[The Immortal Goon]

1918 -

The Constituent Assembly is dissolved by the Bolsheviks in favor of the Soviets and a bitter Fanya Kaplan shoots Lenin on August 30, 1918 as he leaves a factory and succeeds. The Cheka question her, but all she says is:

My name is Fanya Kaplan. Today I shot at Lenin. I did it on my own. I will not say whom I obtained my revolver. I will give no details. I had resolved to kill Lenin long ago. I consider him a traitor to the Revolution. I was exiled to Akatui for participating in an assassination attempt against a Tsarist official in Kiev. I spent eleven years at hard labour. After the Revolution I was freed. I favoured the Constituent Assembly and am still for it.

Lenin struggles for breath in the Kremlin and eventually dies the same day.

Poland is looking for independence, the Russian Revolution is about to become the Russian Civil War.

What happens?

-TIG

[Rhinestone Pseudo-Commie]

First off, the obvious excecution of Fanya Kaplan by Cheka after several days of intense questioning and torture.

Chaos ensues among the Soviets. A faction war between high ranking officials of the Revolution, Tsarist loyals, peasant populations, and German pressure destroys the Russian economy. The Soviets, fighting amongst themselves, are overtaken by the Tsarists in Kiev and several key Baltic cities. Moscow becomes an early example of 1992 Sarajavo as the civilian population flees.

In the long run, two official states are established. Baltic Russia is present day Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia with fortress cities from St. Petersburg to Murmansk. Although controlled by the Tsar loyalists, the nation is considerably weak and communist insurgents control the countryside within 200km kilometers of the border with the Soviet Union. Red Scare advocats in Western Europe and the United States provide supplies to the people. Capital is established at Minsk.

The Soviet Union is impoverished but soverign. Stalin has control from the border of Baltic Russia to the Volga. Most resources are used in the army, creating a situation similar to that of present day North Korea. There are no efforts whatsoever to move into Asia as every single person's efforts are toward the destruction of the Tsarists. Capital is established at Moscow.

Poland becomes independent and democratic. White Russia cannot keep control because the entire military is at the front, and Germany is still in economic shambles after WW1.

Within 15 years, the Soviet Union takes Minsk. Unfortunately Hitler is now in power. The Soviet Union is slow to revive the problems of the civil war, and it is destroyed by the Germans in WW2.

[Ombrageux]

No way Stalin would have control of any Soviet Union at this point. He was unpopular, could barely speak Russian and was simply seen as weird. One of leaders of the St Petersburg or Moscow Soviets would be in a very good position to seize power. I'm not sure what would happen to Trotsky, without Lenin's protection, it's conceivable the Old Guard communists would have rejected him.

[Rhinestone Pseudo-Commie]

You're absolutely right about Stalin. He was insane, lazy, and too Georgian to run the Soviet Union in a state of war (thus the almost complete destruction of the Soviet Union in WW2). I just didn't think Trotsky could take control and Stalin was the only other Soviet player I could think of. If someone could name someone important besides the two, that would be great.

[Ombrageux]

There names escape me, but there were fairly average leaders (very mainstream) of the St Pete and Moscow soviets.

[C-Kokos]

Perhaps at such a crisis Trotsky WOULD have used the Army to prevent the collapse of the Revolution.

[Rhinestone Pseudo-Commie]

Or perhaps Trotsky WOULD have prefered to be mauled by an ice pick in Mexico City by an nkvd assasin (as history foretells). He had the mind, but not the charisma. There is no way in hell he could lead the Soviet Union.

[C-Kokos]

That is a totally ignorant statement. It was Trotsky's fiery rhetorics that inspired the revolution and the fight during the civil war. He effectively led the Red Army. He was far more intelligent than all members of the politburo.

There was no man that could lead the Union better than Trotsky.

[Ombrageux]

Trotsky might have been able to inspire the masses. But no way do I believe the actual Communist party would have followed his leadership. The Old Guard despised this late-comer protégé of Lenin. At best, perhaps Trotsky could splinter off from the mainstream Communists, perhaps causing infighting within the Communists, but in no way do I think the bulk of the party would have followed him.

[C-Kokos]

Why is why I implied that it would be a possibility that he MADE them follow him, you know, being the head of the Army and all.

[Rhinestone Pseudo-Commie]

My question is, "Can we all agree that the Russian Civil War would last longer because of discontent within the Soviet leadership?"

[Red_Army]

Lenin only lasted a little longer anyway, I don't predict much change. Stalin would slowly build up his credentials like he did in real life, using old Bolsheviks to gain strength unti he could exile Trotsky. Trotsky was charismatic but not the kind of person to run something as complicated as the Bolshevik party.

[Rhinestone Pseudo-Commie]

Wouldn't there be a power vacuum? Everyone knew Lenin was dying in real history, but this death was sudden. There was no plan for power.

[The Immortal Goon]

Chaos ensues among the Soviets. A faction war between high ranking officials of the Revolution, Tsarist loyals, peasant populations, and German pressure destroys the Russian economy. The Soviets, fighting amongst themselves, are overtaken by the Tsarists in Kiev and several key Baltic cities. Moscow becomes an early example of 1992 Sarajavo as the civilian population flees.

This is kind of what I was thinking, actually. In real history we also see that Lenin was a lynchpin. His leadership took the Bolsheviks through many of their idological struggles - the National Question, Revolutionary Defeatism, ect.

I don't think Stalin would have taken charge, and I think Trotsky would have been in a good position - as he was building up the army at this point, but my guess would be that he would be occupied with this while someone else took up the matel of the Bolsheviks - Bukharin perhaps, who might have actually seen from Trotsky's point of view through the Civil War - but Bukharin makes a sharp rightward turn, which could have caused the country in to chaos.

However, I suspect that the Bolsheviks would have been broken up - as they tended to schism when Lenin wasn't there - and probably fallen prey to the Whites, who would have preformed better and thus been supplemented better by the Allied powers.

Russia goes White, and many of the Revolutionaries flee to Germany, where they have the Revolution.

The Revolution would catch on in Germany because fascism wouldn't have the "anti-bolshevik" appeal that it had in real history.

After this, things get harder to divine, but it is conceivable that France would go as well, as a growing socialist movement in the UK and US, as well as depression, would keep them occupied for a while. The Spanish Civil War might have gone to the Republicans, but in the end - a White Russia and the Western powers could pincer-attack continental Europe with relitive ease.

-TIG

[Rhinestone Pseudo-Commie]

A complete opposite of what history fortells. I like that.