[MB.]

Butcher, Genius, or merely a man caught in the middle?

[Eggie]

I'd say Butcher/man caught in the middle. Although my knowledge does not go deep into all of Haig's battles I do know many of his battles and I think he was just doing it the "right way" for the time, that is to say that he virtual set my styreotype for British officers. Very arrogant about the capablities of his troops and very sure of himself.

[repr0bate]

Incompetent buffoon. Not that he was any worse than most other officers at that time. Ignorant 'educated' upper class ex-private schoolboys who think that just throwing huge numbers of men in the mix will always get the desired result. He used the same tried old tactics against an organised enemy who were dug in and knew exactly what was coming.

Haig used the prolonged bombardment assuming it would wipe out the enemy, then the men could just walk across no man's land and into the trenches. Very easy to defend against; all the Germans did was dig into their concrete reinforced bunkers and sit out the inneffective barrage. Then when the barrage stops that gives them plenty of warning that the charge is about to happen and plenty of time to set up the machine guns in preparation for the lines of men walking towards them. Good one Haig, real subltle.

[Rokossovsky]

Unfortunatly Haig was following tactics endemic to the British Army at the time, he wasnt the only 'butcher'. As the Somme was one of the worst instances of WW1 Haig has become synonymous with military disaster and butchery. But thats no excuse.

[Lord_Tito]

the same ase repr0bate

this could have been prevented if the officers had studied the effects of the american civil war

[MB.]

this could have been prevented if the officers had studied the effects of the american civil war

I disagree. Barbed wire had not yet then been inveneted, nor had the Bolt Action Rifle, the Machine Gun or heavy artillery.

Infact, in studying the Civil War one would only come to the conclusion that Calvary was capable of penetrating dugouts...

[Lord_Tito]

nja a dissagre, a primitv form of the machinegun was used during the civil war,....

[MB.]

Got a source on that?

[Rokossovsky]

The American Civil war was one of the new modern 'brutal' wars with Soldiers fighting in entrenched positions on numerous occasions. Some lessons could have been taken from that conflict, with some incompetent commanders being weeded out by commission boards during the war.

[Truth-a-naut]

Would you classify the Gatling gun as a machine gun or just a repeating rifle?

I believe it was the former.

[MB.]

Gattling gun is *not* a machine gun.

Gattling guns are considered artillery peices, not infantry support weapons.

[Rokossovsky]

The gatling gun may be considered as an artillery piece however it functioned just like a machine gun and led to the development of far more effective ones. Its like saying that the wright brothers 'flying machine' wasnt actually a plane.

This qoute is from www.civilwarhome.com/gatlinggun.htm but backs up my point:

The Gatling gun saw only limited use in the Civil War, (Ben Butler used two around Petersburg and eight on gunboats; Porter acquired one; and Hancock ordered twelve for his I (Veteran) Corps), however, the conflict did test this weapon, perhaps the first successful true machine gun used in warfare. Invented by Dr. Richard Jordan Gatling, the Civil War model served as the precursor of more successful models.

[Luke]

Haig said "the machine gun is an overrated weapon". He did not understand the technology, he was in some ways a man in the middle (clueless, incompetent) and mostly a butcher.

[BobMarlon]

never under estimate a good cavalry charge