[Spin]

What if WW1 didnt happen? Would the USSR have come about? Would there still be imperialism?

How would the world look now?

Your views please.

[Dark_Stalin]

WWI was a result of imperialism so i cant relate that. Wars are horrible but they are the ones that enlighten us most and give innovation. the USSR still would exist as Tzar Nikolai was stupid...

[DeaExMachina]

The motives for the Bolshevic revolution were firmly in place before WWI. All the money was in the hands of a few, as was the power. Without Justice, civilisation broke down until a sembalance of Justice returned.

[liberalist]

No WW1 - then I would suggest no Bolshevik revolution. I say that because WW1 created the conditions that enabled a revolution. In 1905 there was a revolt (uprising, revolution whatever), but it failed. One of the reasons for this failure was the loyalty of the army to the Tsarist regime. But, WW1 created such unrest within the army that they began to despise the Tsar, and thus, when the revoution came they did nothing to stop it. Also, the war helped diffuse the myth that the Tsar was supreme and it helped remove his godlike stature.
All these conditions may have eventually manifested themselves in some kind of revolt, but I dont think Bolshevism would have come about if there was no WW1

[Liberal]

Yes, I agree with liberalist. The political and economic situation in Russia before the WW1 was not appropriate for revolution. When the economic crisse started to get worse during the war, Lenin saw it as an ambodyment of his prediction: that the end of capitalism is getting near. However, he was not completly right. The basis of the economic crises in Russia were political, so it had little to do with the dissolution of the capitalism as economic system. The WW1, and the defeats of the Russian army on the fronts was the crutial element that enabled the revolution.
However, this is only a view. We can never be 100% sure what would have happened with Russia if the WW1 didn`t started.

[Spin]

Do you reckon that had Lenin succeded that the Imperial powers would have intervened like they did in 1918 but that they would have been successful?

Wasnt there a revoloution then the new gov treid to keep fighting the war then the Bolsheviks came to power?

[Al Khabir]

War was inevitable- but not world war. if teh conflict had remaine simply between Germany, Austria, Russia, Italy and France then it's quite possible that Germany would be a superpower today. But it's equally possible that something would have happened between then and now to change that.

[jaakko]

Wasnt there a revoloution then the new gov treid to keep fighting the war then the Bolsheviks came to power?

Yes, in the same year. First the bourgeois February revolution, then October (November) which ended the participation in the war which the bourgeois government had continued.

[Groovesmith]

Its pretty hard not to imagine European international relations, witjhout bleeding out into a major world war. The war of 1914 was just one more step....if Franz Ferdinand had not triggered it---surely something else in the future would have. But if seriously considering the WHAT IF nature I would suggest the following:

Without the War, the Tsar *might* have kept a grip on his country if he had reformed enough. The conditions for the revolution were already emplace...since the 1900's revolutionary movments were gaining momemtum...the world war merely accelerated the process. It made conditions so shitty... so massive that it really affected everyone and when those ladies wanted bread in febuary and they had none... they were pretty pissed off the Tsar was gone.

It would be also interesting to imagine what would have happened if Russia had won, a short decisive war agaisnt Germany. The masses react quite interestingly to spurges of Nationalism--from which a new faith might be inspired in their Tsar. Winning a war would have denied the possiblity (temporarily at least - perhaps) that the russian masses were being ruled by munkies.

But...in general terms had the Tsar done nothing to reform (if no war had come to existence) a revolution would have still come life; although, it would have taken much much longer.

But really to speak of a European War that did not happen... is quite hard. That war was the culmination of so mkany things...although it could have been delayed all the geo-political/social forces of ther early 19 /20 century came out to life. It would have been quite difficult for that war not to comeabout. Especially with an incident like June 28th

[Esteban]

the USSR still would exist as Tzar Nikolai was stupid...

I agree. Nikolai was a complete moron. The Russian Revolutioin was inevitable as long as the Tzars were in power.

[Captain Hat]

The only thing World War I did, was to speed up the process. The Russian Revolution was inevitable and the war was simply the coup de grace.

[liberalist]

The only thing World War I did, was to speed up the process. The Russian Revolution was inevitable and the war was simply the coup de grace.

How so? Lenin had been booted out of Russia, and without the Germans he probably would have been unable to return. The Tsar had crushed attempted revolutions in the past using the army (eg 1905), so what evidence is there that the army would have abandoned him all of a sudden?

[Groovesmith]

How so? Lenin had been booted out of Russia, and without the Germans he probably would have been unable to return. The Tsar had crushed attempted revolutions in the past using the army (eg 1905), so what evidence is there that the army would have abandoned him all of a sudden?

I remind you Lib... it was not Lenin who overthrew the Tsar...

[Spin]

I reckon Russia might well have had a western style democracy since the Blosheviks only seized power after the gov had tried to continue on with WW1

[Gothmog]

-Tzarist Russia was already facing social unrest BEFORE WWI (the number of strikes had a sharp increase in 1913). The combined and unequal development of Russia in the early 1900´s was increasing social tensions, agricultural production was almost stagnated on a per capita output (so the peasants, who were the vast majority of Russian people gained almost nothing from the short lived economic boom of early 1900´s), and a slowdown in the economy would have happened even if there were no WWI due to the huge external debt, add to this the unrest among non Russian nationalities and we have a gunpowder here. However, I think the tzarism could have survived a few more years if it wasn´t WWI. WWI exacerbated social tensions a lot and prevented the regime from using its huge army as a police force (like in 1905). On the other hand I doubt if, even withouth WWI, the old regime would have survived enough time to reform itself (actually the regime had a considerable aversion to reforms, and attempts to reform a declining political system can result in its own demise).

[jaakko]

How so? Lenin had been booted out of Russia, and without the Germans he probably would have been unable to return. The Tsar had crushed attempted revolutions in the past using the army (eg 1905), so what evidence is there that the army would have abandoned him all of a sudden?

I remind you Lib... it was not Lenin who overthrew the Tsar...

Yes, as it was already said in this very same thread...

Wasnt there a revoloution then the new gov treid to keep fighting the war then the Bolsheviks came to power?

Yes, in the same year. First the bourgeois February revolution, then October (November) which ended the participation in the war which the bourgeois government had continued.

[Comrade Osnowski]

One could argue that Britain or France could have gone the Communist route as Marx originally predicted. Proletarian living and wage conditions were atrocious. Capitalism only adapted itself because it needed the proles to fight their war...no war, perhaps more exploitation culminating in Revolution.

Russia should never have had a pot shot at Socialism, it was never ever going to work in such Feudal conditions

[Randomizer]

The fall of the Tsarism was probably inevitable due to time and idiocy. However replaced it was affected by WWI. As part of the conflict the Germans supported Bolsheviks which strengthened them and the war crippled Russian economy and created massive social unrest which temporatily greatly increased the number of people Bolsheviks could rely on and who when time came brought them to power. Without the war there would be no successful October Revolution.