goebbels was really a figure in the second tier [of the Third Reich's power structure]," said Matthias Uhl, the DHI historian who directed the project and has been studying the find for the past three years. "Here one can follow Himmler's day minutely, and reconstruct certain important decisions."

The diaries also make the general picture of Himmler's role in the Holocaust much clearer. "It's now possible to reconstruct [Himmler's] work in the second half of the war," Uhl told DW. The diary shows that Himmler toured a number of concentration camps as well as the Warsaw Ghetto (on January 9, 1943), and took an active role in directing the mass murder of Jews.

"And we see how all of his contacts in his state and economic network fit together to reinforce his position," said Uhl.

Key speech

One of the most important notes, published on Tuesday by "Bild," can be found under the entry for October 4, 1943, when Himmler made a speech to a gathering of SS leaders at 5:30 p.m. at the "Hotel Ostland" in Poznan, a city in occupied Poland.

Poland Sobibor concentration camp

The Nazi leader witnessed the gas chambers of the Sobibor camp in use
This entry documents the first of the infamous "Posen speeches,"(the German name for Poznan), one of the few times that a leading Nazi discussed the Holocaust on record. In the three-hour speech, a part of which was read during the Nuremberg trials, Himmler said, "Among us it should be talked about openly, though we will never talk about it in public - I mean the Jewish evacuation, the extinction of the Jewish people."

The new diary shows that the speech was followed by a meal with leading SS officers.
Uhl also confirmed that there was "no doubt" that the document was genuine, both because of the content and because it exactly matched similar documents of the time. "You can't forge something like that," he said.

The document was found in the Russian archive marked simply with the Russian word "Dnewnik," meaning diary, which was one of the reasons why it had been lost for so long. But Uhl underlined that there was no way of knowing how exactly it had fallen into the hands of the Red Army.

The 1,000-page document will be published in two volumes at the end of 2017, though the German mass-circulation daily "Bild" has already serialized parts of it this week.

The Podolsk archive contains some 2.5 million pages of documents seized during the war by the Red Army, which are in the process of being digitalized and released by joint German-Russian institutions.
#14707700
James Sonny Crockett wrote:Any specific quotes that are reveiled?

It's not the kind of stuff I normally read. But it seems that there are passages showing Himmler's cynicism in the face of the holocaust:

Nazi Heinrich Himmler’s Lost Diaries Show How He Mixed Family With Mass Murder

Nazi Heinrich Himmler’s Lost Diaries Show How He Mixed Family With Mass Murder

Entries reveal calls to family members — and orders for executions.
Newly uncovered diary pages show in chilling detail how Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS in Nazi Germany, plotted some of the worst atrocities ever committed while also finding time for his family.

Although many of Himmler’s diary pages were previously discovered, some 1,000 pages missing for more than 70 years were recently found in an archive in Moscow where they were listed only as “diary,” according to the Jewish Chronicle.

The diaries are being published by Germany’s Bild newspaper, with many of the details translated in the British press.

In one entry, reported by The Sun, Himmler referred to a “comradely” lunch at the Dachau concentration camp, scene of 41,500 murders. In another, he “took a snack in the cafe at the SS casino” at Buchenwald, where 56,000 were killed.

The paper reported that Himmler often began his days with two-hour massage sessions, and called home to speak with his wife, Margarete, and daughter, Gudrun “Puppi” Burwitz nearly every day. That daughter, now 86, has remained involved in neo-Nazi causes.

The most interesting thing for me is this combination of doting father and cold-blooded killer,” Damian Imoehl, the journalist who helped to track down the diaries for Bild, told the Times of London.

“He was very careful about his wife and daughter, as well as his affair with his secretary. He takes care of his comrades and friends,” Imoehl said. “Then there is the man of horror. One day he starts with breakfast and a massage from his personal doctor, then he rings up his wife and daughter in the south of Germany and after that he decides to have 10 men killed or visits a concentration camp.”

Some of the greatest atrocities of World War II were given only passing reference in the diary’s pages.

“Tour of SS-Sonderkommando” was how Himmler listed a trip to see diesel engines being used to gas prisoners to death at the Sobibor death camp, according to The Sun. Because there were no Jewish prisoners available to kill, 400 Jewish women and girls were rounded up from the nearby city of Lublin and murdered in the gas chamber.

After the mass killing, Himmler had a “banquet” with SS officers.

One of the most notorious moments of the war was listed only as “17:30 speech to SS officers.” That referred to a speech Himmler delivered in Posen in which he referenced the “small matter” of the “extermination of the Jewish people.”
#14710338
HH sounds like a typical psychopath with no feelings for anybody else's pain.

How this cluster of psychopaths got together and found each other and then managed to get elected by the German People by making promises they could not possibly keep is somewhat of a mystery to me.

How these psychopaths are spawned is yet another mystery. Are they just an indigenous part of the DNA pool or did something have to happen to them, like beatings by their parents as children, to create them I wonder too?

75 Million people killed as a result of the nonsense played out in Germany and in Japan was 3% or more of the 2.3 billion world population in 1939.
#14710390
yiostheoy wrote:How this cluster of psychopaths got together and found each other and then managed to get elected by the German People by making promises they could not possibly keep is somewhat of a mystery to me.

The scary part of it is that the Nazi killers were very ordinary people, what Hannah Arendt called the Banality of Evil. Civilization is only skin deep. Underneath there is an ocean of dog-eat-dog chaos. Extreme conditions, like the power vacuum and depression after WWI, can lead to mob rule.
#14710410
yiostheoy wrote:"HH...feelings...

...mystery...

...1939.
Such facts disloyal to the Third Reich shall be subject to serial executions since you are dealing with serial killers. You're right, the Germans were being subjected by way of much newer revelations. They finally were no longer able to marvel at such an ugly people must deserve death for spreading so many diseases as well as curses. How many exactly died by typhus, starvation chambers, thermal executions, new electricians, swimming pools, film theaters, empty lunches, German jokes, what blokes, sure tangents.

Other than that, anything else good enough for the feminists. Yes, those were some real sad times. Well, gosh they extensively held an eye on those same camps? This is all a preview of what was. There were never any six million dead jews. In the whole villainous world, they are but a few. But ya, the Nazis got their due. Ya, there are still some Ash'kenazis who deserve death plus torture plus what else such desperate agents would wish for the richest disposals of the Germans. Other than that, what are the discoveries.
#14710411
Atlantis wrote:...Nazi killers were very ordinary people, what Hannah Arendt called the Banality of Evil. Civilization is...an ocean of dog-eat-dog chaos...mob rule.
Just a cluster of sick psychopaths. But everyone has said it was also the regular German people meaning probably most likely just most of the Germans. If not, were those not possible considered to be subversives. Civilization is never going to get anywhere as long as there are still jews. That really means there must finally just be a most final end of all of the kikes.

There is not a single one that has not cost us. There is not a single subversive who has not cost us. There is no other time in history when what's always been practically straight from God's origins that there has never been more evil to even be found in presents. The false are all liars. They as essentially depend upon everyone else to support their best habits.
#14710488
Atlantis wrote:The scary part of it is that the Nazi killers were very ordinary people, what Hannah Arendt called the Banality of Evil. Civilization is only skin deep. Underneath there is an ocean of dog-eat-dog chaos. Extreme conditions, like the power vacuum and depression after WWI, can lead to mob rule.

I have also read some analyses that it was due to the black and silver uniforms of the SS that they were able to instill ruthlessness into their clan. Brainwashing usually starts with widespread propaganda. It is then reinforced in special training camps covering several months of intense stressful training.

This type of hate must be trained. It is not natural.
#14710491
yiostheoy wrote:I have also read some analyses that it was due to the black and silver uniforms of the SS that they were able to instill ruthlessness into their clan. Brainwashing usually starts with widespread propaganda. It is then reinforced in special training camps covering several months of intense stressful training.

Every organisation or movement has its own means for assuring group loyalty. That is not specific to the Nazis. Group pressure is enough, even on social media, to make people do or say things that must appear wrong to anybody capable of independent thinking.

Himmler's attitude shows a lack of compassion towards humans not belonging to his own group. That is identical to the lack of compassion shown by hate commentaries on the social media about refugees who escape from war-torn cities and who drown by the thousands in the Mediterranean. Posterity will judge Europe in the refugee crisis as harshly as we judge the holocaust.

This type of hate must be trained. It is not natural.

No, it happens quite spontaneously. It just needs a political trigger for humans to become animals. Hutus just took the next machete to hack Tutsis to death. They didn't need any training. The brutality shown in the Tutsi genocide like in many other massacres beats the holocaust. What makes the holocaust special is not the brutality, it is the industrial scale of the genocide.
#14710507
After the mass killing, Himmler had a "banquet" with SS officers.
:lol: Really who writes this drivel, do they feel no embarrassment?

Did Churchill, Harris or any of the other leading perpetrators of the German holocaust stop eating before or after major bombing raids? Did not the British and American bomber crews actually take picnics and snacks along with them on their missions over German as they rained down death terror and destruction on Germany's cites? Did British, French and later American leaders refrain from eating as they cynically planned the starvation of the German people through blockade in world war I. A cynical starvation which continued even after the German people foolish laid down their arms in return for Wilson's lying promises in November 1918.

I have no problem with those who took up arms against the Nazi regime, when the Nazis regime was actually around, or any of their methods. War is war. Its quite different from Lawn tennis, but I'm implacably imposed to the vile racist post world II ideology of anti-Nazism. Anti-Nazism, the both absurd but deeply sinister view that Nazism was some sort of special sort of evil. If Adolph Hitler had been leader of El Salvador no one would have given a fuck. When they attack the Nazis they attack every White Infidel Goy.

First they came for the Nazis but I was not a Nazis so I did nothing.
Then they came for the Fascists, but I was not a fascist so I did nothing.
Then ..........
#14710541
Rich wrote:Really who writes this drivel, do they feel no embarrassment?

He said, without a hint of irony.

I have no problem with those who took up arms against the Nazi regime, when the Nazis regime was actually around, or any of their methods. War is war. Its quite different from Lawn tennis, but I'm implacably imposed to the vile racist post world II ideology of anti-Nazism. Anti-Nazism, the both absurd but deeply sinister view that Nazism was some sort of special sort of evil. If Adolph Hitler had been leader of El Salvador no one would have given a fuck. When they attack the Nazis they attack every White Infidel Goy.

Ah yes, the ol' Nazis are the real victims card. Hey, I agree that a lot of horrible things happened on the way to winning WW2. That doesn't mean that the Nazis weren't a peculiar type of industrial murder machine, or that the Japanese didn't engage in some of the sickest human experimentation one could dream of.

Nice dogwhistle anti-semitism by the way.

First they came for the Nazis but I was not a Nazis so I did nothing.
Then they came for the Fascists, but I was not a fascist so I did nothing.
Then ..........

...we had a party because we got rid of all the shitheads?
#14710543
Atlantis wrote:"Every organisation or movement has its own means for assuring group loyalty. That is not specific to the Nazis. Group pressure is enough, even on social media, to make people do or say things that must appear wrong to anybody capable of independent thinking.

Himmler's attitude shows a lack of compassion towards humans not belonging to his own group. That is identical to the lack of compassion shown by hate commentaries on the social media about refugees who escape from war-torn cities and who drown by the thousands in the Mediterranean. Posterity will judge Europe in the refugee crisis as harshly as we judge the holocaust.


...What makes the holocaust special is not the brutality, it is the industrial scale of the genocide.
What makes your lies better if they were ever to ever have once been buried straight under, or as of, inside of Atlantis? A liar is a liar who will only be justified when he is sent to how hell fires. Posterity will be the judgments. Nothing else matters.

The bombing of Dresden, as well as all of those other more hidden crimes, of posing tangets as the truth, that all liars, all murderers, all capstones taken off of our pyramids, shall account for being worthy of death's entrances.

If there was a real true genocide, it was conducted against the Germans, and that has been for actually a very long time, that only the fool will continue to push such an abomination, that the Germans were the ones murdered in those wars, as were more Europeans.

And Winston Churchill was part and parcel in the sinking of the Lusitania before Germany said we will baricade your jew wars with torpedoes that if you dare send a single sailing ship filled with passengers it will be sunk but that's your fault you most committed allies to all of the white race is to be destroyed by treasons.

WWII was won so that Mr. Erdogan of Turkey can wage war against our very own people so they can let in the pedophiles?
#14710653
Rich wrote:Did Churchill, Harris or any of the other leading perpetrators of the German holocaust stop eating before or after major bombing raids? Did not the British and American bomber crews actually take picnics and snacks along with them on their missions over German as they rained down death terror and destruction on Germany's cites?

You, who claims to be able to differentiate between war and lawn tennis are obviously incapable of differentiating between the senseless genocide of unarmed civilians in gas chambers and the armed combat between soldiers. How come, this selective amnesia?

If Adolph Hitler had been leader of El Salvador no one would have given a fuck. When they attack the Nazis they attack every White Infidel Goy.

Precisely! Nobody would have cared about an El Salvadorian Hitler, just like nobody cared about Idi Amin. But you have to build an enemy image of those you want to remove for geopolitical reasons, like Hitler or Saddam Hussein.
#14710667
Atlantis wrote:You, who claims to be able to differentiate between war and lawn tennis are obviously incapable of differentiating between the senseless genocide of unarmed civilians in gas chambers and the armed combat between soldiers. How come, this selective amnesia?
:lol: Sorry Atlantis didn't you realise that de-housing was euthemism for the systematic extermination of the German working class. The areas targeted for potential firestorms were the dense wooden working class housing areas. When Britain exterminated may be fifty thousand people in Hamburg in a week they were not targeting enemmy soldiers, they were targeting civilians in perhaps the most anti Nazi city in Germany. The overwhelming majority of the working class in Hamburg in 1932 rejected the Nazis. Of course many were children or adults two young to vote in 1932.

Yes of course the rounding up of Germany's and other countries Jews was a senseless act, the Nazis overarching conspiracy of international Jewry including bankers and Communist, Orthodox and libertines was pure fantasy. Hitler and the Nazi leadership needed to go. There could be no compromise with them after Hitler's betrayal of the Munich agreement. However that Commi loving piece of gargage Roosevelt's unconditional surrender policy was totally wicked and to see Nazi enthusiasts today as a priority is deeply misguided if not downright malicious.
#14710671
@Rich, viewed from today's moral standards, the targeting of residential areas in Hamburg and Dresden (just like the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) are crimes against humanity. They did, however, have a military objective. The holocaust cannot be justified as necessary cruelty to beat an enemy at war.

PS: Unlike Japanese cities in those days, residential housing districts that were targeted in the bombing of Hamburg and Dresden consisted mostly of brick buildings not wooden structures.
#14710680
Atlantis wrote:@Rich, viewed from today's moral standards, the targeting of residential areas in Hamburg and Dresden (just like the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) are crimes against humanity. They did, however, have a military objective. The holocaust cannot be justified as necessary cruelty to beat an enemy at war.
I don't agree with the anti Jewish policies. I don't agree with that racism. For the people like Ludendorf who sealed trained Lenin, stuffed his pockets with gold and made the Brest Litosk treat to complain about Jewish Bolshevism was absurd. The Jews were only the enemy of Nazi Germany because the Nazis made them an enemy by insulting, bullying, degrading, stealing form them and assaulting them. However given that they had made them an enemy, rounding them up and later killing them when their was a food shortage and a manpower shortage, prisoners require guards, was perfectly rational.

If the Warsaw pact had crossed the East German border we were prepared to use nuclear weapons, how is that different from allied bombing in World War II? All talk of moral progress in our war fighting methods in nonsense when we haven't fought an all out war against a comparable enemy since the Nazis. And even so we've knowingly supported genocidal regimes when its suited our leaders purposes. I admire and commend the Nazis for having the moral courage to do their own dirty weak rather than our pathetic need to have others do our dirty work for us.

I have far more respect for Heinrich Himmler than those people who argue that we needed Gadaffi to mange our immigration or we had to defer to Saddam to control Iraq's Sunni Muslim jihadists. Guantanamo Bay was a pathetic attempt to pretend to ourselves that we are not the beta cucks to Muslims that we are. Carpet bombing Mecca and Islamabad was the genuinely assertive response to 9/11.
#14710863
Rich wrote:... rounding them up and later killing them when their was a food shortage and a manpower shortage, prisoners require guards, was perfectly rational. ...

I have far more respect for Heinrich Himmler than those people who argue that we needed Gadaffi to mange our immigration or we had to defer to Saddam to control Iraq's Sunni Muslim jihadists. ...

I would rather not know what the term "rational" means to people who sh*t on the Geneva convention.

We didn't want Saddam to handle our refugee crisis. We didn't want Anglo imperialists to create the refugee crisis. That's not the same. You must be the last person on this planet who is still trying to justify the Iraq invasion.
#14710869
The Nazis didn't consider what they were doing to be bad. They considered mass killings (direct or indirect) to be unpleasant "necessary business" to win the war and/or improve Europe genetically in the face of foreign races they considered to be parasitic (Jews, Gypsies) or less gifted (most Slavic groups, against which in contrast to Jews/Gypsies there was no systematic genocide attempt). This was also in a context of wartime in a struggle to death with the egalitarians, with limited food and resources they considered was being wasted on these groups.

Generally, Nazi killers were well adjusted psychologically and had no penchant towards sadism, unlike what is often portrayed in the hundreds of Hollywood and other films portraying this period. They considered National Socialism to be justified both in terms of the Western philosophical tradition (where heredity and especially aristocracy are major themes) and in being in line with the reality of the biological world as a Darwinian struggle for survival. The plan was for the German people to be systematically led by its most nationalist/racist/soldierly elements in order that it evolve ever upward, eventually going into space and sci fi, etc. The Nazis of course lost - in large part due to Hitler's excesses - and the indigenous Germans, long before the end of the century, will probably become a minority in their own country as a result, replaced by Africans and Muslims. Who, admittedly, do not have a strong track record of science and technology (Muslims for 1000 years, Africans ever, basically).

The Western bomber pilots who incinerated hundreds of thousands of innocent German and Japanese civilians similarly did not consider themselves evil. Nor did the men in the East who organized the mass rape of millions of German women or the ethnic cleansing of millions of German civilians, nor did their enablers in the West (Churchill, Roosevelt). In great conflicts, people tend to consider that the ends justify the means. In their case, the democrats and communists claimed their mass killings were justified in the name of equality between nations and individuals.

But.. many argue the idea that nations and individuals are equal is just stupid and obviously false. Why is equality only limited to humans? Are there simply no standards? Is the Congolese contribution to world history "equal" to Greek objectively, or is the issue that acknowledging difference would hurt people's feelings? In what sense was Mozart "equal" to recidivist gang-rapist?

Many questions.

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