[LehmanB]

I was once in your situation (with him). no. there is no 'logic' at the end of the tunnle.

[Douglas]

Well then LB there is but one choice. To make his failure apparent at every point possible.

[SouthBeirut]

No labelling them as massacres is pathetic whining especially when they are legitimate targets.

Did you read the whole list ? If not, my conversation with you ends here.

They are all hezbollah aren't they?

The Shias more than half of the country's population are in their smashing majority Hezbollah. Do you really think you can justify killing an unarmed Hezbollah member ? Hezbollah is not only an army.

No because they don't belong to a military, paramilitary or terrorist organization.

See that's what's keeping me and you far away. For most people, Israel is a terrorist state.

You claim the Lebanese people do, that is why they are legitimate target.

Damn, then you can bring it on. We will fuck Netanyahu's fake hair with our Katyushas.

You just don't get the basic rules of war do you?

Oh I'm sorry. Forgive me, General.

No they are Hezbollah members not civilians (you can't be both).

Haha. Oh hell yea we can. We play soldiers at day, and sleep with our families at night.

And apparently it just bombs Hezbollah members according to you.

No. It bombs civilians living in their houses with no guns.

Nope because they are civilians and not members of an armed organization.

But by Israeli Law they are soldiers once each year (you can't be both).

Are you somehow that fucked up that you can't tell the difference?

That was unnecessary.

Oh I know. But while I expect him to lie and have no morals I thought maybe just maybe he might have some logic.
I was once in your situation (with him). no. there is no 'logic' at the end of the tunnle.
Well then LB there is but one choice. To make his failure apparent at every point possible.

Oh hey ladies, care to get a room or use the PM ? We're not in the Netherlands you know.

[Douglas]

Did you read the whole list ? If not, my conversation with you ends here.

Yes and all the Lebanese deaths are legal because according to you they were all Hezbollah members.

Do you really think you can justify killing an unarmed Hezbollah member ? Hezbollah is not only an army.

No they certainly aren't an army. They are nothing but cowardly scum. Which still makes them a legal target.

See that's what's keeping me and you far away. For most people, Israel is a terrorist state.

Their army wears a uniform and doesn't fight it's war on the basis of deliberately attacking civilians.

Damn, then you can bring it on. We will fuck Netanyahu's fake hair with our Katyushas.

Yeah because those puny unguided rockets are such a threat and danger when compared to a nation that could turn Beirut into nothing but a glassy crater.

We play soldiers at day, and sleep with our families at night.

Then don't whine about the consequences (your list). If you are soldiers (you're not as previously noted) then you should be prepared to be treated and die as such.

No. It bombs civilians living in their houses with no guns.

No such thing as civilians in Lebanon, you "are all hezbollah". You're words, feel free to retract them at any time

Oh and why is killing civilians now a bad thing? It's your primary tactic.

But by Israeli Law they are soldiers once each year (you can't be both).

Soldiers when you have any army are those in uniform, in service, on duty and active.

Hezbollah not being an army doesn't get to have that definition, because it is not an army, it has no soldiers. It is just a collection of barbaric cunts, cowards and disgusting little cretins. When it starts wearing a uniform, adopts basic military structure and accepts the rules of war then it gets to be covered. Until that point it has a target on it's back saying nothing more than "terrorist scum, insert bullets here"

By claiming all people are Hezbollah you've painted everyone with that target. Personally that doesn't bother me. It just annoys me when you are hypocritical and whine about it.

[SouthBeirut]

You have proved to have a child mentality, and proved being ignorant with a very low level argumentation.

My conversation with you Sir is over. Please ignore me in future posts or topics on PoliticsForum.org and I will be doing the same from now on.

[Douglas]

Oh no you don't get to crawl away like that. You don't want to deal with an open public forum? Then leave it. Go back under whatever slime covered rock you call home and don't darken this place again. Otherwise you are going to have to deal with this. That's the joys of democracy and not being in some god-forsaken devil worshipping hell hole. Don't like it? Tough.

You see the problem with you lot, and by you lot I mean Hezbollah, an organization you profes support of, is that you are dumb, greedy and stupid. You can't be treated as civilians because well...... you're gun tooting, explosive throwing and murdering ways rule you out as being civilians so you don't get that protection. But without attempting to be an army and obeying the basic laws governing warfare you're not soldiers either and don't get those rights either.

Now your rhetoric of everyone being a member of Hezbollah would remove all that protection from everyone in your country. If every woman and child was a member then they too would be treated as terrorists, not soldiers and not civilians.

That is why I want a longer list. Or you could just retract your statement. You don't get to slink away.

[SouthBeirut]

[Ideational Ontarian]

Doug, stop being ridiculous. Even if you could make the case that anyone who supports Hezbollah is not a civilian, not everyone in Lebanon is a card carrying member. In fact, Hezbollah's public support only shoots up when Israel starts bombing the country. Everyone suffers one way or another.

[Douglas]

Even if you could make the case that anyone who supports Hezbollah is not a civilian, not everyone in Lebanon is a card carrying member.

Actually....... Samir claims they all are.

He needs to deal with the consequences of that.

[SouthBeirut]

Exception:

Actually....... Samir claims they all are.
He needs to deal with the consequences of that.

I didn't know my words meant so much to you ! I'm shocked.

[Godstud]

A terrorist organization(Hezbollah) listing off massacres is not just a bit hypocritical

In a 2003 interview, Nasrallah(Hizbollah leader and SamirKuntar's avatar) answered questions concerning the renewed peace talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis, stating that he would not interfere in what he regarded as "... primarily a Palestinian matter." However, in his speeches to his followers, he provides rationalizations for suicide bombings. Similarly, in 2004, when asked whether he was prepared to live with a two-state settlement between Israel and Palestine, Nasrallah said again that he would not sabotage what is finally a "... Palestinian matter." He also said that outside of Lebanon, Hezbollah would act only in a defensive manner towards Israeli forces, and that Hezbollah's missiles were acquired to deter attacks on Lebanon.

Double speak and hypocrisy isn't just limited to Samir Kuntar but all Hezbollah. He's just acting in the manner of his ideology which consists of lies and fabrications to support anything he wishes. Then he hides, as Hezbollah terrorist scum do, behind the 'civilian' label when it suits him and whines of massacres.

Hezbollah accused of war crimes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5343188.stm

charges that Hezbollah used Lebanese civilians as a cover for their operations.
About 1,000 Lebanese, mainly civilians, died in the fighting, while 161 Israelis, mainly soldiers, were killed.
Israel launched its offensive after Hezbollah militants seized two of its soldiers and killed several others during a cross-border raid on 12 July.

Massacres by Hezbollah! Buenos Aires ones only.
The first massacre took place on March 17, 1992 -- the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires. Twenty-nine people were killed. The message was that no Israeli establishment, anywhere in the world, was safe from attack.

The second took place on July 18, 1994, again in Buenos Aires -- the bombing of the main center of the Argentine Jewish community. Ninety-five people were killed. This time the message was different: the war is against all Jews, not just Israelis.



Douglas

[SouthBeirut]

A terrorist organization(Hezbollah) listing off massacres is not just a bit hypocritical

The site does not belong to Hezbollah, therefore your statement isn't worth shit.

Double speak and hypocrisy isn't just limited to Samir Kuntar but all Hezbollah.

Point the hypocrisy out for us, buddy.

He's just acting in the manner of his ideology which consists of lies and fabrications to support anything he wishes.

Our ideology consists in driving out the Israelis out of Lebanon, returning of all Lebanese prisoners out of Israeli prisons and the establishment of a competent Lebanese Army. In addition to that, we will continue supporting our brothers in Hamas financially, strategically and with weapons for them to achieve their goals and gain their deserved rights.

Point out the lies, buddy.

Then he hides,

I'll be in Beirut in a few weeks. When I'm there, you can come, and I'll meet you in Beirut International Airport. I hide from nobody.

behind the 'civilian' label when it suits him

It's not that hard to see the difference between a resistance fighter and a civilian in Lebanon. It's not like Iraq or Afghanistan. Hezbollah soldiers wear US Woodland Camouflage and usually carry AK47's and M16's if they are regular soldiers or an M4 Carbine if they are Special Forces. They can be found (difficult but not impossible) in South Lebanon in wartime when the South is evacuated. Bombing of Dahieh in Beirut, and other non-front villages are unnecessary as they hold only civilians and no Hezbollah fighters.

Hezbollah accused of war crimes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5343188.stm

These accusations are 100% correct. We did fire rockets on the civilian cities, but only after Israeli warplanes and artillery were targeting the Lebanese civilians on non-Front villages and towns. Eye for an eye.

Massacres by Hezbollah! Buenos Aires ones only.
The first massacre took place on March 17, 1992 -- the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires. Twenty-nine people were killed. The message was that no Israeli establishment, anywhere in the world, was safe from attack.

The second took place on July 18, 1994, again in Buenos Aires -- the bombing of the main centre of the Argentine Jewish community. Ninety-five people were killed. This time the message was different: the war is against all Jews, not just Israelis.

Hezbollah take credit for their acts. These attacks are more of an Al Qaeda fashion, and not Hezbollah. Hezbollah will always take responsibility if they are really responsible. We already bombed many Israeli centers in Lebanon and always took responsibility for the acts.

So as long as Hezbollah didn't claim responsibility and there are no evidence, whatsoever linking Hezbollah to those attacks, then it's pure BULLSHIT.

SamirKuntar rapidly withdraws behind a thin veil of haughty attitude, his falsehoods exposed for all to see.

Israel launched its offensive after Hezbollah militants seized two of its soldiers and killed several others during a cross-border raid on 12 July.

EXACTLY ! Raid on an Israeli Military Vehicle. Reminding Forum members that during the standby to execute the operation, many civilian cars passed with Israeli soldiers inside but Hezbollah didn't execute as to give the Israelis no reasons to say that Hezbollah attacked civilian targets.

Also, why did they launch an offensive ? We did the same thing in 2000 and everything went fine. Soldiers were traded in 2004 in peace, and no civilians got hurt in the process.

But No, you had to act like idiot fucks in 2006 and launch an offensive to get back 2 soldiers that killed 160 of your soldiers and and at the end the results were the same as in 2004. Trading.

[Douglas]

Point the hypocrisy out for us, buddy.

You whine about "massacres" but then call for the killing of Israeli civillians.
You claim that "we are all Hezbollah" but then whine about "massacres"

but Hezbollah didn't execute as to give the Israelis no reasons to say that Hezbollah attacked civilian targets.

Yeah because killing civilians is something Hezbollah refuses to do.......

Also, why did they launch an offensive ? We did the same thing in 2000 and everything went fine. Soldiers were traded in 2004 in peace, and no civilians got hurt in the process.

Because you poked the bear one too many times.

[Godstud]

Point the hypocrisy out for us, buddy.

In a 2003 interview, Nasrallah(Hizbollah leader and SamirKuntar's avatar) answered questions concerning the renewed peace talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis, stating that he would not interfere in what he regarded as "... primarily a Palestinian matter." However, in his speeches to his followers, he provides rationalizations for suicide bombings.
I highlighted the lies for you.

Our ideology consists in driving out the Israelis out of Lebanon, returning of all Lebanese prisoners out of Israeli prisons and the establishment of a competent Lebanese Army. In addition to that, we will continue supporting our brothers in Hamas financially, strategically and with weapons for them to achieve their goals and gain their deserved rights.

Samir Kuntar is a murdering cur who would be in prison in any country for his abominable crimes.
Israelies are not IN Lebanon. Lebanese in prisons are there because they are terrorists or criminals,
Hamas is a world-recognized terrorist organization.

The site does not belong to Hezbollah, therefore your statement isn't worth shit.

So only a site supporting your ideology is worth a shit? You realize how stupid that statement sounds?

I did retract my comment at the end there but you were making it look like you were not going to continue in the discussion and skulk away.

Hezbollah do not wear any kind of uniform and change into civilian garb when it suits them. They are up for war crimes for using human shields. These are not soldiers. They transport weapons in civilian vehicles.

These accusations are 100% correct. We did fire rockets on the civilian cities, but only after Israeli warplanes and artillery were targeting the Lebanese civilians on non-Front villages and towns. Eye for an eye.

AFTER Hezbollah incursions into Israel. The Israelis were in fact doing the the 'eye for an eye' thing.

So as long as Hezbollah didn't claim responsibility and there are no evidence, whatsoever linking Hezbollah to those attacks, then it's pure BULLSHIT.

So if Israel had attacked Lebanon and denied it, it would not have happened?

[SouthBeirut]

In a 2003 interview, Nasrallah(Hizbollah leader and SamirKuntar's avatar) answered questions concerning the renewed peace talks between the Palestinians and the Israelis, stating that he would not interfere in what he regarded as "... primarily a Palestinian matter." However, in his speeches to his followers, he provides rationalizations for suicide bombings.
I highlighted the lies for you.

Expressing a personal opinion is never considered as a political interfering in a Palestinian matter. Justifications for the use of suicide bombings are many.

Samir Kuntar is a murdering cur who would be in prison in any country for his abominable crimes.

Samir Kuntar was not a Hezbollah member in 1979. Actually, there was no Hezbollah in 1979. As our conversation is about Hezbollah, I don't know why you pointed out Samir Kuntar. Trying to get something new to attack me with ?

Israelies are not IN Lebanon.

Sheba'a Farms is Lebanese territory.

Lebanese in prisons are there because they are terrorists or criminals,

Only in Israeli law. They are not criminals for Lebanon. We want all our citizens that were imprisoned during the war back. Actually we already have them. There are only dead bodies left to get back.

Hamas is a world-recognized terrorist organization.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Learn that, remember that and keep it in your mind.

So only a site supporting your ideology is worth a shit?

No. YOUR statement about the site being a Hezbollah one is worth shit. Fuck, do I have to teach a Canadian how to understand English now ?

You realize how stupid that statement sounds?

You realize how you're embarrassing yourself in a public forum ?

I did retract my comment at the end there but you were making it look like you were not going to continue in the discussion and skulk away.

I said I wouldn't reply Douglas anymore, as he showed me a child mentality.

Hezbollah do not wear any kind of uniform and change into civilian garb when it suits them.

Hehe.. And you're saying that to me ? A Southern Lebanese civilian ? Hehe.. Someone who lived the war, unlike you ?

They are up for war crimes for using human shields.

Yea, hehe.. Civilians killed by Israel in towns where no rockets were fired or any military activity are considered human shields. Hehe..

They transport weapons in civilian vehicles.

Weapons transportation ceases in wartime. Stocks are always full and are to be used in wartime. Transportation of arms was impossible during the war as the IAF was targeting every single vehicle that was moving in South Lebanon. It also was unnecessary as the stocks were and are always full.

Transportation of weapons and ammunition occur in peacetime in civilian trucks.

AFTER Hezbollah incursions into Israel.

Military incursions.

The Israelis were in fact doing the the 'eye for an eye' thing.

The eye for an eye would be them capturing 2 Hezbollah soldiers.

So if Israel had attacked Lebanon and denied it, it would not have happened?

As long as there are no proofs, yes. But as always, the only military planes that go over Lebanon are Israeli ones, so an air launched bomb could easily be proven to be Israeli, and ground incursions also, as the only enemy surrounding Lebanon is Israel. It's not like settlers will cut off the wires and cross the border. They are get horrified when they hear "Hezbollah".

[Godstud]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5343188.stm
To which you responded:

The site does not belong to Hezbollah, therefore your statement isn't worth shit.

Why does this have to be a Hezbollah site? My grasp of the English language is excellent. My understanding your misdirection and jibberish, is not.

Samir Kuntar was part of a 2008 Israel-Hezbollah swap so he is most definitely connected to Hezbollah.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Learn that, remember that and keep it in your mind.

Here is the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist:

A "freedom fighter" battles soldiers and other official representatives of enemy forces.

A "terrorist" deliberately targets and tries to kill innocent men, women and children.

As soon as you blow up a bus of civilians and justify it as part of your warfare tactics, you become a terrorist. If the Hezbollah blew up a bus, apologized and made sure it never happened again and attacked strictly military targets, they would be "freedom fighters". They haven't and aren't.
Your statement is nonsensical.

How am I embarrassing myself in a forum by proving you are biased and not capable of a logical debate? You said the website I provided linking Hezbollah Warcrimes charged by Amnesty international wasn't "worth a shit" because it didn't belong to Hezbollah.

You said:

You have proved to have a child mentality, and proved being ignorant with a very low level argumentation.
My conversation with you Sir is over. Please ignore me in future posts or topics on PoliticsForum.org and I will be doing the same from now on.

You wouldn't reply any more because Douglas was contradicting your arguments and picking apart your arguments in a logical and systematic fashion and not because of his mentality, but because of yours.

Yea, hehe.. Civilians killed by Israel in towns where no rockets were fired or any military activity are considered human shields. Hehe..

Amnesty says it will publish further reports about other aspects of the war, including attacks by Israeli forces that resulted in heavy civilian casualties and charges that Hezbollah used Lebanese civilians as a cover for their operations.
Amnesty International is investigating this, and Israel's part in it. RTFA http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5343188.stm

Transportation of weapons and ammunition occur in peacetime in civilian trucks.

No, they aren't.

The eye for an eye would be them capturing 2 Hezbollah soldiers.

Were this the ONLY incident that might have been an option, but it wasn't.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr ... ntrassID=0
Here's proof that Hezbollah was involved in the Buenos Aires bombings.

[SouthBeirut]

Why does this have to be a Hezbollah site? My grasp of the English language is excellent. My understanding your misdirection and jibberish, is not.

I guess we had a misunderstanding. Which site were you pointing at. My massacre list one or the BBC one ?

Samir Kuntar was part of a 2008 Israel-Hezbollah swap so he is most definitely connected to Hezbollah.

No. Samir Kuntar is connected to the promise of Hezbollah of returning every Lebanese civilian in Israeli prisons back to Lebanon.

A "freedom fighter" battles soldiers and other official representatives of enemy forces.

And this was done perfectly in the 1990's and in 2006.

A "terrorist" deliberately targets and tries to kill innocent men, women and children.

Nice. Then Israel can be fairly called a terrorist state.

As soon as you blow up a bus of civilians and justify it as part of your warfare tactics, you become a terrorist.

Hezbollah never blew up a bus. And it can be a part of a warfare tactic if Israel bombs a house killing 20 people inside. I see no problem in that.

If the Hezbollah blew up a bus, apologized and made sure it never happened again and attacked strictly military targets, they would be "freedom fighters". They haven't and aren't.

Again, Hezbollah never blew up a bus. Hezbollah attacked military targets in 2006. Israel responded, but didn't stop, and continued. They asked for the war. We kidnapped and sat down waiting for their usual 1 day response and then negotiations. This didn't happen, so happened what you saw.

How am I embarrassing myself in a forum by proving you are biased and not capable of a logical debate?

Actually I'm talking very logically. Where am I being non logical in any statement ?

You said the website I provided linking Hezbollah Warcrimes charged by Amnesty international wasn't "worth a shit" because it didn't belong to Hezbollah. :?:

Oh. I thought you were talking about MY massacre list websites. This is all a misunderstanding. Sorry.

You wouldn't reply any more because Douglas was contradicting your arguments and picking apart your arguments in a logical and systematic fashion and not because of his mentality, but because of yours.

Actually Douglas insisted on saying that civilians must be killed as they support Hezbollah, only because I said that "We are all Hezbollah". And he's been using this only argument in each topic I post. This is childish.

No, they aren't.

Oh, I'm sorry. You're the Lebanese living in Lebanon and watching everything.

Were this the ONLY incident that might have been an option, but it wasn't

It was the only incident. The war only went on because Israel wanted to. Even the Israelis in the community know this.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr ... ntrassID=0
Here's proof that Hezbollah was involved in the Buenos Aires bombings.

That's not proof. Looks more like a made up story. Why would Iran need Hezbollah members to do the job ?

[Godstud]

OK. NP misunderstandings happen. I was wondering wth was going on there but it was simply mis-communication. That's partly why I was thinking you weren't being logical.

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/November_ ... 11063.html
This is a very good article showing breaches of 'Rules of War' by both Israel AND Hezbollah. Both sides really have blood on their hands and so trying to show Israel as the bad guy here doesn't cut it.

It doesn't show all the crimes in that situation but it shows some prime ones.

If you identified all people in Lebanon as Hezbollah, it does make any attacks on Lebanese civilians justified, especially if there ARE no civilians(they are all Hezbollah). Douglas made a good point on this and just repeated it, when you tried to recant your statement.

That's not proof. Looks more like a made up story. Why would Iran need Hezbollah members to do the job ?

It looks as made up as your stories on israel massacres... I picked an Israeli news service for the information to play the other side, although my earlier post was from Argentinian news.
Hezbollah did it to kill Israelis and Jews. That's what terrorism is. Terrorism is killing innocent people to cause fear in order to pressure governments, etc. into changing. It is very rarely effective and yet has become a favourite amongst extremists. Logic plays no part in terrorism.

[War Angel]

Weapons transportation ceases in wartime. Stocks are always full and are to be used in wartime.

Incorrect.

Hezbollah attacked military targets in 2006.

And civilian targets as well.

Actually Douglas insisted on saying that civilians must be killed as they support Hezbollah, only because I said that "We are all Hezbollah". And he's been using this only argument in each topic I post. This is childish.

It's very reasonable. If you are all Hizballah, a terrorist\militant organisation, then you are all viable, legitimate targets. It'd be like me saying we are all IDF.

That's not proof. Looks more like a made up story. Why would Iran need Hezbollah members to do the job ?

Iran uses Hizballah as proxy, since it cannot and does not want to risk open conflict. Iran is a major player with a lot of interests, some of them collide, so they eat the cake and keep it whole. Hizballah is their nasty little pitbull. It keeps Israel occupied, where-as in open war, Israel would utterly decimate Iran. Iran wishes to gain leverage (nuclear weapons, mostly) before it even considers such open conflict.

[Douglas]

Actually Douglas insisted on saying that civilians must be killed as they support Hezbollah, only because I said that "We are all Hezbollah". And he's been using this only argument in each topic I post. This is childish.

Then feel free to retract it.

While you are at it you can also retract your support for the deliberate targeting and murder of civilians.

And this was done perfectly in the 1990's and in 2006.

Perfectly? Launching rockets at civilians is far from perfect. In fact it's terrorism.

Nice. Then Israel can be fairly called a terrorist state.

Not unless you can put forward an argument that they deliberately target civilians. Killing civilians in warfare is not an issue. Setting out to target them by launching rockets at them is however...... bad.

You still don't get the rules of war? Ah well I guess filthy terrorists don't. And you are all Hezbollah.