[Liberal]

The Independent
THE DEPOPULATION OF ARMENIA

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September 27, 1915

The shocking news of the massacres, torture and deportation of Armenian Christians makes a special appeal to American sympathy and helpfulness. From numerous and reliable sources in Turkey it seems certain that this is not a matter of local disorders or petty oppression, but a systematic effort to extirpate the Armenian race. Thousands of families have been driven from their homes to starve upon the roads. Towns and villages have been divested of their inhabitants. Many are being put to torture to force them to renounce their Christian faith. Women are interned in the harems and children are sold as slaves.

These outrages cannot be excused on the ground of military necessity, for the regions devastated are in some cases beyond the reach of any possible Russian invasion and the Armenians have not manifested any disposition to revolt except where, as at Van, they have been driven to it in self-defense. It looks as though the Turks, despairing of maintaining their supremacy, were resolved to crush out the Armenians so as to forestall forever the establishment of an autonomous Armenia in case the Allies conquer Turkey.

But this is something in which we have a deep interest, for American money and American lives have been spent for the uplift of the oppressed peoples of the Ottoman Empire. The American Board of Commissioners of Foreign Missions has been at work in the Ottoman Empire for almost a century and has expended some twenty million dollars. There are now maintained in the Ottoman Empire ten American colleges; Robert College, Constantinople; Constantinople College for Girls; Syrian Protestant College, Beirut; International College, Smyrna; Anatolia College, Marsovan; Euphrates College, Harpoot; Aintab College; Central Turkey College, Marash; St. Paul's College, Tarsus; and Teachers College, Sivas. In these institutions and other schools there are over 40,000 pupils, a large proportion of whom are Armenians.

Thousands of Armenians have sought refuge in America from Turkish tyranny and have become good citizens of the United States. The present distress and imminent danger of the Armenians in Asia Minor will cause wide-spread concern in the United States.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

What goes around comes around. Turkey and their Jew supporters will get theirs.

[glinert]

You wonder why holocaust gets all attention and then you realize! Jews control much media in world.

[Todd D.]

What goes around comes around. Turkey and their Jew supporters will get theirs.

What the fuck? This was 1915, during the Ottoman Empire, before Israel was even created. This had to be written in jest.

You wonder why holocaust gets all attention and then you realize! Jews control much media in world.

That, or 6 million of them died from a planned, deliberate, and uniform method of attempted genocide. You know, either one.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

What goes around comes around. Turkey and their Jew supporters will get theirs.

What the fuck? This was 1915, during the Ottoman Empire, before Israel was even created. This had to be written in jest.

Israeli state officially did not exist yes, but Jews existed and there were plenty within the Ottoman empire. Many of them "converted" to Islam, but in reallity they did not, they still practiced their religion and had strict marriage laws within their own society. There is a word for them, they are called Donme -- Secret Jews amongst Muslims.

A lot of them made their way into the Ottoman empire in the 17th century where the ones who refused to convert to Catholisms were forced out of Spain.

Here, they would take their revenge against Christians. They proclaimed their devotion to Allah and agitated and ecouraged violence against Christians (Armenians, Greeks, Bulgars, .....), mostly Armenians though as Armenians were their biggest economic competion.

Eventually these Donme took power through a coup, they called themselves "Young Turks". DaddyTurk was a Donme (I could provide articles that show this).

Well you know what the Young Turks did. In Russia, the Bolsheviks overthrew the government and proceeded to sign away large portions of the Russian empire. In 1918 Turkey invaded Eastern Armenia (Armenia in the Russian empire), this time there was no Czarist Army, Armenians. by themselves, heavily outnumbered, defeated the Turks in 3 battles and forced them to withdraw, but then came the Bolsheviks, occupied the whole of the Caucasus, and gave away half of Armenia to Turkey. And to appease Ataturk some more, they gave Nahichevan and Nagorno-Karabagh to Azeri-Turks. Nahichevan was depopulated of its Armenian population. The important thing is that the Bolsheviks were over 95% Jews.

Now the existing Israel participates in Turkish blockade of Armenia, and Bronsteins and Golbergs write articles in the New Yourk Times about how wonderfully modern and democratic Turkey is. Representative Hasterdt, backed by the American Jewish lobby keeps the resolution on the Armenian genocide from coming to a vote in the congress.

So NO, this was not a jest.

[Liberal]

DaddyTurk was a Donme

This is very interesting statement and I find it quite strange to belive it. It would be nice if you could provide some evidence for this claim.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Background of the Donmes. Read the whole article here.

The Secret Jews, Joachim Prinz, 1973, pp. 111-122


..... In December 1686, more than three hundred families converted to Islam in Salonika. Like Shabtai and other Marranos, they continued to attend Jewish services secretly and observed certain Jewish customs in their homes.

This was the origin of the most important group, numerically and historically, of Islamic Marranos. The faithful Mohemmedans call these hidden Jews 'doenmehs', the renegades. ..... Over the years the 'doenmeh' movement became firmly established in Asia Minor. In the nineteenth century the sect was estimated to have twenty thousand members. Salonika remained its main seat until that city became Greek in 1913. Although the Jewish community remained there under Greek rule, the 'doenmehs' moved to Constantinople.

In Salonika in the early days of the movement the ten commandments "of our Lord King and Messiah Shabtai Zvi" were proclaimed by the 'doenmehs'. They still form the credo of the surviving 'doenmehs' of our time.

I shall meticulously adhere to the customs of the Turks so as not to arose their suspicion. I shall not only observe the Fast of Ramadan but all the other Muslim customs which are observed in public.

I shall not marry into a Muslim family nor maintain any intimate association with them, for they are to us an abomination and particularly their women.

From time to time the Turkish governors of Salonika, who received complaints about the sect from the Mohammedan clergy, tried to investigate the strange existence of the 'doenmehs'. Their clannishness, their refusal to mingle with Mohammedan families, and their marital restrictions had become a well-known fact, difficult to hide from the majority of the people among whom they had lived for many generations. Socially, they seemed impenetrable, although in their Moslem religious practices they were beyond reproach. In fact, they often seemed even more devout followers of the Prophet Mohammed and more sincere worshipers of Allah than the rest of the community. They fasted during Ramadan, and their leaders and adherents were found in large, even conspicuous numbers among the pilgrims to Mecca. It was well known that in the seventeenth century Joseph Zvi, one of the immediate followers of Shabtai Zvi and one of his inner circle, died on the way from his pilgrimage to Mecca, and the day of his death is still commemorated.

The revolt of the Young Turks in 1908 against the authoritarian regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid began among the intellectuals of Salonika. It was from there that the demand for a constitutional regime originated. Among the leaders of the revolution which resulted in a more modern government in Turkey were Djavid Bey and Mustafa Kemal. Both were ardent 'doenmehs'. Djavid Bey became minister of finance; Mustafa Kemal became the leader of the new regime and he adopted the name of Ataturk. His opponents tried to use his 'doenmeh' background to unseat him, but without success. Too many of the Young Turks in the newly formed revolutionary Cabinet prayed to Allah, but had as their real prophet Shabtai Zvi, the Messiah of Smyrna.

"It's My Secret Prayer, Too," He Confessed


The Young Turks: Who Were They?

Is this enough for now? Or would you like to see more articles about past and present Jewish agression against Armenians and other Christians?

[Liberal]

Quite interesting article.
Thank you for the information.

[Reichsführer Wilhelm]

Is this enough for now? Or would you like to see more articles about past and present Jewish agression against Armenians and other Christians?

I would like to see more of these articles, if you would be so kind as to post them.

[CCJ]

Believe me, the Christians have killed far more Jews than Jews have killed Christians.

[Essence]

ahaha This is very funny..Ataturk wasnt a donme..He was fully Turk.His father was Ali Rıza and his mother was Zübeyde..His religion was Islam..He was one of the biggest Turk Nationalists.if you read his book "Nutuk" you will understand.You can find many quotes from Atatürk that shows he is a fully Turk as "How Happy To Say I am a Turk!!"

i have many things to write,but i dont have time.Later i will write again...For Mustafa Kemal,For the one of The biggest Turk nationalist....ATAM İZİNDEYİZ...

[Liberal]

ahaha This is very funny..Ataturk wasnt a donme..He was fully Turk.His father was Ali Rıza and his mother was Zübeyde..His religion was Islam..He was one of the biggest Turk Nationalists.if you read his book "Nutuk" you will understand.You can find many quotes from Atatürk that shows he is a fully Turk as "How Happy To Say I am a Turk!!"

i have many things to write,but i dont have time.Later i will write again...For Mustafa Kemal,For the one of The biggest Turk nationalist....ATAM İZİNDEYİZ...

One could sence panic in those lines.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

ahaha This is very funny..Ataturk wasnt a donme..He was fully Turk.His father was Ali Rıza and his mother was Zübeyde..His religion was Islam..He was one of the biggest Turk Nationalists.if you read his book "Nutuk" you will understand.You can find many quotes from Atatürk that shows he is a fully Turk as "How Happy To Say I am a Turk!!"

Hence the first rule of the donme doctrine:

I shall meticulously adhere to the customs of the Turks so as not to arose their suspicion. I shall not only observe the Fast of Ramadan but all the other Muslim customs which are observed in public.

Looks like it worked on you.

[Essence]

One could sence panic in those lines.

Not panic it is anger..Anger against lies,againts anti-Turk propoganda,against people who knows what they are saying arent true but continuing saying it because of succeding their aim " propoganda".

At least whole world knows that Atatürk is a %100 Turk.He won battles against armenians,english,french,russian etc.He won them for his nation.He served this country.If you need a source to believe Atatürk is %100 Turk,read his book..it is enough..
Btw it is impossible for ataturk to be donme,because his mother and his father migrated from Anadolu.mainland of Turks. investigate it a little bit more from objective sources not armenian propoganda sources..

[Liberal]

Not panic it is anger..Anger against lies,againts anti-Turk propoganda,against people who knows what they are saying arent true but continuing saying it because of succeding their aim " propoganda".

Yes, anger is legitimate when the "father" is attacked for commiting a genocide. Many nazis and neo-nazis are angry when someone attacks Hitler.

At least whole world knows that Atatürk is a %100 Turk.He won battles against armenians,english,french,russian etc.He won them for his nation.He served this country.If you need a source to believe Atatürk is %100 Turk,read his book..it is enough..
Btw it is impossible for ataturk to be donme,because his mother and his father migrated from Anadolu.mainland of Turks. investigate it a little bit more from objective sources not armenian propoganda sources..

Napoleon Bonaparte was the leader of the revolution, emperor of France etc... still, he was not French by origine. He was descident of an italian fammily that migrated in Corsica. So, your claims may mean nothing.

[Essence]

Yes, anger is legitimate when the "father" is attacked for commiting a genocide. Many nazis and neo-nazis are angry when someone attacks Hitler.

Ataturk and Hitler.. i wont make comment on this.You dont know history;there was no genocide against Armenian#1 and Ataturk was the most peaceful man in that times.You dont know what you are talking about.it is imposibble for Ataturk,because he was in Gallipolli war..And he was only a litenuant.He didnt have any authority to do that thing you say.At least there isnt anything sth. like genocide.i explained it before,wont repeat.Again and Again

Napoleon Bonaparte was the leader of the revolution, emperor of France etc... still, he was not French by origine. He was descident of an italian fammily that migrated in Corsica. So, your claims may mean nothing

For you it means nothing,but for us it means many things..This is a Lie and everybody should learn the truths..This means many things.. [/quote]

[Liberal]

Ataturk and Hitler.. i wont make comment on this.You dont know history;there was no genocide against Armenian#1 and Ataturk was the most peaceful man in that times.You dont know what you are talking about.it is imposibble for Ataturk,because he was in Gallipolli war..And he was only a litenuant.He didnt have any authority to do that thing you say.At least there isnt anything sth. like genocide.i explained it before,wont repeat.Again and Again

Tell that to the Armenians that survived the genocide.

[Essence]

Tell that to the Armenians that survived the genocide.

Yeah,you can also ask Turks who saw armenian's burning villages,killing women and babies..This events started with Russian's movements..Russian burned an Armenian Village than said Turks did,and burned a Turk Village,than said Armenian did.After this provoketions two sides start killing each other.Before this Armenian and Turks were living peacefully.and i am repeating there isnt anything like genocide.You can find mass-graves in Agrı,ığdır that belongs to Turks by killed Armenians.And about 75.000-100.000 armenian was megrating.Because the state wanted to end this and send armenians to another Ottoman land -syria..When they were migrating they died from cold with Turkish Soldiers.And 75.000-100.000ARmenian died in total..This is not genocide..You can look at the web site for more info,that i gave the adress...

[Liberal]

It is estimated that one and a half million Armenians perished between 1915 and 1923. There were an estimated two million Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire on the eve of WW1. Well over a million were deported in 1915. Hundreds of thousands were butchered outright. Many others died of starvation, exhaustion, and epidemics which ravaged the concentration camps. Among the Aemenians living along the periphery of the Ottoman Empire many ar first escaped the fate of their countrymen in the central provinces of Turkey. Tens of thousands in the east fled to the Russian border to lead a precariouse existence as refugees. The majority of the Armenians in Constantinopole, the capital city, were spared deportation, In 1918, however, the Young Turk regime took the war on the Caucasus, where aproximatly 1.800.000 Aemrnians lived under Russian dominion. Ottomans forced advancing through East Armenia and Azerbaijan here too engaged in systematic massacres. The expulsion and massacres carried by the Nationalist Turks between 1920 and 1922 added tens of htousands of more victims. By 1923 the entire landmass of Asia Minor and historic Western Armenia had been expunged of it`s Armenian population. The destruction of the Armenian communities in the part of the world wars was total.

[Essence]

i know what happened and all objective historians,people know that..1.500.000Armenian this is really funny..There wasnt any genocide actions and 75.000-100.000Armenian died,not 1.500.000 ?? ..Btw you are stucked in some sentences,ideas what i will say nothing will change..Than believe in what you want to believe and i continue believing in truth.. This is a choice..Go on than...