Fidel Castro Hired Nazi SS to Train Military - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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'Cold war' communist versus capitalist ideological struggle (1946 - 1990) and everything else in the post World War II era (1946 onwards).
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#14105195
Well that's because for reasons known only to themselves, the 4th International says that when it's a country that is not the USSR it is called "deformed", rather than "degenerated". But it's basically the same thing because the definition of the "degenerated worker's state", describes it as a state which is "deformed" in the exact same way.

But even if Social_Critic wants to quibble with me over whether it is a 'deformed' or a 'degenerated' worker's state, he'd still be conceding that it was wrong and ridiculous to deploy the word 'fascist' to describe the phenomenon.
#14107713
Red fascism is essentially a meaningless propaganda term to begin with, primarily employed by liberals who use the term "fascism" as an epithet and lack the political understanding to grasp the vast differences and minor nuances present within both the far-right and the far-left.

The notion that Castro was or is a fascist in any sense of the term is complete rubbish.
#14110187
The Army's CIC screened all applicants who wished to come to the United States under the 1948 Displaced Persons Act and later the 1953 Refugee Relief Act. U.S. authorities rejected thousands of visa applicants for suspected wartime activities. Between 1945 and 1955, 765 scientists, engineers, and technicians were brought to the United States under Paperclip and other similar programs. In contrast, 6,000 were taken to Russia. Eventually many German scientists became American citizen. For most this was a dream come true.

Many allegations of Nazi war criminals living in the US were made. According to a 1978 General Accounting Office report “Widespread Conspiracy To Obstruct Probes of Alleged Nazi War Criminals Not Supported By Available Evidence”. Allegations were made on 1982 that Federal agencies made a conscious effort to bring Nazi war criminals into this country and protect them once they were admitted. On May 1982, the House Committee on the Judiciary, requested the General Accounting Office to reopen its 1978 investigation to determine whether there were any U.S. Government programs to help Nazi war criminals and Axis collaborators immigrate to the United States and to conceal their backgrounds. The GAO informed Congress in June 1985 that it had found no evidence of any U.S. agency program to aid Nazis or Axis collaborators to immigrate to the United States.
#14110623
Sandokan, is your point supposed to be that if the USSR/Communist Cuba had made the effort to have sham/dubious processes to 'screen' their recruits it would have been all okay? I have given plenty of examples of people recruited from Germany after the war that were likely involved in the use of slave labour and/or human experimentation to some degree. In one case the guy got deported. Forgive me if I seem a bit underwhelmed by the measures that were supposed to be in place.

And I reiterate for a third time now - there was a very clear example of the US recruiting a Japanese war criminal who all your ramblings about Nazis do no apply. I know Nazi is a convenient buzz word, but so is human experimentation.

Going all the way back to the first page - this wasn't even just something the US did after the war. Other South and Central American regimes did the same thing.

This kind of thing was not some unique feature of Castro's Cuba. It wasn't unusual regionally, it wasn't even that unusual from a superpower that we instinctively expect better of. Not saying it wasn't bad, I'm saying singling out Cuba - and doing so even after the other examples were brought up - is a bit silly.
#14116747
Rei, political systems are strategies used by would be leaders and/or elites to gain and/ or hold on to power. Mere observation shows that as communist rulers and the red elites realize that communism is a dead end, they switch strategy . They move towards fascism. Thus the dynamic system is orchestrated to move them in the direction of personality worship and the fascism which the party elite chooses as the survival option for themselves and their descendants.

Read and observe what happens in china as it moves more and more towards fascism. Cuba is also trying to move that way. With castro's brain out of business his brother Raul thinks the best option is fascism. These red elites do not even remotely believe in Marxism they want to have a capitalist system with centralized control, no real democracy, and of course a heavy dose of populist propaganda , thought control, repression as needed and a muscular military posture. It's Mussolini all over again.
#14116784
S.S. General Hans Kammler, an engineer that supervised the construction of concentration camps, was responsible for using slave labor into the rocket program. He was instrumental in the arrest of von Braun which has been working in the design of the V-2 rocket. Claren G. Lasby in his 1971 book “Paper Clip”, wrote: “In March 1944 the Gestapo learned that von Braun had expressed in public a defeatist attitude about Germany's chances in the war, and a desire to design a spaceship rather than a weapon. Voracious in their demand for control of the V-2 program, the S.S. leaders used this information, together with a trumped-up charge that von Braun had Communist leanings, to imprison him for two weeks.” The intervention of Major-General Dr Walter Robert Dornberger, leader of the V-2 rocker program and other projects at Peenemünde, was instrumental in obtaining von Braun's release, since without him the final design of the V-2 rocket will be in jeopardy. This allowed Kammler to take control of the secret weapon program.
#14122967
Dr. Wernher von Braun, a German aeronautical engineer and rocket scientist, after he and his team were granted security clearance to work in the US, build the first long-range ballistic missiles, and the Jupiter rocket that launched the first American satellite into orbit. In 1960 von Braun became director of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and chief architect of the development of the Saturn V rocket that send US astronauts to the moon, fulfilling his life-long dream and establish America as a leader in space for decades to come.

Image
Members of the von Braun team reveal their Explorer Satellite in 1957. Standing left to right; Dr. William Mrazek, Dr. Walter Haeussermann and Dr. Ernst Stuhlinger. Seated; Dr. Eberhard Rees, General Medaris and Dr.Wernher von Braun.
#14128495
What Fidel Castro’s Nazi recruits says about the Left
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ays-about/

By Jon B. Perdue
October 16, 2012

Though he appears to have taken a break from his writing, Fidel Castro utilized one of his last “Reflections” columns to commemorate “The 67th Anniversary of the Victory over Nazi Fascism.” In it, he offered congratulations to the Russian people, saying that, because the Soviets under Stalin had fought so hard to preserve Communism, they were able to “crush the invaders who wished to impose a thousand years of Nazism and holocaust on all humanity.”

The aging dictator has shown confusion in the past when applying the Nazi and holocaust labels. Two years earlier, he outraged many of the typically sympathetic members of the UN Human Rights Council meeting when he declared that the “Fuhrer’s swastika is today Israel’s banner,” adding: “The hatred felt by the state of Israel against the Palestinians is such that they would not hesitate to send the one and a half million men, women and children of that country to the crematoria where millions of Jews of all ages were exterminated by the Nazis.”

Castro’s calumny is standard fare in the professionally practiced anti-semitism of today’s far-left propaganda, which tries to portray its ideological roots as antithetical and in opposition to Nazism and fascism, which it portrays as occupying the right side of the political spectrum. This has always been a false dichotomy, rooted more in historical schisms that occurred before World War II and the ideological turf-wrangling that took place after.

A story published last week in Germany’s Die Welt puts to rest this false dichotomy, proving that it is extremism itself, rather than the edifying tenets of particular extremist ideologies, that drives radical leaders to murder and oppress their own people, even as they proclaim it a necessary evil to reach the promised paradise of their particular ideology.

According to Die Welt, newly uncovered documents from the German intelligence agencyBND show that Fidel Castro actively recruited former Nazi paramilitary officers to train his revolutionary army in 1962, and offered salaries four times higher than these former Nazis would have received in Germany to come to Havana to impart their know-how.

According to the declassified documents, the BND believed that Castro’s entreaties “Clearly showed that Cuban Revolutionary Army personnel had little fear of contact with our Nazi past when it served their own cause.” The report further states that four former Nazis had accepted the offer, and confirmed that two of the Nazi trainers actually made it to the island to begin work.

Castro apparently didn’t stop at purchasing the services of Nazi paramilitary trainers. According to the documents, Castro sought out the services of two renowned Nazi operatives, Otto Ernst Remer and Ernst-Wilhelm Springer, to help the Cuban government purchase 4000 Belgian machine guns.

Revelations such as these about the inter-relations between what are normally touted as the far-left and far-right are bound to continue. In May 2007, a group of German scientists and engineers unveiled the “E-Puzzler,” the “world’s most sophisticated pattern recognition system,” which could process at record speed the torn and shredded Stasi files that had been partially destroyed by the East German agents as the Berlin Wall was falling in 1989. E-Puzzler has since reconstructed millions of once-secret files, revealing much of the collaboration between disparate extremist groups who sought logistical assistance for their own operations, regardless of the ideology of their co-partners.

Out of this torrent of reconstructed dossiers and documents has also come the revelation that arch-anticapitalist Fidel Castro had filled his pockets and those of his cronies with dollars generated by using the gulag labor of political prisoners. As the Miami Herald reported in May, a cooperation agreement was established in 1987 between IKEA and Fidel Castro to utilize Cuban prison labor to build furniture for the company.

After the initial report, a Cuban defector presented evidence that he had been part of a film crew for the Castro regime that was tasked with going inside the prisons to shoot a promo for Cuba’s gulag capitalism and what it could offer foreign companies looking for cheap labor that wouldn’t complain about the long hours.

Though it has always been known to all but the foolish that the Castro dictatorship was a living perfidy, the internet age has provided more of these real time revelations than normal. Historically, most of the secrets of despots are interred with their bones. But after half a century in power, one runs up a large list of sins to hide. It remains to be seen whether further revelations that Fidel practices “communism for thee, capitalism for me,” or that he has been just as welcoming to Nazis as he has been to communists, will change the minds of those who may remain ambivalent.

Jon B. Perdue, director of Latin America programs at the Fund for American Studies, is author of “The War of All the People: The Nexus of Latin American Radicalism and Middle Eastern Terrorism” (Potomac Books, 2012).
Very well reasoned essay. Hopefully this will finally open the eyes of those who do not want to see the true nature of this dictatorship and what it is capable of doing.

U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Democrat, said this about Fidel Castro statement at the United Nations on June 14, 2010: “These aren't just the comments of some doddering anti-Semite who is losing his faculties. These malicious comments were officially distributed by Cuba's government. They should be seen as what they are -- an official position of the Cuban government and endorsement of hateful anti-Semitism.''

The Castro brothers are the guys who lashed out against the State of Israel, amoral and compulsory liars, Machiavelli’s characters. Of course they are full-fledged anti-Semite. Of the 15,000 Jews living in the island in 1959, only 1,200 remain. 92% left after the regime took away their business and properties, and banned all religions.
#14128591
Castro apparently didn’t stop at purchasing the services of Nazi paramilitary trainers. According to the documents, Castro sought out the services of two renowned Nazi operatives, Otto Ernst Remer and Ernst-Wilhelm Springer, to help the Cuban government purchase 4000 Belgian machine guns.

As the Miami Herald reported in May, a cooperation agreement was established in 1987 between IKEA and Fidel Castro to utilize Cuban prison labor to build furniture for the company.

Clearly these separate two incidents prove that Cuban-style Communist government is synonymous with a fondness for waffles and Swedish furniture (or perhaps Fidel got kick backs in the form of cafeteria meatballs). Those devils... or all it reinforces is that not all political decisions have an ideological dimension to them.
#14128671
Wait a second rei, give me a definition of fascism using a set of say 5 characteristics. I will then write my comments comparing Cuba and Venezuela to these attributes.

By the way, I just heard a couple of speeches from Venezuela where the chavista machine said their rule would last for centuries, that Chavez was the father of Venezuela, and the military leadership in clear violation of the constitution pledged to defend Chavez's "revolution".

In other speeches I heard Maduro say those who opposed chavismo were unpatriotic and traitors, and that anybody who didn't have tears and prayers for Chavez was a hateful country less traitor. Venezuela right now sounds a bit like a mix of North Korea and nazi germany.
#14128672
Social_Critic wrote:Wait a second rei, give me a definition of fascism using a set of say 5 characteristics.

I can't do that, because that cannot be done with any ideology. But I can do this:

Quoting myself, source: http://politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopi ... #p14118233

Spoiler: show
Basically getting things done is a process, and the process requires that certain social conditions be met. No one is ever just handed the sceptre of power and asked to just implement a blueprint.

There had to be a methodology or social action programme for actually creating a situation where people will be inclined to do what we want them to do.

We often hear people of all stripes saying things like, "Oh I support the death penalty", "I oppose the death penalty", "I support licorice allsorts being handed out for free to kids in preschool", "I oppose the bill called CMD6758", "I support national self-determination", "I support your mother". No, no one can be said to actually support anything if no one can see how anyone plans to get there.

So what I do is start with a very simple list. KISS can be a kiss, but it also means 'keep it simple surely':

  • 1. A clear narrative about the current crisis based on some socio-economic class analysis.

  • 2. Fundamental principles on which actions are based.

  • 3. A path for community organisation which leads to a framework in which a programme may develop to address the contradictions at the root of the crisis.

The three 'answers' to those three 'questions' form the bedrock of anything else I say. So I'll immediately show those.

1. First the summary of the narrative:
    Rei Murasame, Sat 14 Jan 2012, 0433BST wrote:I would say that the upper-middle class has been locketing away an astonishingly high proportion of the growing wealth. They are even now using the liberal-capitalist state which they created, as an implement to further facilitate that.

    The working class have been facing an offensive from the upper-middle class, which has really been intensifying over the last few years. It is an offensive against public services, incomes, living standards and unions in order to short-sightedly boost the returns for multinational companies led by international finance. Not contented with the banks receiving the biggest bailout in the history of capitalism - a bailout that they themselves engineered - international finance apparently wants to continue to make the national community skirt closer to destruction to serve the narrow interests of financial institutions.

    We in the middle-middle class have been asked to co-operate with this disastrous development, but we should not co-operate with it, since it poses an existential threat to the national community. It's about time to seriously get a desire to take our countries back. If the present system is incapable of adequately allocating wealth to fulfil our policy preferences and foster social harmony - and now there is no doubt that it is incapable - then it ought to be sublated or abolished.


2. Then a summary of the principles, the aim being to foster full employment, growth, social inclusion, sustainability, health, and defence of a specific ancestral breeding group and its dominance of a civic space:
    Rei Murasame, Sun 20 Nov 2011, 0745BST wrote:We can seize the chance to build a new social order, in a new historic bloc. We can find meaning and reward in serving some cause higher than ourselves, a glimmering purpose, the warm glow of a thousand points of light, illuminating every child in the nation. Aren't we all gazing up at the same stars, are our feet not planted firmly on the same Land?

    We have to remember what that higher purpose is, the defence and maintenance of our population group. The nation is a project under renovation and construction, it should accept new parts and incorporate them appropriately, nurturing and developing them in accordance with our climate and what the new environment requires, while at the same time also continuing to conserve what has been passed down to us, if it is good, vetted and purified from among our people since the most ancient times.

    We have to act in the interests of those who came before us, those who are presently alive, and those who will come after us. This is so that we can safeguard our existence as a distinct people indefinitely/forever, and along the way possibly discover the Reason/Truth that lies behind our existence and explore the unexplained laws of nature and the special powers latent in humans*.

    * Hey, isn't that the line at the bottom of my signature? That's on purpose!

3. Then thirdly a summary of the path, which is what I want to especially highlight in this post, since the bolded portion here is basically the answer to your question in full context:
    Rei Murasame, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 1007BST (emphasis added) wrote:Primary phenomenon will always take revenge against any attempt to narrowly alter their derivative phenomenon.

    Mass migration is a derivative phenomenon, meaning that the ethnic contradictions are secondary to the primary contradiction which is the contradiction between:

    • The middle class whose interest is to be nationally hegemonic by arranging a unity of purpose between territorially-coincident capital and labour so that it can carry out its social goals,

      VS


    • Finance capital, whose interest is to most rapidly engage in wealth-accumulation and knock down any inconvenient barriers to that accumulation.

    What this means for us is that in order to credibly address any of the social goals, such as halting the mass immigration process, we must criticise liberal-capitalism and highlight the actual centrality of capitalist logic in the re-production of a scenario where this mass immigration (and whatever else we don't like) is occurring. That must happen openly and it must accompany a complete divorce from any centre-right organisations - that line must be drawn firmly in the sand.

    Another pitfall that we must avoid is the misuse of the word 'greed'. Greed is not the problem. It is not greed which perpetuates capitalism, it is capitalism which perpetuates capitalism; it is capitalism which penetrates and shapes society in such a way that the use of capitalist logic becomes the path of least resistance [to surviving] in that society.

    What is needed is for nationalists to kick against that logic and call for an ethnic solidarity in which we become comfortable with co-operating with and working alongside people of differing social statuses in our business-lives, so that capitalism can [be strongly attacked] and the experience of real community would be a practice and not just a word.

    This solidarited 'real community' effect must be actualised through 'the path of national-labour', a struggle in which the middle class would reach out to the working class and establish a rival base of economic power using a labour movement to facilitate the dispersal of economic power into national guilds and co-determinate corporations, and co-operatives. That is the only way to challenge finance. That material condition must be satisfied in order to attain the power to act; that is the only way that a Far Right party would ever be able to reach power while maintaining its integrity.

    And it is only then, that the potential would exist for the state to be actually commandeered by our new political class, a new political class which is interested in social justice and spiritual advancement of the indigenous people of Europe; that commitment being bolstered and encouraged by the aforementioned solid material incentives, in a civil society in which our community-oriented ideology would have already displaced liberalism and would be triumphant and total.

    The desires of our new political class could then be fashioned into a coherent corporatist institutional arrangement which - through consensus-building - would develop those desires into a workable methodology and therefore totalitarian action.

The reason that it has to be done this way is because simply promulgating a blueprint will not actually cause anyone to obey it, nor will it get you into power. So it must be built, that rival base of power must be built.

Now, why corporatism? Well let's take two views:
'National Guilds and the State', S. G. Hobson, 1920 (emphasis added) wrote:[...] economic power precedes and dominates political action [...] It is permanently true in that statesmanship must possess the material means to encompass its ends, precisely as one must have the fare and sustenance before proceeding on a journey. [...] Economic power is not finally found in wealth but in the control of its abundance or scarcity.

If I possessed the control of the water supply, my economic power would be stupendous; but with equal access to water by the whole body of citizens, that economic power is dispersed and the community may erect swimming-baths or fountains or artificial lakes without my permission. Not only so; but the abundance of water, which economically considered is of boundless value, grows less serious as a practical issue the more abundant it becomes.

The dominance of economic power depends, therefore, upon two main considerations artificially, by the private control of wealth; fundamentally, by a natural scarcity.


And:
Ludwig von Mises wrote:There is no doubt that any attempt to realize the corporativist utopia would in a very short time lead to violent conflicts, if the government did not interfere when the vital industries abused their privileged position. What the doctrinaires envisage only as an exceptional measure—the interference of the government—will become the rule. Guild socialism and corporativism will turn into full government control of all production activities. They will develop into that system of Prussian Zwangswirtschaft [compulsory economy - permanent state of exception and other scary things] which they were designed to avoid.

The Hobson quote is what we do and the Mises quote is the criticism of it, the Mises quote to which I respond by saying that it is something that we acknowledge is real, since the power to strangle resources is what gives fascist guilds their power, and is what allows them to take the government away from liberals in the first place. Yes.

But this is a feature, not a flaw, the potential for conflict is part of the balance of powers, so we also are open to the possibility that fascist guilds might need to actually turn and shut down the very same fascist government they helped inaugurate by using that power, and we are also open to the possibility that a fascist government may need to mediate to prevent a breakdown caused by inter-guild squabbling.

So in other words, there is a deliberate kill-switch built into this which can be triggered not by by some wishful thinking or law on a piece of paper, but by actual class motives coupled with a concrete ability to control resources. Guilds are after all comprised of people who have particular interests which are not the same as the state bureaucracy or the employers groups.

At any rate, once you finally have the country, then you can get into what institutional corporatism roughly looks like. I'll borrow (and adjust!) some cute theory from the South Koreans illustrate it, since they have really simplified their explanation of it, to the point where I will not have to bring out a 100 page PDF on labour-industry relations:

    Image


    Super short summary:

    Submission of Agenda
    • All members of committees may propose and submit an agenda.

    Deliberation of Agenda
    • Committees by agenda and industry deliberate agenda.
    • The Standing Committee deliberates and reviews agenda.

    Decision of Agenda
    • The Plenary Committee decides agenda after review and co-ordination of the Standing Committee.
    • The decision shall require consent of two-thirds or more members who are present.
    • The consent has condition that the presence of half or more representatives of labour, management and the government.

    Notification of Discussion Result
    • In the event that the resolution is not possible due to the absence of either all labour or management members, the Plenary Committee can start the deliberation with the attendance of the majority of the registered members and decide to notify the government of the discussion results up to the time, with the approval of the majority of the attending members.

    Okay.

    Why are we doing this? Because:

    • A. A mature guild movement coupled with transparent and rational management mediated by an ascendant State can cooperate for:
      • quality improvement and
      • raising productivity in an industrial economy.

    • B. Full employment policies create:
      • employment opportunities and
      • foster social integration.

    • C. Welfare of the employees is promoted, which:
      • protects their health and safety,
      • addresses the problem of plateauing wages by allowing wage-negotiation and
      • enhances national competitiveness.

    If this sounds like I've just gone and described "the chamber of fasces and corporations" from the fascist theory, it's because it is, of course. But notice that this only comes into existence at the end. Most of the economic structure's ground-work is actually laid during the revolutionary process.

RECAP:

So to recap what I just did, basically I showed how guild socialism is procedural, a path, and not just something to be implemented after we get in. As a path, it means it is something that must be done on the way to power and as a precondition for attaining power.

That's why "the path of national-labour" is distinctly different from something like just "the principles of national-labour".

So what I've done:
  • 1. A clear narrative about the current crisis based on some class analysis. CHECK.

  • 2. Fundamental principles on which actions are based. CHECK.

  • 3. A path which leads to a framework in which a programme may develop (notice that we don't presume to know every detail of what that programme will be in all scenarios!) to address the contradictions at the root of the crisis. CHECK.

Even if people disagree with how I've checked all three of those, at least I have checked them. If you want to find out if a revolutionary group is using joined-up thinking, take their economic programme and subject it to that checklist. If any of those come back as "NOT PRESENT" instead of "CHECK", then you know that their train has either gone off the rails or never been in contact with the rails of material reality.

That's the situation, and so there.

[Soundtrack: Spring Lane ~ Colourful Path]

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