[Figlio di Moros]

Oh no, here we go again. The poor bloody Jews. Oi vay, my people, my people. Never mind that they believe themsleves to be God's chosen ones. And the rest of us are just gentile inferiors. That's not racism. That is not important.

Are they not at least partially to blame for their circumstance?

No, of course not, the Jews have been nothing but oppressed throughout history. It's not like they attacked anyone who suggested they stop chopping bits off their kid's dicks, or had a habit of usury through out their history that was perfectly ok because everyone else was gentiles. Nope, they're innocent minorities who never economically degraded or instigated problems with anyone.

This thread is typical of people's mindsets, liberals fighting each other over how much Jew-cock they can swallow and dismissing the other for spitting. Somewhere along the line the prospect of not resting balls on their chin became completely foreign.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Or do you actually believe that only ground operations count?

Flattening Germany's major cities and thousands of war production facilities had an enormously negative effect on Germany's ability to make war on its Western, Eastern and Southern fronts.

Who actually said that the Western Allies did not bomb German territory or contribute to the war effort? If you read my post again, you'll notice it wasn't me. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else.

Perhaps your buddies are exceedingly dumb and you should find a better class of cronies to hang out with that can actually read.

I never said that I have any acquaintances who think America did all the heavy lifting in Europe. You should read people's posts instead of imagining what people's posts say.

And once again I have never heard any American with an ounce of brains say that Patton beat Germany alone...I think you made that shit up, but I am at a loss to understand why you would misrepresent Americans in that absurd way. Could it be an attempt at, self aggrandizement?

I have. I have heard Americans claim that Obama is a Communist and the Antichrist, I have heard Americans say that Bush was going to implement a coup d'etat and take over the government, I have heard people say that NAFTA is a new world order conspiracy, that 9/11 was an inside job, and I've heard people not only say that the Soviets didn't fight the majority of Germany's armed forces, but they think the movie called Patton was about a guy named Patton who would've marched to Berlin and personally won the war in Europe if Eisenhower hadn't held him back to make the Russkies feel better.

Also, I can see why you've got a yellow card. Not only do you randomly and bizarrely level very weird and strange claims about people, you don't fully read a person's post but you respond to what you think they've written. Contrary to what you might think, you look incoherent doing so.

I'm new to this forum but I'd like to ask you that if you plan on engaging in a discussion with me you do me the same courtesy I show you in being civil and read my posts. When you make things up about what I've said, it makes me responding to those imaginary comments difficult because I didn't say them, so I can't comment on what doesn't exist. Thank you.

[Xbow]

Also, I can see why you've got a yellow card. Not only do you randomly and bizarrely level very weird and strange claims about people, you don't fully read a person's post but you respond to what you think they've written. Contrary to what you might think, you look incoherent doing so.

I read your absurd post in detail and found it lacking in both depth and understanding. Since, your post was devoid of any factual content I decided educate you.

"and I've heard people not only say that the Soviets didn't fight the majority of Germany's armed forces,"

Bulaba, That tells me that you haven't a clue about the scale of WW-2.

But do me a favor and name a few Americans that think Patton won the war all by himself...if you can. (snicker)

Also, I can see why you've got a yellow card. Not only do you randomly and bizarrely level very weird and strange claims about people, you don't fully read a person's post but you respond to what you think they've written. Contrary to what you might think, you look incoherent doing so.

Is that your version of neener-neener-neener? How impressive. I suggest that you make better posts and support your positions with some facts and do watch that snarky little attitude of yours or I'll report it in the basement. Do you understand?

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

-snip-

Okay cool, just thought I'd ask.

I like your username. It reminds me of rainbows and Xboxes. I don't actually love Xboxes but I think rainbows are fabulous.

[Xbow]

Zag Edit: Removed off-topic insulting language

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

What a silly little attempt at a troll that comment is. But hey, now that you mention it I like your username and avatar as well they remind me of things that a guy that hangs out on theEVE Online might use. Hey, did you enjoy dropping the hammer on womp rats with your blasters when flying you T-16 through beggars canyon on Tatooine?

And I figured that you liked rainbows and I don't mean to say that you identify with that as a gay pride symbol...but its ok that you love them for whatever reason that you do.

Rainbows are pretty sweet. I'm not sure how that constitutes trolling. And why are you searching the internet pulling up my killboard? Battleclinic sucks... Eve kill is better. Everyone who isn't a scrub knows this.

Anyways let's agree to disagree on stuff and let people get back to talking about how FDR was super cool.

Zag Edit: Please do not use large font styles

[Beal]

Oh no, here we go again. The poor bloody Jews. Oi vay, my people, my people. Never mind that they believe themsleves to be God's chosen ones. And the rest of us are just gentile inferiors. That's not racism. That is not important.

Are they not at least partially to blame for their circumstance?

No, of course not, the Jews have been nothing but oppressed throughout history. It's not like they attacked anyone who suggested they stop chopping bits off their kid's dicks, or had a habit of usury through out their history that was perfectly ok because everyone else was gentiles. Nope, they're innocent minorities who never economically degraded or instigated problems with anyone.

What exactly are you two trying to justify with these comments? Are you seriously arguing that they had it coming?

[Figlio di Moros]

Perhaps today we're so accustomed to bending over for financiers that we've forgotten how a normal society reacts to usury. [content cut out for admin review - SD]. Are we to pardon Jews for such crimes out of fear of being called antisemites, or is the general welfare actually important enough to warrant actions against them as well?

[Beal]

Perhaps today we're so accustomed to bending over for financiers that we've forgotten how a normal society reacts to usury. [cut for admin review - SD]. Are we to pardon Jews for such crimes out of fear of being called antisemites, or is the general welfare actually important enough to warrant actions against them as well?

So is that a yes? They had it coming?

[Figlio di Moros]

I'm sorry, are you attempting to strawman me? I've already provided my answer.

[Xbow]

And why are you searching the internet pulling up my killboard? Battleclinic sucks... Eve kill is better. Everyone who isn't a scrub knows this.

Don't sweat it I just entered Bulaba into a search engine (to see if it had some inner meaning) and tapped the first link and your Avatar popped up. Besides that I wouldn't know Eve kill or Battle Clinic from one another. The only PC games I play and mod for are Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and Fallout Tactics once in awhile. (FOT is unrewarding since speech between PC and C's was hard coded out of the game. No real way to make it a genuine open ended RPG) Although some Russians gave it a hell of a shot a few years back. I'm looking forward to Wasteland II by Brian Fargo (creator of Fallout I & II). And I admit to playing the Day Z Arma II mod.

Anyways let's agree to disagree on stuff and let people get back to talking about how FDR was super cool.

Yes indeed! FDR!!!
But I do recommend that you lose or tone down the amazing colossal text Bulaba J, the management hates that stuff...seriously.

And of FDR, any man that can steal the gold fillings out of my great, great grand daddy's teeth and buy his little collection of gold coins at half their value with nothing but a pistol pointed at his head has to have something going for him. Aw Shucks! Alright, it didn't take a pistol the whispered command from FDR was enough to make the little people comply instantly and line up to get fleeced.

In truth the only good thing about FDR was that he forced congress to maintain and continue to upgrade the US Navy into the most capable and modernized Battle Fleet in the world. Why heck, that boy had two brand new 40,000 ton Battle wagons building in the late 1930's and a few new aircraft carriers. In the middle of the the depression!

Some folks say that FDR saw trouble on the horizon and smelled a big fat dirty rat in Tokyo. I guess that's why at a time when the Navy didn't have the hots for Attack submarines FDR made sure they had subs that could take the guess work out of arriving at torpedo firing solutions with the Mk III Torpedo Data Computer**, pull 22 knots on the surface, 10 knots submerged with a range of 12,000 nautical miles...Perfect for operations in the Pacific Ocean.

Line ahead in 1932 (long range search and fire control radar coming in 1934)

**A ballistic computer with the same degree of refinement was fitted to most of the US Navy's Battleships, heavy & light cruisers well before WW-2 and these were set up to be integrated with and deliver real time gunnery solutions with the highly advanced (for the time) 50,000 watt Mk13 3mm Radar. (Radar fire control front runners USA, UK, Fr, Germany, Italy, Japan in that order. Optical Fire control Front Runners Japan, Germany, USA, Fr, UK, Italy.

Anyone that tells me that FDR FAILED with respect to favoring the US Navy over the other services in the tight budget environment of inter-war years or that he was wrong to do so can IMHO take a long hike of a short pier.

[Beal]

I'm sorry, are you attempting to strawman me?

Afraid to answer a simple yes or no question?

I've already provided my answer.

Following a discussion of the oppression of Jews in Europe and the US, including the holocaust, you commented that the Jews are guilty of attacking others and practicing usury, and that the general welfare warrants taking action against them. I am ignoring the obvious prejudice it takes to condemn an entire group of people for the crimes you believe that some of those people have committed.

I am more interested in why you made these particular comments in this context--in this thread--if it was not to justify the oppression of Jews, up to and possibly including the holocaust.

Did the Jews deserve the oppression they received? It seems pretty clear that this is what you are claiming. You don't "pardon" them for their crimes. That indicates to me that you believe the Jews deserve to be punished. How else can I interpret your comments?

[Zagadka]

Are we to pardon Jews for such crimes out of fear of being called antisemites, or is the general welfare actually important enough to warrant actions against them as well?

Well, historically, Jews were the bankers because the Christians couldn't handle the money.

I don't think it is necessary to pardon Jews for past usury unless they are committing usury, so blaming them for usury is kinda stupid, in the same manner that I don't blame white southerners (or hell, any white people, or actually, any people ever in any of the majority of history where slavery was used) for the past crimes of slavery and don't expect reparations to be made for what was done generations ago.

If a Jew is a usurer, then call them such. If they aren't even in banking, what the hell are you talking about?

[Xbow]

Well, historically, Jews were the bankers because the Christians couldn't handle the money.

Actually I believe the Knights Templar evolved into Europe's bankers for quite some time and invented the check, checking accounts and charged interest and handling fees on loans and money transfers. It was those Christians that actually created modern banking.

Perhaps the Jews at one time were seen as more notorious with respect to interest rates and specie conversion rates but I can't swear to that. Of course in Medieval Europe the Jews despite their occasional wealth had little political or physical force to ensure that they were paid back what they had loaned to Christians and so started jacking up their general usury rates to cover their losses on loans that went bad.

[Zagadka]

I don't know if the Templars invented it, but most of medieval Christianity regarded interest on loans as sinful. Though it is also technically sinful in Judaism. And I doubt the Templars really invented or spread it, since it is directly referenced multiple times in biblical texts saying not to do it, meaning it must have been widespread before at least 500 BCE.

[The Immortal Goon]

The Templars were doing it and got it from the Islamic world, in no small part. The Chinese were doing it too, among others.

Protestants were quicker to do it, but by that time Catholics-like the Templars-had been doing it for some time. So, really, some Western Europeans had a problem with it. Others didn't. So let's get all the Jews?

[Xbow]

The Templars were doing it and got it from the Islamic world, in no small part. The Chinese were doing it too, among others.

I think the Muslims called interest and fees 'Riba' and it was frowned upon by the Clerics only if the Riba was too steep. The Catholic Church and others had no problem with Usury as long as they had an open line of credit.

The Knights' involvement in banking grew over time into a new basis for money, as Templars became increasingly involved in banking activities. One indication of their powerful political connections is that the Templars' involvement in usury did not lead to more controversy within the Order and the church at large. Officially the idea of lending money in return for interest was forbidden by the church, but the Order sidestepped this with clever loopholes, such as a stipulation that the Templars retained the rights to the production of mortgaged property. Or as one Templar researcher put it, "Since they weren't allowed to charge interest, they charged rent instead."[8]

And I believe they were allowed to charge hefty fees for the guaranteed safe transportation of wealth where with the exception of losses related to acts of god the money in transit if lost would be refunded (insurance?).

If a guy wanted to move the wealth he acquired in the Holy Land to Europe he could deposit it in a Templar House in Jerusalem and get in return an encrypted letter that described his deposits and their value. Then while in transit the traveler could withdraw amounts he needed at any Templar House and the letter would be amended and the Traveler could once again hit the road and be safe because he wouldn't be carrying much hard money and was thus not a target for brigands. I call that a prepaid ATM card.

[Quantum]

I don't know why Kman really cares, or pretends to care, about FDR's politically incorrect opinion. It's a testament to how the so-called "right wing" has degenerated over the last few decades by adopting Culturally Marxist tactics of calling the other guy a bigot. No wonder the liberals manage to inflict defeat upon defeat on the right as the right concede every victory.

[Kman]

I don't know why Kman really cares, or pretends to care, about FDR's politically incorrect opinion. It's a testament to how the so-called "right wing" has degenerated over the last few decades by adopting Culturally Marxist tactics of calling the other guy a bigot. No wonder the liberals manage to inflict defeat upon defeat on the right as the right concede every victory.

FDR was not a rightwinger, he was a statist asshole who wanted to micromanage people just like dictators like Stalin or Mao. I am not attacking one of my own rightwingers, I am attacking someone who is on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me.

[Quantum]

FDR was not a rightwinger, he was a statist asshole who wanted to micromanage people just like dictators like Stalin or Mao.

I was talking about you, not FDR.