[Thunderhawk]

Was the mega inflation in Germany a planned event?
If yes, who w[ere] the architects of that megainflation?

If there was a Jew amoung them, it might have fueled Hitler's hatred even further.

[PBVBROOK]

"In 1933, when all the nations were still at peace with this wicked man, Hitler; when there was no other way but to employ the tried and true method of using humbleness and soft words, these self-appointed Zionist leaders acted contrary to the dictates of wisdom, and contrary to the oaths to which the Almighty had sworn the Jewish people in exile not to rebel among the nations. To a large extent, it was they, themselves, who drove this mad dog Hitler, to the ultimate in insane meanderings and subsequently parallel actions"

Who wrote this tripe? 1933? Here is an excerpt from a letter Adoph Hitler wrote to Mr. Gemlich on 16 September 1919.

The deduction from all this is the following: an antisemitism based on purely emotional grounds will find its ultimate expression in the form of the pogrom.[1] An antisemitism based on reason, however, must lead to systematic legal combatting and elimination of the privileges of the Jews, that which distinguishes the Jews from the other aliens who live among us (an Aliens Law). The ultimate objective [of such legislation] must, however, be the irrevocable removal of the Jews in general.

Hitler had just returned from a military hospital where he had participated in a Reichswehr sponsored course of systematic political education for demobilizing soldiers that featured Pan- German nationalism, antisemitism, and anti-socialism. This is not the only letter extant where Hitler forwards his antisemetic views. In the above some say one can see that AH already considered a "final solution".

The very idea that a thinking person could even consider attaching some sort of blame to the Jews for the holocaust is sickening. Time for someone to have a time out for a cure. Dr. PBVBROOK perscribes that you take the waters at Dachau.

[Tonic]

PD McGee

How could anyone possibly believe that the Jewish people brought the Holocaust upon themselves? The whole idea is not filled with holes, it's one giant hole itself. I hate to be dismissive, but it's almost not worth giving this arguement a response.

"Judea Declares War on Germany" was a front-page headline on the March 24, 1933 edition of the British newspaper, the Daily Express. It began an article which announced a boycott against German goods and products.

Was this reaction as much as it was just was also the one which escalated the situation? The question is of cause and effect. Why it's so hard to accept it?

[PBVBROOK]

Did you read my post sport?

Care to comment on that?

Your whole theory is absurd. It defy's reason. It is wrong and all of the evidence argues against it. I would say it is a joke but it is even to tasteless to be a joke.

[War Angel]

Tonic have you lost your mind?

\
No, it's a valid point, Oxymoron.

Jews are mostly an insufferable bunch. Add to that the fact most of them have been far more successful than their non-Jewish neighbours, had more money and far too much influence for such a small minority, and you'd get one thing - HATE. Now, normally that wouldn't lead to much more than just hate, with some outbursts of violence... but what the Nazis did was to UNITE Europe under one flag, one operation, and that's the extermination of the Jews.

The Jews did not bring the Holocaust upon themselves. They did, however, have a part in causing Europeans to hate them.

[Tonic]

War Angel

Finally some intelligent response.

Without justification any Nazi grievances or blaming the Jewish scapegoats. The Nazi rise came also as reaction to the Bolshevik revolutionaries.

[Falx]

Jews are mostly an insufferable bunch. Add to that the fact most of them have been far more successful than their non-Jewish neighbours, had more money and far too much influence for such a small minority, and you'd get one thing - HATE. Now, normally that wouldn't lead to much more than just hate, with some outbursts of violence... but what the Nazis did was to UNITE Europe under one flag, one operation, and that's the extermination of the Jews.

And the Gypsies, and the gays, and the Slavs, and the Communists, and the Socialists and anyone that they didn't like. Also the first part is quite wrong, the vast majority of Jews, because of the unfair laws against them had been living in conditions worse than their nonjewish counterparts. Furthering the myth of Jews as rich bankers does your side no good.

To the original question: Hitler viewed all communists as Jewish led scum against the father land. How true that is I do not know, but he did state it time and time again.

[PBVBROOK]

Jews are mostly an insufferable bunch. Add to that the fact most of them have been far more successful than their non-Jewish neighbours, had more money and far too much influence for such a small minority, and you'd get one thing - HATE. Now, normally that wouldn't lead to much more than just hate, with some outbursts of violence... but what the Nazis did was to UNITE Europe under one flag, one operation, and that's the extermination of the Jews

I disagree with every point you made. What nonsense. You are talking about a country barely out of the 19th Century. If you had said that Jews had been scapegoats for a couple of centuries I would have agreed.

What is really sad is that, with your line of reasoning, you take away one of the greatest horrors of the haulocaust; that educated and civilized people like the Germas were able to see themselves clear to systematically butcher children, women and the infirm.

Educated people do not go there. Enlightened people do not go there. Civilized people do not go there. And people who do nothing about it are as guilty as the perpertrators. And for that they had thier cities burnt down around thier ears. And got off to easily indeed.

[Tonic]

Falx

To the original question: Hitler viewed all communists as Jewish led scum against the father land. How true that is I do not know, but he did state it time and time again.

Indeed they were mostly Jews but not against the father land.
The Bolshvik revolution seemed threatening by other democracies as well. As the capitalists of Britain, France and America, who saw the Communist success galvanising the left wing of their own working classes. The Jews were attracted to those ideas because the old order had little forthem. For them Tzarist Russia was mainly pogroms. And so on.

On 8 February 1920, Winston Churchill, then the Secretary for War, told readers of the Illustrated Sunday Herald about “Trotsky ... [and] ... his schemes of a world-wide communistic state under Jewish domination”.

"There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews."

That's why Britain supported the Zionist scheme. They thought rightly that the unbearable condition of the Jewish status in Europe was leading them to change the civil order. And to all the revolutionaries parties in the world.

Churchill wrote on Bolshvism vs. Zionism “the fury with which Trotsky has attacked the Zionists generally, and Dr Weizmann in particular. The struggle which is now beginning between the Zionist and Bolshevik Jews is little less than a struggle for the soul of the Jewish people.”

[Tonic]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 39772.html



Uncovered: Churchill's warnings about the 'Hebrew bloodsuckers'
Unpublished article from 1937 suggests 'aloof' Jews to blame for antagonism towards them




By Paul Bignell
Sunday, 11 March 2007

Winston Churchill suggested Jewish people were "partly responsible for the antagonism" that saw them branded "Hebrew bloodsuckers", according to an article made public for the first time today.


The 1937 document, "How the Jews Can Combat Persecution", was unearthed by Dr Richard Toye, a Cambridge University historian. Written three years before Churchill became Prime Minister, the article has apparently lain unnoticed in the Churchill archives at Cambridge since the early months of the Second World War.

The article argues that "the wickedness of the persecutors" was not the sole reason for the ill-treatment of Jews down the ages. Churchill criticised the "aloofness" of Jewish people from wider society and urged them to make the effort to integrate themselves."

Dr Toye said: "I nearly fell off my chair when I found the article. It appears to have been overlooked. I think a lot of people thought that the file it was in only contained copies of articles that had already been published. It was certainly quite a shock to read some of these things and it is obviously at odds with the traditional idea we have of Churchill."

The article was intended for the US publication Liberty but withdrawn when another magazine Churchill wrote for objected to him supplying a rival.

In the piece Churchill criticised Jewish employers in the clothing trade and their use of sweated labour. Because refugee Jews escaping the Nazi regime in Germany were willing to work for lower wages, this was in his view "bad citizenship" because it forced English workers out of jobs - and "bad policy" as it created anti-Semitism. Churchill says: "The central fact which dominates the relations of Jew and non-Jew is that the Jew is 'different'. He looks different. He thinks differently. He has a different tradition and background."

He then goes on to criticise Jewish moneylenders: "Every Jewish moneylender recalls Shylock and the idea of the Jews as usurers. And you cannot reasonably expect a struggling clerk or shopkeeper, paying 40 or 50 per cent interest on borrowed money to a 'Hebrew Bloodsucker', to reflect that almost every other way of life was closed to the Jewish people."

Elsewhere in the article Churchill is sympathetic towards Jewish people and clearly disapproves of their persecution: "The Jew is, as a rule, a good citizen. He is sober, industrious and law-abiding... The Jews are suffering from persecutions, cruel and relentless."

Dr Toye said: "Although Churchill lapsed into some extremely unfortunate stereotypes, he did so in the context of trying to be helpful - trying to help the Jews avoid persecution. But unfortunately he kind of blames the Jews themselves in part."

However, Sir Martin Gilbert, Churchill's biogra-pher, says there is another reason for the anti-Semitic language: "Churchill had a ghostwriter who was a member of the Mosleyite party. This article was the only serious subject the ghostwriter was asked to tackle, in which he went over the top in the use of his language."

But long before Hitler had emerged on the world stage, Winston Churchill had written as follows in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, London, of February 8, 1920: "There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one. It probably outweighs all others. With the possible exception of Lenin, the leading figures are Jews. Moreover the principal inspiration and driving power comes Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherine, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunachasski cannot be compared with the power (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek - all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more outstanding. And the foremost, if not indeed the principal part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases, by Jewesses."

Churchill wrote of a "world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization." Even though Churchill's Illustrated Sunday Herald article sought to present Political Zionism as a movement of "good" Jews as opposed to the "bad" Jews of Communism, it did not prevent an outbreak of Jewish fury against Churchill. Churchill had drawn attention to a "world-wide conspiracy" which upset both Communist and Zionist Jews. In his autobiographical work. Trial and Error, Chaim Weizmann, who played a major role in gaining Western politician's support for the establishment of the Zionist State of Israel, provides a fascinating outline of the struggle for power between the Zionists and Communists among Russian Jewish communities last century. Both were united in their desire to destroy Russia. Weizmann Quotes his own mother as saying that if a Communist revolutionary son was proved right she would be content to live in Communist Russia, but that if the Zionist revolution triumphed she would be happy in Palestine. Weizmann's mother spent some years in Bolshevik Russia, before ending her days in Zionist Israel, where her son Chaim was the first President.




Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 8, 1920



Zionism versus Bolshevism.
A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People

By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.

SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.

Disraeli, the Jew Prime Minister of England, and Leader of the Conservative Party, who was always true to his race and proud of his origin, said on a well-known occasion: "The Lord deals with the nations as the nations deal with the Jews." Certainly when we look at the miserable state of Russia, where of all countries in the world the Jews were the most cruelly treated, and contrast it with the fortunes of our own country, which seems to have been so providentially preserved amid the awful perils of these times, we must admit that nothing that has since happened in the history of the world has falsified the truth of Disraeli's confident assertion.


Terrorist Jews

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

It becomes, therefore, specially important to foster and develop any strongly-marked Jewish movement which leads directly away from these fatal associations. And it is here that Zionism has such a deep significance for the whole world at the present time.

A Home for the Jews

Zionism offers the third sphere to the political conceptions of the Jewish race. In violent contrast to international communism, it presents to the Jew a national idea of a commanding character. it has fallen to the British Government, as the result of the conquest of Palestine, to have the opportunity and the responsibility of securing for the Jewish race all over the world a home and centre of national life. The statesmanship and historic sense of Mr. Balfour were prompt to seize this opportunity. Declarations have now been made which have irrevocably decided the policy of Great Britain. The fiery energies of Dr. Weissmann, the leader, for practical purposes, of the Zionist project. backed by many of the most prominent British Jews, and supported by the full authority of Lord Allenby, are all directed to achieving the success of this inspiring movement.

Zionism has already become a factor in the political convulsions of Russia, as a powerful competing influence in Bolshevik circles with the international communistic system. Nothing could be more significant than the fury with which Trotsky has attacked the Zionists generally, and Dr. Weissmann in particular. The cruel penetration of his mind leaves him in no doubt that his schemes of a world-wide communistic State under Jewish domination are directly thwarted and hindered by this new ideal, which directs the energies and the hopes of Jews in every land towards a simpler, a truer, and a far more attainable goal. The struggle which is now beginning between the Zionist and Bolshevik Jews is little less than a struggle for the soul of the Jewish people.

But a negative resistance to Bolshevism in any field is not enough. Positive and practicable alternatives are needed in the moral as well as in the social sphere; and in building up with the utmost possible rapidity a Jewish national centre in Palestine which may become not only a refuge to the oppressed from the unhappy lands of Central Europe, but which will also be a symbol of Jewish unity and the temple of Jewish glory, a task is presented on which many blessings rest.

[AmericanPatriot]

Seems like everyone is out to get the Jews on this website. You are trying to tell me that the Jewish peoples of Germany created Hitler? Nonsense! Another one of those dumb-as-shit-hypothetical-conspiracy-bullshit combination of lies that everyone buys into these days. It is common knowledge that Hitler created the whole 'problem' about the Jewish peoples of Germany by stating that they were responsible for Germany's fragile economic state. He merely used the Jewish population as a common enemy to rally the German people in an attempt to create a powerful state yet again. Too bad he failed, the little fucker. Anti-semitic bullshit gets people no where. If anyone is to blame for all the religious battles of history and subsequently today, it's the Muslims. Crusades, Ottoman Empire, etc.

[soron]

One of the opinion leaders in the Nazi party was Julius Streicher. He was the editor of the weekly newspaper "Der Stuermer" (1923-1945). From 1927 the newspaper carried the quote "the jews are our misfortune" on the title of every edition. The "Stuermer" was the major hate newspaper against the jewish population, and Streicher himself never got tired trying to bend Hitler to his ideas.

[noemon]

Regarding the author:

The Rabbi's as all other spiritual leaders perform the most basic function: Laying the ground where nationalism can flourish, especially during War period.

That involves a lot of psychological preparation.

Now, let's go to Hitler's War.

The way the Holocaust is projected and taught in the West paints a picture of David and Goliath. Poor, scattered Jews(David) face the Japethic Goliath once again, only this time the Jews did not fight, David run, hid, was hunted and killed like a dog, Goliath fell but not through David's strike. Here, lies a major problem for the Jewish people, they are unable to draw any psycho-credit for Hitler's failure. Some years before the War, "Judea has declared War on Germany", Germany accepted the challenge, and Judea was on the run.

This(David's failure to strike) has created huge problems in Judaic psychology, Rabbis have to work over it, and surpass the psychological problem of failure. The "passive-scapegoat line of narration" served its purpose to draw funds from the Germans and secure the amount of Western pity needed to settle Palestine, now the Jewish people need a revision on David's role for Hitler's Fall, David cannot be on the run, now David needs to stand and fight, and since the old narrative of David running is of no direct use today, the Rabbi's will revise it carefully, for revising this hinders many obvious dangers.

[Quercus Robur]

wow, to suggest something so loathsome you'd better come up with better sources than two hateful terror groups (granted Neturei has a much larger more moderate branch)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6171503.stm

""The Zionists, with their secular pompous approach behave in complete opposition to this philosophy and dare to say 'Never Again'.

They have the audacity to think that they can prevent the Almighty from repeating a Holocaust. This is heresy."

The holocaust is God's punishment on the Jews for being pompous could have come from Mein Kampf.

[NYYS]

Jews are mostly an insufferable bunch.

Ok, you've got to explain this... You mentioned it in another thread, but I forgot what one so I'll ask here: what is so annoying about Jews in groups?

[War Angel]

what is so annoying about Jews in groups?

This was a very broad generalisation on my part, of-course. Jews are great - I love Jews. Still, they can get annoying. They are prejudiced (a very natural reaction given our history, but still), they whine, bicker, they are often obssessed with certain issues or ideals, and they often 'keep to themselves', creating a feeling of isolation in their own society, and a feeling of non-assimilation in their surroundings. That's at least what I've been told and seen - being an Israel, I haven't witnessed it happening first-hand. This is not true for most 'liberal Jews', who've embraced their country's way of life, and are often quite distant from their Jewish heritage (many American Jews are like that).

This is true almost solely for Jews abroad. Things are widely different in Israel, where the majority of inhabitants are Jews, and having fought and worked hard enough, they've gained a sense of... respect for the society they live in.