What if Stalin lives to 80? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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'Cold war' communist versus capitalist ideological struggle (1946 - 1990) and everything else in the post World War II era (1946 onwards).
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By R_G
#14178946
Alright, so one can believe Stalin died at his time but in all logic I think his death was aided or sped up if not outright planned.


Say he lives to 80, just because I like round numbers, so he goes into 1959.

All the stories indicate another purge but there are other question to consider. The Korean War was largely ended due to Stalin's death in 53 so let's cover that issue here as well.
#14178948
RG wrote:The Korean War was largely ended due to Stalin's death in 53


What? Negotiations for Armistice were going on before his death, the scenario changed dramatically with change in US leadership (i.e. Eisenhower and when he visited korea) not with change in USSR leadership.

All the stories indicate another purge but there are other question to consider.


Yes a badly needed purge which would had made the Soviet State much stronger.
#14178992
The Soviet Union would still be here today and would comprise the entire earth and permanent moon colony.

He would have purged the treasonous scum who ended up planting the seeds of doubt in Soviet Society and led humanity onto a golden age that none of us can even come close to imagining.
#14179063
I don't remember any one from soviet side threatening or considering Nukes as an option in korean war but I do remember one from American side but wait oh no, they are commies and Stalin.
#14180297
Living to 80 doesn't really give Stalin all that much more time so I can't imagine any big changes. The other thing is that as Stalin gets older, he's probably actually going to devolve more power simply because he can't oversee the whole show by himself any more. Stalin's long hours and even his tendency to throw big boozy dinners are going to be harder has he gets older, and even the dinners were an important 'feature' of his rule. Devolution of power was pretty much what the late-Stalin period was like anyway (resulting in some sharp power struggles in the late 1940s for example) and as he gets older I can only see the trend accelerating.

If as some posters have suggested there were another purge, it probably wouldn't have been run by Stalin but by someone else - possible a product of the infighting with Beria and the other security chiefs. Such a purge would be unlikely to be particularly neat and tidy, and would tend to benefit the people calling the shots, rather than the Soviet Union as a whole. For example Khrushchev might have gotten arrested, and you might initially think thats a good thing... but if you consider Beria and Malenkov could have been at the controls for longer post-Stalin as a result, it doesn't seem as positive from a Soviet perspective.
#14652804
^The statements of a counterrevolutionary enemy of all workers.

Image
#14652826
Had he lived longer, Stalin would have been assassinated by his associates eventually as he made a lot of enemies in his inner circle. It's said that his own aides did not ask for medical assistance when Stalin had a stroke and was left immobile in his own room, making sure that Stalin would be dead when the doctor finally arrived a day later. The Kremlin was known for thought control and politically correct (политкорректно) was originally a Kremlin term for toeing the party line. Perhaps this term is the biggest cultural export from Soviet Russia to the West and many lefties in the US may have actually been Soviet spies during the Cold War.

According to the International Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences, Kremlin advisers were the first to widely use the term. They did so without a trace of irony. Calling someone “politically correct” in Soviet Russia meant they toed the party line. A PC Kremlin insider was one who could reflect what Moscow was thinking—exactly the sort of person who would go far. When “politically correct” first entered common English, it was used almost exclusively by left-wing groups to poke fun at themselves. New Left feminists deployed it to make fun of the old guard who spent too much time worrying about how to define things like a “feminist sexuality.” Progressives used it to mock their trade union–affiliated elders. Others used it as a reminder to avoid becoming like the Russia-sponsored lefties of old.
http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/05/28/the ... y-correct/
#14652932
ThirdTerm wrote:Had he lived longer, Stalin would have been assassinated by his associates eventually as he made a lot of enemies in his inner circle.

Tito assassinated Stalin. I have it from The Daily Mail, an unimpeachable source.
#14653944
ThirdTerm wrote:Had he lived longer, Stalin would have been assassinated by his associates eventually as he made a lot of enemies in his inner circle. It's said that his own aides did not ask for medical assistance when Stalin had a stroke and was left immobile in his own room, making sure that Stalin would be dead when the doctor finally arrived a day later. The Kremlin was known for thought control and politically correct (политкорректно) was originally a Kremlin term for toeing the party line. Perhaps this term is the biggest cultural export from Soviet Russia to the West and many lefties in the US may have actually been Soviet spies during the Cold War.


Doctors weren't called because doctors were distrusted and being implicated in subversive anti-Bolshevik habits (the 'doctors plot')

Smilin' Dave wrote:If as some posters have suggested there were another purge, it probably wouldn't have been run by Stalin but by someone else - possible a product of the infighting with Beria and the other security chiefs. Such a purge would be unlikely to be particularly neat and tidy, and would tend to benefit the people calling the shots, rather than the Soviet Union as a whole. For example Khrushchev might have gotten arrested, and you might initially think thats a good thing... but if you consider Beria and Malenkov could have been at the controls for longer post-Stalin as a result, it doesn't seem as positive from a Soviet perspective.


Hadn't Beria lost control over parts of the intelligence service? Stalin had started to appoint people who weren't 'his'.

With the devolution of the Politburo to a Presidium of 25 members, it would seem it would disperse the power of the older members and increase Stalin's influence.

I don't think Stalin having lived longer would have done anything. He was the primary issue of the USSR and sowed the issues for its fall. The tilt towards further repression after WWII is ridiculous; rejecting the liberal freedom movement just placed the USSR in a weak position. He was ruling over a multinational country and promoted Russian nationalism. I can't determine a justification in Socialist texts for either of these political decisions; all they did is sow a desire for political change.

I can't see how a rule based upon terror can survive when people aren't willing to use terror. Stalin was a genius in his political movements; but he hadn't built something sustainable.

It would have been interesting if Beria had remained in power after his death and the (possible) rapprochement with America.
#14653947
ThirdTerm wrote:Had he lived longer, Stalin would have been assassinated by his associates eventually as he made a lot of enemies in his inner circle.


It seems that Kruschev, Malenkov and Beria actually poisoned him. Not a lot better, of course, especially with Beria's winning in the next under-rug bulldog fight, but it still ended the period of total obscurantism and darkness. Instead of the worst African dictate, just a moderate and soft North Korean regime. It is a big progress.
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