Industrial revolution in Birmingham - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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'Cold war' communist versus capitalist ideological struggle (1946 - 1990) and everything else in the post World War II era (1946 onwards).
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#14814385
Birmingham is the cradle of modern western civilisation, it is where the industrial revolution happened, the people of the entire earth owe us everything.
#14814391
Decky wrote:Birmingham is the cradle of modern western civilisation, it is where the industrial revolution happened, the people of the entire earth owe us everything.

The people of the entire earth still owe you? It's a never ending duty it seems. :lol:

However, I meant to say that Sevillano got the idea of visiting Birmingham only because he found out you live there.
#14814469
Beren wrote:However, I meant to say that Sevillano got the idea of visiting Birmingham only because he found out you live there.


I fact I never thougt a lot about this city before but why not. I only have been in these islands in Dublin, London and Cambridge. As I said, London was good for the museums, Cambridge for the medieval style and Dublin for the people and pubs. I have the plan also to go to Schottland, Shetland islands and Cornualles.

Many places and a lot of money, but I love travel and as we say in spanish, is money well spent.
Last edited by Sevillano on 14 Jun 2017 08:45, edited 1 time in total.
#14814476
I didnt knew that the industrial revolution started there but makes sense. There are many coal mines in Wales, not far away.

You don't want to visit Birmingham, Sevillano - it's a noisy, smelly hellhole full of racist right-wing Brummies (with the single, noble exception of Comrade Decky, of course). You should visit Edinburgh instead - it is the birthplace of modern capitalism (Adam Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations here) and philosophical empiricism (David Hume lived and wrote here). As a bonus, Edinburgh is wonderfully creepy and Gothic - the city of the Body Snatchers Burke and Hare as well as the setting for Jekyll and Hyde, and most of our houses have Gothic spires just like in a horror movie. You'd have a great time here, Sevillano; just remember to bring plenty of garlic and holy water, just in case. ;)
#14814479
Potemkin wrote:You don't want to visit Birmingham, Sevillano - it's a noisy, smelly hellhole full of racist right-wing Brummies (with the single, noble exception of Comrade Decky, of course). You should visit Edinburgh instead - it is the birthplace of modern capitalism (Adam Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations here) and philosophical empiricism (David Hume lived and wrote here). As a bonus, Edinburgh is wonderfully creepy and Gothic - the city of the Body Snatchers Burke and Hare as well as the setting for Jekyll and Hyde, and most of our houses have Gothic spires just like in a horror movie. You'd have a great time here, Sevillano; just remember to bring plenty of garlic and holy water, just in case. ;)


Oh, sure. All the places in Scotland are in my objetives to visit. But visit sometimes non very tourist places can be interesting too. I remember when I was in Balkans I visited many small places from the communist period. I like the sovietic style buildings (examples of brutalist architecture). You can make interesting photos of grey buildings with snow or rain. Its totally the oposite of my city where is necessary use sunglasses because the colors and the sun are too strong.

A curiosity of The Wealth of Nations, is was published in 1776, the same year of United states independence. I hope Edinburgh would have preserved better the old style than London. I like victorians architecture too and I realise that London destroyed most of the buildings from this period and changed to horribles cristal modern buildings.
#14814484
Oh, sure. All the places in Scotland are in my objetives to visit. But visit sometimes non very tourist places can be interesting too. I remember when I was in Balkans I visited many small places from the communist period. I like the sovietic style buildings (examples of brutalist architecture). You can make interesting photos of grey buildings with snow or rain. Its totally the oposite of my city where is necessary use sunglasses because the colors and the sun are too strong.

Northern Europe is a very different place from southern Europe (obviously). In fact, it's difficult to believe they're in the same continent. The beauty of northern Europe is a subtle one, a study in shades of grey. There's nothing subtle about southern Europe. Lol.

But seriously, pack some garlic and vials of holy water if you ever visit Edinburgh. If one of the locals bares their fangs and hisses at you, you'll be prepared!

A curiosity of The Wealth of Nations, is was published in 1776, the same year of United states independence. I hope Edinburgh would have preserved better the old style than London. I like victorians architecture too and I realise that London destroyed most of the buildings from this period and changed to horribles cristal modern buildings.

The Luftwaffe had something to do with that, Sevillano. ;)
#14814537
Potemkin wrote:You should visit Edinburgh instead - it is the birthplace of modern capitalism (Adam Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations here) and philosophical empiricism (David Hume lived and wrote here).


Interesting selling point from a self confessed Communist.

Birmingham is an industrial city in the heart of England @Sevillano. The black country is the heart of the industrial revolution and techinically isn't Birmingham. However it is very close. Birmingham grew to a large city due to it's canal system and conveniently being located in the heart of England. Depending what you are looking for in a city I can both recommend and not recommend Birmingham. Obviously it has a rich heritage due to it's industrial roots. It is also home to the Staffordshire hoard. A slice of history you will not see anywhere in the world. Birmingham surrounds the countryside and is near the Malverns which was home to Elgar and Stratford home to Shakespeare. But, because of its industrial roots it does keep its industrial smell and archtecture is black on old fashioned. Travelling is a nightmare and the road system wasn't considered in Victorian England so again it's poor to get around. It does have a nice shopping centre and new train station. So if that interests you then you should visit. However Edinburgh is more cultured and pleasant visually.
#14814615
Beren wrote:The many things we don't know, huh? :lol:


Well, I knew that start in England, of course, not in a specific place. :P

Obviously it has a rich heritage due to it's industrial roots.


I like that because its more "authentic" than very turistics places, that means sometimes a place similar than theme park. Spain has also a lot of places like theme parks. For example in my city not a lot of people live in the city center. Mostly of the local people lives in the suburbs.
#14814642
You don't want to visit Birmingham, Sevillano - it's a noisy, smelly hellhole full of racist right-wing Brummies


That is not true. Birmingham city FC was the first major football club to allow non white members into its hooligan firm (the firm is called the Zulus it would have looks a bit silly if they hadn't been after all). When all the other firms were beating the shit out of any black they came across we were fighting side by side against the Villa scum.

Birmingham grew to a large city due to it's canal system and conveniently being located in the heart of England.


Actually it was metalwork (the gun trade in particular) that made us grow large, most of the guns Britain traded for slaves with the west African kingdoms were manufactured here. Our gun proofing house is still operating after over 200 years. The canals are a result of growth and industry not the cause, after all who builds a canal with no goods to transport?
#14814684
Decky wrote:That is not true. Birmingham city FC was the first major football club to allow non white members into its hooligan firm (the firm is called the Zulus it would have looks a bit silly if they hadn't been after all). When all the other firms were beating the shit out of any black they came across we were fighting side by side against the Villa scum.


Villa is part of Birmingham too Decky.

Actually it was metalwork (the gun trade in particular) that made us grow large, most of the guns Britain traded for slaves with the west African kingdoms were manufactured here. Our gun proofing house is still operating after over 200 years. The canals are a result of growth and industry not the cause, after all who builds a canal with no goods to transport?


Typical Decky. A unique outlook of history again. The Canals WERE the cause of growth in Birmingham Decky. Before them Birmingham was just a small market town in comparison. A few needles and metal workshops didn't create the canal system because the canal system was created to spread goods throughout the whole of the UK. Not to ship goods from Birmingham solely. But when looking to start up business, natually you are going to set up near a canal. And as Birmingham conveniently had them, guess where people set up.

Potemkin wrote:You clearly haven't read the Communist Manifesto, have you B0ycey? :)


Sure, it's not under my pillow as I don't consider it my bible. But being that it is about the death of Capitalism (which is yet to happen), why would you not see the hypocrisy to your post? Arrogance perhaps. A communist selling capitalism as a tourist ploy is like a Catholic selling Northern Ireland as a great place to visit because of William of Orange.
#14814709
Sure, it's not under my pillow as I don't consider it my bible.

So that's a 'no' then. :)

But being that it is about the death of Capitalism (which is yet to happen), why would you not see the hypocrisy to your post? Arrogance perhaps. A communist selling capitalism as a tourist ploy is like a Catholic selling Northern Ireland as a great place to visit because of William of Orange.

In case you don't know, Marx and Engels spend the first two or three pages of the Communist Manifesto singing the praises of capitalism. And in fact Marxism as an ideology depends upon and presupposes the existence of industrial capitalism. It is capitalism which makes socialism possible. The Industrial Revolution of the late 18th and early 19th centuries was an important epoch in human history, which created the modern world and created the material and social conditions for the eventual triumph of socialism. Why would I not celebrate that?

It seems to me, B0ycey, that you are a prime example of someone with no sense of history. You see the present moment, which is a snapshot of the historical process, and see the current political opposition between capitalism and socialism, and think that this opposition has always existed and will always exist. In reality, it is merely part of a long-term historical process by which capitalism has created and continues to create the objective conditions for the emergence of socialism, and is the necessary precursor to a truly human society. Why would I not celebrate that?
#14814717
Potemkin wrote:So that's a 'no' then. :)


lol. You assume too much.

In case you don't know, Marx and Engels spend the first two or three pages of the Communist Manifesto singing the praises of capitalism. And in fact Marxism as an ideology depends upon and presupposes the existence of industrial capitalism. It is capitalism which makes socialism possible. The Industrial Revolution of the late 18th and early 19th centuries was an important epoch in human history, which created the modern world and created the material and social conditions for the eventual triumph of socialism. Why would I not celebrate that?


Well I agree. Perhaps you should aim this post towards your Comrade Decky. You are an unusual communist. Perhaps actually a true communist. Everyone else actually adheres and wished for a different form of communism to Marx. Soviet communism wasn't communism.

It seems to me, B0ycey, that you are a prime example of someone with no sense of history. You see the present moment, which is a snapshot of the historical process, and see the current political opposition between capitalism and socialism, and think that this opposition has always existed and will always exist. In reality, it is merely part of a long-term historical process by which capitalism has created and continues to create the objective conditions for the emergence of socialism, and is the necessary precursor to a truly human society. Why would I not celebrate that?


Why not celebrate it indeed. To to me your are arrogant and want to appear well educated. Perhaps you are. You are knowledgeable. But we will never agree. Perhaps we are too simular.
#14814725
Why not celebrate it indeed. To to me your are arrogant and want to appear well educated. Perhaps you are. You are knowledgeable.

I am indeed an incredibly arrogant person. But what's wrong with that? As Nietzsche pointed out, the Christian faith has corrupted western society by glorifying the humility of the slave while condemning the pride of the master. I am a master, not a slave.

But we will never agree. Perhaps we are too simular.

Perhaps. But the truth is the truth, and cold hard reality will always win out in the end. The eventual triumph of communism is predestined. It is inscribed in the very mode of production by which we sustain our lives.
#14814737
Communism - as in true communism, has one fundamental flaw. Human instinct and desire. You admit you're arrogant, which ironically is a flaw to Marx's ideology as this trait tends to make you believe you're above others - a hierarchy if you will. Very few would invest, promote or create without reward. Nobody would go out of their way to help others if they felt neglected and was doing someone elses work for them or doing work that was more difficult to do. Capitalism has created the world we have today because it creates a reward environment. And this is human instinct. Communism is more associated with pack animal instinct. So in principle I actually think communism is a good idea... BUT could never work and would result in a lower standard in living for eveyone (so fundimentally not for it). As for Soviet or any other communism, this is more to do with brainwashing. Working for the elite. It is more anti working class than you can ever imagine. But as I say to any communist, if you want to work for the state, work yourself to death, do 60 hour weeks, lose free speech and have no leisure time, I really don't understand why you don't move to a communist country today. So as I said in my last post, we will never agree. So we will have to see if you're correct and Communism comes out of the ashes and creates this utopian dream of yours after the next financial crisis (or whenever).
#14814739
Potemkin wrote:Perhaps. But the truth is the truth, and cold hard reality will always win out in the end. The eventual triumph of communism is predestined. It is inscribed in the very mode of production by which we sustain our lives.
Capitalism is fuelling socialism, but I wonder if there will be any triumph. The achievements of a socialist state in isolation will not last long in a world full of predatory capitalist neighbours. Not to mention that the culmination and increasing complexity of the global challenges we face may very well lead our civilisation to its death in the cradle, or perhaps, even worse, impose (the return of) tribalism and feudalism in the aftermath of a global conflict. And even if socialism succeeds globally and on time, geopolitical rivalries, tensions, disputes and hence also conflicts between states/polities will remain (for example, consider the Sino-Soviet tensions).

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