The amazing Baron Ungern - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Inter-war period (1919-1938), Russian civil war (1917–1921) and other non World War topics (1914-1945).
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By Kiroff
#962833
I would like to have a discussion about Baron Roman Nicolaus von Ungern-Sternberg. If this becomes another "whine about Poland thread" or anything like that I will rename this one to such and start a new thread about Baron Ungern. I wrote the following from several sources.

Mongolians called him a God of War, Soviet historians called him the "Bloody Baron," But who was he?

Baron Roman Nicolaus von Ungern-Sternberg(Baron Ungern from now on) in Graz, Austria, December 29, 1885 to a Baltic-German family was born and grew up in Talinn, modern-day Estonia. In 1896, due to his mother's decision he goes to a SPB Fleet Corps, but did not become a seaman. During the war with Japan, he enlisted into an infantry division in the far east but did not get to fight. Upon return to SPB he enlisted into Pavlovsk Military Academy, and in 1908 enlisted into the Zabaykalye Cossack Division as a Standard Bearer.

Diring beginning of WWI he served in the 2nd Army, was wounded but evaded capture. He served up to a Cossack Captain of a hundred. In August 1917 together with ataman Semyonov he was send to Zebaykalye to form a volunteer corps.

During the Civil War he took part of the White movement commanding the Asiatic Cavalry Division. He became a Major General in 1918 and a Lieutenant General in 1919, and was awarded the St. George's Cross of the Special Manchurian Squadron.

==Here begins the story of his Epic Journey in Mongolia.

In 1918 ataman Semyonov awarded Ungern with Dauria as a feudal estate. He used it to form his Asiatic Division mainly of Mongols and Buryats. The goods taken as tariffs from passing trains were sent to Harbin to sell through trade agents, and buy supplies on the money made. Hearing that paper money will be made in Chita, he used tungsten from local mines to coin money and bought a Japanese coining machine.

After that in 1920 he took his troops to Outer Mongolia to take Urga(Now Ulan Bator) from the CRA(Chinese Republican Army). In the palace, the Mongolian spiritual leader Bogd Khan was guarded by the Chinese. After several bloody battles, and failing to take Urga, Ungern ordered his troops to start large campfires. The Chinese retreated, frightened that reinforcements came to take Urga and they would be overwhelmed.

February 26th the ceremony ocurred where Bogd Khan awarded Ungern with an honor originally available only to Genghis' blood relatives, "The Reviver of the Nation Great Bator, Commander-In-Chief" and was awarded Bogd Khan's personal ring with the Tibetian Swastika. After that he was called a Mahakala reincarnation by Dalai Lama XIII.

In several weeks, the CRA attacked again. Having only five thousand men and a deficit of bullets, Ungern used bullets made out of glass, made by engineer Lisovsky. In the largest battle on Mongolian territory in 200 years, of a total 15,000 men fighting, Ungern defeated the Chinese, who fled the battle. After a while, as his army could no longer be sustained, cossacks constantly stealing and drinking, it was time for a plan to attack Soviet Russia, and which started by the Amur.

After several battles with the Red Army, the baron was wounded, and his army surrounded. As a result his subordinates gave him over to the Soviets in exchange for a free exit to Manchuria. In Novosibirsk, he was tried publicly, his death warrant was signed by Lenin personally. The last session of the tribunal was on August 29th 1921 he was executed by firing squad later the same day.

---
Let's discuss this very controversial character.
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By Gletkin
#962848
Bullets made out of glass? :eek: THAT is something I'd like to see! Wouldn't they just be shattered by their own propellant charges?

Glass, of course, is used as shrapnel in today's IEDs. Nasty, as they don't show up on surgical X-rays. Some conventional bombs since the Vietnam War used plastic shrapnel for that same reason. This, no doubt, greatly contributed to the death toll of that war (2-3 million) because Vietnamese surgeons couldn't find these plastic shards in time.

Anyway, the Mad Baron. An utterly twisted paychopath. A firing squad was too good for him. Bravo to the Reds, though, for ridding the World of him.
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By Kiroff
#962861
I don't know how that worked, but it seemed to work very well. I doubt that the UN allows you to do that anymore though.

Anyway, the Mad Baron. An utterly twisted paychopath. A firing squad was too good for him. Bravo to the Reds, though, for ridding the World of him.


Well, that's what his defense lawyer said playing on the accusation, that instead of having him simply be killed, he should spend the rest of his life in prison, living with the horrors of the memories of his actions. The entire process was more of a propaganda technique to show the public that there is no alternative to Bolshevism by example.

He was accused of 3 articles: first, Acting in Japan's interests, to create a Central Asian nation, second, Armed struggle against the Soviets to restore the Romanov dynasty, and third, terror and atrocities. He agreed to all of them except the first one as he never pade any pacts with Japan.

Although the Mongolians did not seem to think so. Bogd Khan ordered services in all of Mongilia's Buddhist monasteries and temples upon hearing of his death.
By kami321
#963181
Ungern was surely one crazy motherfucker, surely one of the craziest White generals, if not THE craziest.
He wasn't that important on a general scheme of things though. He was widely seen as a subordinate of Kolchack, although he officially didn't take orders from Kolchack. His short rule in Mongolia didn't decide anything. And he surely wasn't a god of war, for his only real victory was against the Chinese.

it was time for a plan to attack Soviet Russia, and which started by the Amur.

ehh that isn't quite right, is it.. He didn't attack Reds, reds attacked him.
By Vasili Schmidt
#963208
Along with Wrangel, Ungern was the caricatural bourgeois German colonist of the Baltics who became a traitor to the Russian people. The likes of Wrangel and Ungern were proto-Nazis and had the exact same goal of wiping out the power of the workers councils.

He didn't attack Reds, reds attacked him.


He penetrated Soviet territory in May 1921. The Red Army appropriately reacted and the Mongolian people were liberated from this foreign tyrant.

The trial of Baron Ungern took place on September 15. During the hearing a long list of atrocities committed by Ungern and his underlings was revealed. On capturing Urgu (now Ulan-Bator) he ordered all the employees of Centrosoyuz and the Town Council to be shot. On his orders the peaceful inhabitants were robbed and killed and the town was burnt down. The trial brought to light Baron Ungerr.’s ties with the Chinese militarists (Chang Tso-lin) and Japanese interventionists. Baron Ungern was sentenced to death.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/w ... aug/26.htm
By kami321
#963213
He penetrated Soviet territory in May 1921.

Is there a source for this? It's just really strange why he would try to attack Reds at this point. I know he is crazy, but that would just be suicide crazy.
By Vasili Schmidt
#963224
В мае 1921 войска Азиатского корпуса — так стала теперь именоваться группа войск генерала Унгерна, — усиленные отрядами генералов Тирбаха («семеновцы») и Бакича («дутовцы», перешедшие в Монголию из Синдзяна (Китай) после убийства генерала Дутова), вторглись в Даурию вдоль реки Селенги. Однако общими усилиями Красной армии и Сухэ-Батора (Красная Монголия) войска Азиатского корпуса генерала Унгерна подверглись разгрому частями Красной армии, и его остатки бежали обратно в Монголию.

http://www.hronos.km.ru/biograf/ungern.html
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By Kiroff
#963695
It's a really complicated story. Basically, Semyonov and Ungern wanted to resurge and start their campaign in Russia. It was known that Bolsheviks were quite unpopular in 1921, as there were uprisings, such as the one in Kronstadt, unrest among workers and peasants, etc. So Ungern decided to unite with the emigrants, and start his Far East campaign to eventually to create a Central Asian state, and then de-revolutionize China and Russia, hoping thatthe peasants of Russia, unhappy with the reforms would join him.

He wasn't a white general though, he and Semyonov acted on their own. Neither were they proto-Nazis, as Semyonov had brigades of Jews in his army. The slogan of the time was "Against Jews and Comissars" though, which he decided to use.

Reasonable right wing source
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By Gletkin
#963991
kami321 wrote:Is there a source for this? It's just really strange why he would try to attack Reds at this point. I know he is crazy, but that would just be suicide crazy.

According to this book I read, I think it's entitled Setting the East Ablaze, Ungern consulted a fortune teller who told him that he only had X number of days to resurrect the empire of Genghis Khan (of which Ungern believed he was a re-incarnation of). So he tried to schedule his entire campaign within this time period! :eek:

Yeah. Like everyone said: "The Mad Baron"!

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