[Ixa]

Pavel Trofimovich Morozov (November 14, 1918 - September 3, 1932), better known as Pavlik or Pavka, was a Soviet youth glorified by the Soviet Union as a martyr.

Born to poor peasants in Gerasimovka, a small village near Yekaterinburg, Morozov was a dedicated communist who led the Young Pioneers at his school, and a supporter of Stalin's collectivization of farms.

In 1932, at age 13, Morozov reported his father to the NKVD. Supposedly, Morozov's father had been forging documents, selling them to rich peasants. The elder Morozov was sentenced to ten years in a labor camp, and although his fate thereafter is unknown, it is thought that he did not long survive.

However, Pavlik's family did not take kindly to his activities: on September 3 of that year, his uncle, grandfather, grandmother and a cousin murdered him, along with his younger brother. They were rounded up by the NKVD and convicted of terrorism.

Thousands of telegrams from all over the Soviet Union urged the judge to show no mercy for Pavlik's killers.

The Soviet government declared Pavlik Morozov a glorious martyr who had been murdered by reactionaries. Statues of him were built, and numerous schools and youth groups were named in his honour. An opera and numerous songs were written about him.

Gerasimovka's school, which Morozov attended, became a shrine and children from all over the Soviet Union came on school excursions to visit it.

[Fernando]

I agree with you, Ixabert, I think the courage of Morozov was huge. He faced the death because of his ideals. A real hero!

Killing Pavel with the help of his family he showed us the way.

[The One.]

What a strange family the Morozov must have been.

And Pavel sure looks like one helluva sonofabitch.

[jaakko]

And Pavel sure looks like one helluva sonofabitch.

Maybe, but unlike his father, Pavel certainly was no bitch...

[Windir-L'etat c'est moi]

That show whats horrible systems, as the Stalinist system in Russia, can do to a family. The family is supposed to be one of the buldingstones in society.

That story made me sick to my stomach!

Windir

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Killing Pavel with the help of his family he showed us the way.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

At least Pavel didn't sell out!

[Seán Himmelb(L)au]

I can honestly say that this is the sort of thing that made me quit communism. Whatever happened to making people equal? You're virtually worshipping this guy, and what has he really done?

[jaakko]

You're virtually worshipping this guy, and what has he really done?

Where? Some comments have implied positive attitudes towards the boy, nothing more. By that logic, taking a negative stance on him would be demonising.

[Russkie]

Families cause divisions in classes.
True Communism would have no families only friendship.

Killing your family for the good of a nation is honorable.

[Windir-L'etat c'est moi]

Families cause divisions in classes.
True Communism would have no families only friendship.

Killing your family for the good of a nation is honorable.

Go see a shrink.

Windir

[Gothmog]

That show whats horrible systems, as the Stalinist system in Russia, can do to a family. The family is supposed to be one of the buldingstones in society.

That story made me sick to my stomach!

Windir

-This actually happens in the capitalist system too....people kill their relatives for money. One year ago, in my country, a girl killed his parents to take her inheritance. No one in the burgeoise press blamed capitalism.....

[glinert]

My question how many could actualy kill their fathers for political crimes?

[Fernando]

-This actually happens in the capitalist system too....people kill their relatives for money. One year ago, in my country, a girl killed his parents to take her inheritance. No one in the burgeoise press blamed capitalism.....

But I assume that Brazilian government didn't give her the Great Brazilian Cross and put her as an example.

[Ixa]

-This actually happens in the capitalist system too....people kill their relatives for money. One year ago, in my country, a girl killed his parents to take her inheritance. No one in the burgeoise press blamed capitalism.....

But I assume that Brazilian government didn't give her the Great Brazilian Cross and put her as an example.

You cannot compare the two. This boy was a hero, whereas the incident Gothmog is referring to is what I would call 'bad', but also a consequence of living in a capitalist system.

[Adrien]

The two cases are not of the same nature: the example you have evoked Gothmog would not make me blame Capitalism (it would be too easy), it is a crime that could have happened elsewhere, and is rather to justify through the madness of the woman, social pressure, bad education, family problems, or something else.

On the other hand Ixabert reported something that is also not the result of Socialism/Communism, but the result of a police state worth that of the Third Reich and other fascist States (even 40/44 France), a police state working on breaking families, human values, morals, etc. And that's why it is a disgusting story.

[Ixa]

The two cases are not of the same nature: the example you have evoked Gothmog would not make me blame Capitalism (it would be too easy), it is a crime that could have happened elsewhere, and is rather to justify through the madness of the woman, social pressure, bad education, family problems, or something else.

On the other hand Ixabert reported something that is also not the result of Socialism/Communism, but the result of a police state worth that of the Third Reich and other fascist States (even 40/44 France), a police state working on breaking families, human values, morals, etc. And that's why it is a disgusting story.

What is wrong about the story I reported?

[Adrien]

This is a judgement based on my personnal values, but this story is about a kid brainwashed enough to send his own father to the firing squad through denounciation, who is rewarded for that disgusting act, and who is made a hero after the rest of his family -driven wild by what he had done- killed him..

This shows the kind of moral, human, psychological disasters that a police state of that kind (be it from the USSR, the Third Reich or Vichy) can bring, the kind of atmosphere it creates, how it shatters the very bases of humanity to pieces.

[jaakko]

But the boy didn't send his father to the firing squad, he merely reported about his criminal activities. And forging documents and selling them to rich peasants is not petty criminal activity, but criminal rebel activity. If I was caught plotting or aiding those plotting against the state, I could get the harshest punishment of the criminal code. And in time of crisis that could very possibly mean death (although that is not used in times of social peace). I don't know how this father died, but it certainly wasn't the fault of the boy. Those who criticise the labour camp conditions should perhaps also question the morality of the boy's backward peasant family members who murdered him. And let's also remember that he was made a hero of the country only after his martyrdom, not when he reported about the subversive activities.

[Attila The Nun]

This Pavel should not be considered a hero. He's a monster in my eyes! He was so brainwashed that he would report his own father to the NKVD without a second thought. His father wasn't a good man either, but this Pavel seems heartless!

Frankly, this is what's wrong with a police-state, as Adrien says. It tears society apart!