Russian Rapes During World War 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The Second World War (1939-1945).
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#864657
Our “noble” Russian allies. Great Patriotic War.
In case you ever had any doubts that Russia underwent serious moral and Spiritual atrophy under communism then read this.


Red Army Rapists Exposed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1939174.stm


Red Army soldiers raped two million German women, and thousands of Soviet women in occupied Eastern Europe, says a book published on Monday.

Mr. Beevor, whose previous book Stalingrad became a best-seller, says in Berlin alone it was estimated up to 130,000 women were raped, of whom up to 10,000 committed suicide.

Altogether two million German women are believed to have been raped and almost half of those suffered gang rape.

One woman was raped by 23 soldiers.

Mr. Beevor said he was shocked by what he found during his research of German and Soviet archives.

He said the widespread rape suggested "there is a dark area of male sexuality which can emerge all too easily, especially in war, when there are no social and disciplinary restraints."

He said the Soviet hierarchy turned a blind eye, and even condoned the rape as a form of revenge for what the German Army - the Wehrmacht - had done during Operation Barbarossa.

Mr Beevor said: "As the Red Army example shows, the practice of collective rape can even become a form of bonding process."

But Mr. Beevor said the book's claims, while uncomfortable, were backed up by documents which he had found in the Russian state archives.

"The rape of German women was previously known from German archives but I believe this is the first time the fact that Soviet citizens were raped has been published in the West," he told BBC News Online.

He said many people in Russia were still struggling to come to terms with what the Red Army did during the war.

Mr. Beevor said: "I was shaken to the core when I discovered that soldiers raped female prisoners of war.

"That completely undermined the notion that they were only using rape as a form of revenge against the Germans.

He said women became "carnal booty" during the war.

The Wehrmacht had abducted many Russian and Ukrainian girls and set them up in "military brothels".

The Red Army, for its part, had engaged in an "alcohol-induced frenzy of sadism and humiliation".



Red Army troops even raped Russian women they freed from camps

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

THE Red Army's orgy of rape in the dying days of Nazi Germany was conducted on a much greater scale than previously suspected, according to a new book by the military historian Anthony Beevor.

Beevor, the author of the best-selling Stalingrad, says advancing Soviet troops raped large numbers of Russian and Polish women held in concentration camps, as well as millions of Germans.

The extent of the Red Army's indiscipline and depravity emerged as the author studied Soviet archives for his forthcoming book Berlin, to be published in April by Viking.

Beevor - who was educated at Sandhurst and served in the 11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own), an elite cavalry regiment - says details of the Soviet soldiers' behaviour have forced him to revise his view of human nature.

"In many ways the fate of the women and the girls in Berlin is far worse than that of the soldiers starving and suffering in Stalingrad."



Allied War Crimes:
The Greatest Mass Rape in History


http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs9512d.html

As the Red Army advanced toward her in 1945, the city of Berlin had become a city virtually without men. Out of a civilian population of 2,700,000, 2,000,000 were women. It is small wonder that the fear of sexual attack raced through the city like a plague. Doctors were besieged by patients seeking information on the quickest way to commit suicide, and poison was in great demand.

In Berlin stood a charity institution, the Haus Dehlem, an orphanage, maternity hospital, and foundling home. Soviet soldiers entered the home, and repeatedly raped pregnant women and women who had just given birth. This was not an isolated incident. No one will ever know how many women were raped, but doctors' estimates run as high as 100,000 for the city of Berlin alone, their ages ranging from 10 to 70.

On March 24, 1945, our "noble Soviet allies" entered Danzig. A 50-year-old Danzig teacher reported that her niece, 15, was raped seven times, and her other niece, 22, was raped fifteen times. A Soviet officer told a group of women to seek safety in the Cathedral. Once they were securely locked inside, the beasts of Bolshevism entered, and ringing the bells and playing the organ, "celebrated" a foul orgy through the night, raping all the women, some more than thirty times. A Catholic pastor in Danzig declared, "They violated even eight-year-old girls and shot boys who tried to shield their mothers."

The Most Reverend Bernard Griffin, British Archbishop, made a tour of Europe to study conditions there, and reported, "In Vienna alone they raped 100,000 women, not once but many times, including girls not yet in their teens, and aged women."

A Lutheran pastor in Germany, in a letter of August 7, 1945, to the Bishop of Chichester, England, describes how a fellow pastor's "two daughters and a grandchild (ten years of age) suffer from gonorrhoea, [as a] result of rape" and how "Mrs. N. was killed when she resisted an attempt to rape her," while her daughter was "raped and deported, allegedly to Omsk, Siberia, for indoctrination."

The day after our noble Soviet allies conquered Neisse, Silesia, 182 Catholic nuns were raped. In the diocese of Kattowitz 66 pregnant nuns were counted. In one convent when the Mother Superior and her assistant tried to protect the younger nuns with outstretched arms, they were shot down. A priest reported in Nord Amerika magazine for November 1, 1945, that he knew "several villages where all the women, even the aged and girls as young as twelve, were violated daily for weeks by the Russians."




'They raped every German female from eight to 80'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,36 ... 35,00.html

"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."

The Soviet armies advancing into East Prussia in January 1945, in huge, long columns, were an extraordinary mixture of modern and medieval: tank troops in padded black helmets, Cossack cavalrymen on shaggy mounts with loot strapped to the saddle, lend-lease Studebakers and Dodges towing light field guns, and then a second echelon in horse-drawn carts. The variety of character among the soldiers was almost as great as that of their military equipment. There were freebooters who drank and raped quite shamelessly, and there were idealistic, austere communists and members of the intelligentsia appalled by such behaviour.

Estimates of rape victims from the city's two main hospitals ranged from 95,000 to 130,000. One doctor deduced that out of approximately 100,000 women raped in the city, some 10,000 died as a result, mostly from suicide. The death rate was thought to have been much higher among the 1.4 million estimated victims in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. Altogether at least two million German women are thought to have been raped, and a substantial minority, if not a majority, appear to have suffered multiple rape.

If anyone attempted to defend a woman against a Soviet attacker it was either a father trying to defend a daughter or a young son trying to protect his mother. "The 13-year old Dieter Sahl," neighbours wrote in a letter shortly after the event, "threw himself with flailing fists at a Russian who was raping his mother in front of him. He did not succeed in anything except getting himself shot."




http://www.leftwatch.com/discussion/ful ... sgnum=3278

In criticism of the article: "The total number of women who were raped by the Red Army necessarily remains unknown, but Beevor points out that there were about two million illegal abortions performed in Eastern Germany from 1945-1948 -- an astounding number considering that there were only about 15 million women in East Germany."
By MatthewJ
#864660
Oh well, never mind. Still, the more people are reminded of it the better. I will read the other thread in detail later.
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#864676
In case you ever had any doubts that Russia underwent serious moral and Spiritual atrophy under communism then read this.


Your right, the Soviets should have been stedfast. They should have done to Germany what Germany had attempted to do to Russia.
.. Germany would then have been renamed Novoyarussia some time in the 60s :p
By Russkie
#864774
Germany would then have been renamed Novoyarussia some time in the 60s


Not a bad idea at all. :evil:
User avatar
By baconstyle
#864813
In case you ever had any doubts that Russia underwent serious moral and Spiritual atrophy under communism then read this.


I don't think the rapes are due to moral and spiritual atrophy under communism. It had to do with the long, hard war, and an overwhelming hatred for the nation that caused such casualties. Authority broke down, and Soviet leaders understood what was happening but allowed it to.

This, unfortunately, is the human condition. I see it as quite similar to what happened when the Japanese raped Nanjing.
User avatar
By Charles Foster Kane
#864881
Authority broke down, and Soviet leaders understood what was happening but allowed it to.


No, they've supported as way of them "express" their anger with Hitler, the war, and Stalin himself.
User avatar
By Lokakyy
#864889
No, they've supported as way of them "express" their anger with Hitler, the war, and Stalin himself.


No, they turned a blind eye to it or in some cases condoned it. It wasn't supported verbally nor did the Soviet authorities encourage such practices. Bad still, but different from supporting. In a way, Soviet authorities can be blamed for not stopping the raping, but I have seen no evidence supporting the argument that they actually directly incited them.

I suggest you read the article - or possibly, source your claim.
User avatar
By Red Rebel
#864975
Yes Im sure the Red Army did rape about 2 million Germans. But it didn't stop have anything to do with Communism. Army soilders have always raped civilian populations. The Red Army had more soilders, logically, there were more rapes.

But several factors added to the fact that there were more rapes:
1. Stalins revenge on Germany.
2. Lack of command to stop it.
User avatar
By jaakko
#865103
1. Stalins revenge on Germany.

Stalin's? When did Stalin = USSR?
User avatar
By Eddier1
#865315
Our �noble� Russian allies. Great Patriotic War.
In case you ever had any doubts that Russia underwent serious moral and Spiritual atrophy under communism


Wrong! the atrophy was caused by the invasion of the Soviet Union, in which millions of Russian women were raped and cerca 24 million of the Russian communists lost their lives at the hands of the WAFFEN.

A communist is a human, and can lose moral control like any human being who is pushed beyond the limits by the brutality of war. The Nazis knew how to break humans, and received the fruits of their war crimes in the actions which Antony Beevor ascribed to some "dark and unknown abyss' in humans, in which what comes out of that abyss looks into humans and possesses them with its heinous dark influences.

It had nothing to do with communism!, but was ultimately an abysmal problem of human beings. The problem was a psychological one and not really a "political problem".
By | I, CWAS |
#865326
A communist is a human, and can lose moral control like any human being who is pushed beyond the limits by the brutality of war.


Which pretty much spells trouble for any communist soceity. Nature cannot be repressed on a macrocosmic scale?
User avatar
By Nattering Nabob
#865356
He said the Soviet hierarchy turned a blind eye, and even condoned the rape as a form of revenge for what the German Army - the Wehrmacht - had done during Operation Barbarossa.



...the Soviets were pissed at the Germans...Omar Bradley related in "A Soldiers Story" that he was giving a tour of his HQ to some visiting Soviet generals when they spotted a German prisoner...the generals asked the prisoner..."Do you know what we are going to do to Germans after the war?"...the prisoner replied..."Break Germany into pieces?"...the generals answered..."Not Germany....Germans."
User avatar
By Eddier1
#865454
Which pretty much spells trouble for any communist soceity. Nature cannot be repressed on a macrocosmic scale?


In the highest stage, which is communism, it is expected that humans will develop into the 'new people of communism' -- no state, no incarceration institutions, and no repression in any way, shape, or form.

The communists will then administer their morality according to social forms which will make the baser urges which lead to rape, murder, and theft nonexistent. But all this will not happen overnight; since the state will wither away and all class antagonisms will be resolved -- including the dialectical one between men and women. In short, the battle of the sexes will become extinct.

You might say that nature will not cooperate, but the communist will answer that nature can be tamed!, and a new and better society will become a reality. This is not utopian stuff, but based on the use of scientific method, and is another reason we refer to communism as scientific socialism.
By PolarBear
#866077
Stalins orders were to send anyone who raped or killed civilians to gulags.

What the Russians did was individual desisions of some soldiers and not the will of the Russian command.

Many were actually sent to gulags because of rapes and murders of civilians.
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#866357
visiting Soviet generals when they spotted a German prisoner...the generals asked the prisoner..."Do you know what we are going to do to Germans after the war?"...the prisoner replied..."Break Germany into pieces?"...the generals answered..."Not Germany....Germans."



Other then pointing out the rather low intelligence of a specific German soldier, what is the point of this quote?

- and what was the rest of it (if any)?
By Shade2
#866400
It is fact that rapes existed but the fact that many German women often prostituted themselfs to Soviet and Allied soldiers for food or other goods is often avoided in German publications.
..the Soviets were pissed at the Germans...

Actually they often beat, robbed and harrassed non-Germans with equal passion. The coming of Red Army to Poland was no picnic for Poles either.
By PolarBear
#866489
Actually they often beat, robbed and harrassed non-Germans with equal passion. The coming of Red Army to Poland was no picnic for Poles either.


But they were treated with flowers and hot food by the greatful Poles.
By Napuljun
#866522
What a stupid thread indeed.

First of all who is Anthony Beevor? Anthony Beever a veteran in the British army (who lived the tension of the cold war) is no proffessional historian but just an ethusisast who studied a bit of military history and published some books. Yes his books are best sellers but take a look at the sources he takes about his assumptions. Were is his index of sources? I have most of his books and well the original primary souces are always playing hide and seek...

I'm sure the Soviets didn't take account of how many girls their soldiers raped and I'm sure he didn't count all the rape convictions adding them all together and resulting into up to two million. Oh and neither do I think that a British Army Official is the ideal person to study Soviet history (especially during Stalin's era).

Rape and looting is a common factor of frustrated soldiers by the conditions of war. It happens every day, and now mostly present in Africa. Soviet troops raped like all the others but this gross exegeration of the Red Army Rape is nothing less but defamation of the Red Army. The Red Army won the war, and the allies are pretty mad about it. Ha!
User avatar
By Vladimir
#866526
Of course our enemies' women were raped. Germans deserved all they got.
Our “noble” Russian allies.

"You" are irrelevant to the war. Russia was in effect the only country who held victory.
Great Patriotic War.

Why is rape of enemy women incompatible with patriotism?
In case you ever had any doubts that Russia underwent serious moral and Spiritual atrophy under communism then read this.

Communism is irrelevant in this particular case. However, I must agree that Russia did have a spiritual downfall during Lenin and Stalin. Moral to some extent, too. But not atrophy, merely downfall.
Last edited by Vladimir on 05 May 2006 12:53, edited 1 time in total.
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