[Ixa]

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/stalindeaths.html

Exaggerations against Stalin

by MC5
December, 1994

One of the most maligned periods of history in the Soviet Union is the so-called Great Terror from 1935 to 1941. This period is also marked by the so-called Purge Trials of the mid-1930s. According to Anton Antonov-Ovseyenko(1), Stalin's "terror" in that period resulted in 19 million dead.

Of course, by this time, World War II was already on in Asia and Africa with Japan and Italy on the move. Stalin was preparing for World War II and historians argue whether Stalinism represented a general high level of repressiveness all the time or just "Great Terror" at some times. MIM does not discuss this here.

As it turns out, there is no need to discuss history with Antonov-Ovseyenko and many other critics of Stalin. No it is not necessary to discuss the deaths in Siberia fighting Japan or in Finland thanks to the war that was going on in those years. Academic sources show that Stalin's "Great Terror" couldn't have killed 19 million.

Fewer than 25 million died from all causes from 1935 to 1941. That's using concrete numbers for 1935 to 1941 and the highest number from that period to estimate 1941, which according to historians was well past the peak of the "Great Terror" anyway. (2)

So to arrive at 19 million deaths to blame on Stalin, there had to be fewer than 6 million deaths from normal causes between 1935 and 1941. Again to round off in our critics' favor, let's assume that to be 900,000 deaths a year for seven years as the deaths from normal causes. So for example, in 1936, that would mean a crude death rate from normal causes of less than 5 per 1000 a year, based on a population of 180.2 million people in the Soviet Union.

That's impossible and the death rate has never been that low in the Soviet Union, Stalin or no Stalin, not even in 1982, when the crude death rate was 10.1. (3) In fact, the crude death rate has never been below 5 per 1000 a year in U.S. history either. A more realistic death rate from natural causes would be around 20. It was 20.3 in 1926, which according to almost all historians, was before Stalin started his repression, since he had only just assumed leadership in 1924.

So who is this responsible for this blatantly impossible assertion about Stalin? It was the son of a Trotskyist. Antonov-Ovseyenko was a Trotskyist who tried to use his military position to aid Trotsky take over the party in the USSR.

The bourgeois scholars in the West all clamored to support Anton Antonov-Ovseyenko's book. The endorsements on his book jacket read like a who's who of anti-Soviet propaganda. The book received an introduction and praise by Stephen F. Cohen, Princeton professor and darling of the social-democrats and revisionists for his sympathetic biography of N. Bukharin and political opposition to the Cold War. The other endorsers include democratic socialist Irving Howe, cold warrior and bourgeois scholar Robert Conquest, Robert G. Kaiser, Leonard Schapiro, Harrison Salisbury and of course the New Republic, which called it "the most important book to have come out of the Soviet experience since Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago." From this we can see how much credibility the mainstream discussion of Stalin deserves--none.

To cut through the distortions and lies about Stalin, read MIM Theory #6--"The Stalin Issue."

Notes:
1. Anton Antonov-Ovseyenko,The Time of Stalin: Portrait of a Tyranny, (NY: Harper & Row, 1981), p. 213.
2. Ger P. Van Den Berg, The Soviet System of Justice: Figures and Policy, (Boston: Martinus Nijhoff Publishers, 1985), p. 180.
3. Ibid., p. 181.

[Maxim Litvinov]

So, how many did Stalin kill then Ix?

The statistics in this article seem to leave the maximum at about 12 million [assuming a death rate of 10 per 1000 in the seven years from 1935-1941, and a maximum population decline of 25 million].

We should note, of course, that if the figure is from 1935-1941, then these would be deaths through repression, and wouldn't really include deaths from famine.

[Ixa]

So, how many did Stalin kill then Ix?

Why do you mean? I do not understand what you mean here.

We should note, of course, that if the figure is from 1935-1941, then these would be deaths through repression, and wouldn't really include deaths from famine.

If there is anything which the Russian research has proved beyond doubt, it is that Stalin was in no way responsible for the famine.

[Maxim Litvinov]

Sorry? The famine had something to do with all the other members of the Politburo perhaps, but just not Uncle Joe?

What annoys me with articles like the one you just quoted is they seem to spend the most time simply giving reasons why other historians are probably wrong. They generally don't try to advance a figure on how many died unnaturally during the 1930s themselves. Why? Because that means that they might actually have to admit that there were unnatural deaths, and they might have to delve into all the various reasons for and manifestations of such killings.

So, I'm asking: How many such unnatural deaths would you ascribe to the Great Terror? Simple enough question. Please try not to avoid it.

[Ixa]

Sorry? The famine had something to do with all the other members of the Politburo perhaps, but just not Uncle Joe?

Who said that? No one said that. I cannot find anyone who said that. Tell me who said that.

What annoys me with articles like the one you just quoted is they seem to spend the most time simply giving reasons why other historians are probably wrong.

They question certain historians' credibilities.

They generally don't try to advance a figure on how many died unnaturally during the 1930s themselves.

They are primarily critics.

Why? Because that means that they might actually have to admit that there were unnatural deaths, and they might have to delve into all the various reasons for and manifestations of such killings.

Pseudo-psychological speculation. And also, none of them deny that there were unnatural deaths, so far as I know. You are talking about people in your imagination.

So, I'm asking: How many such unnatural deaths would you ascribe to the Great Terror?

That is a loaded question. Also, by using the word 'Great Terror' you are using the claim to support the claim. We question the claim.

[Maxim Litvinov]

How about I give you some figures, and you disregard them. OK?

The 1932-33 famine killed about 2-3 million.
The 1930s saw about 4 million political arrests.
The 1930s saw about 750000 political executions.

Personally, I think that Stalin is indirectly responsible for a fair slab of these.

So, Ix - how many unnatural deaths in the 1930s according to your figures?

[glinert]

I too have feelings that Germans killd far more Russians than Stalin/

[Maxim Litvinov]

Yes, but the old "well, at least we're not as bad as the Nazis" line is really... well... it's hardly a particularly worthy accomplishment.

You know, I haven't killed as many people as Hitler so far in my life either...

[glinert]

I really think Hitler set quite bar to be reached in terms of killling and murdering. Stalin nice try but, well, you just may be inadequate.

I can imagine Gandhi, Hitler, Stalin, The Popes, all sitting in Hell and HItler making fun of Stalin on how he tried hard and just could not beat him.

[Russkie]

Hey! Stalin is a National Hero

Most people were starving to death under the Romanov Regime then when Stalin was sending people to the gulag, and the life expectancy rate was in the 20s.

[Todd D.]

Hey kids, I know you're cold and starving, your parents have been sent to gulags because they were enemies of the state, and your brother has been conscripted into the red army, but hey, other people were dying in their 20's a few years ago! Isn't this SO much better?

No.

[Russkie]

Stalin did not mass murder children. He put them into schools.

[Randomizer]

Where do the numbers of the number of deaths in these years come from? No statistical foreign organizations obviously worked in USSR at this time and I wouldn't trust the Soviet statisticians with providing the accurate numbers. Besides I don't think even the leadership knew or even cared about the number of people who died as a result of repressions.

On another matter much of the deaths suffered by Russia during the War can be indirectly attributed to Stalin's sheer incompetence in military matters, from "cleanings" in army command structure to no retreat policy.

[Maxim Litvinov]

Randomizer - you'd be wrong to so quickly discount the validity of Soviet statistics.

Of course, if you're talking about 'official industrial production' or similar, then there's some chance that someone was 'cooking the books' on the local level, and there might be discrepancies in statistics.

But what we're talking about are the detailed records of Soviet police organisations during this time. With files and details on those sent to the Gulags or shot. These statistics weren't for public consumption, but were collected assiduously in order that such organs could function properly.

If someone in the leadership really wanted a person 'killed', then it would almost certainly not happen (if at all) through some extra-judicial assassination. Rather, there would be details of their arrest, their interrogation, their trial and sentence.

So, my figures for instance are from RGASPI - which is the Russian State Archival for Socio-Political Research. It is probably the most thorough archive now open for research, and the documents in it are not tainted like much state-collected data, because they were never meant for public consumption. In short, our records on Soviet incarcerations are some of the best and most reliable ever collected.

Many of the comments in this thread have been ahistorically anti-Stalin. Again, to restate my initial point: people on both sides should - while recognising that history is much more than simple 'numbers' - be willing to examine and deal with figures like 'the number of repressions' in a rational way, without resorting to demonisation or name-calling.