[Mercutio]

About 20,000 years ago ice covered more land so the water level was lower creating islands to leapfrog from Europe to America. Stone points dating to around that time have been found here, identical to the ones being used in areas of France. And DNA has proven migrations came from Europe and Asia.

[Falx]

And DNA has proven migrations came from Europe and Asia.

No it hasn't, read the link I provided.

Did the Vikings have those?

They crossed the Atlantic by Greenland, Iceland and Newfound land. Look at an Atlas and see the problems with the Egyptians doing that.

1.Well what stopped them from going into the Indian ocean and then to the Pacific?

And from going to the moon? All they had to do was jump up mountains higher and higher. Same logic applies here.

2.Again I said it was possible for both civilazations to cross the oceans.

And it was possible that they flew there, at any rate there is no genetic evidence of migration and trade goods only prove that someone got there and traded something back. As you know just because there are BMW's in Israel doesn't mean its a German colony. Trade of goods without migration or people knowing where they come from is much more common than exploration, ie the silk road.

[Oxymoron]

They crossed the Atlantic by Greenland, Iceland and Newfound land. Look at an Atlas and see the problems with the Egyptians doing that.

Nice deflection of topic.

And from going to the moon? All they had to do was jump up mountains higher and higher. Same logic applies here.

That is not my logic since going to the moon on a sea ship is impossible while going into the Indian Ocean resupplying and proceding to the Pacific ocean and then to South America is very much possible. Falx you are smarter then this type of kindergarden debate style you are using.

And it was possible that they flew there,

Really did they have planes?

at any rate there is no genetic evidence of migration and trade goods only prove that someone got there and traded something back.

So how did a South American product get to Egypt? I guess they used the teleporter.

As you know just because there are BMW's in Israel doesn't mean its a German colony

.

How is that even addressing how a Product got to Egypt from South America when you said that niether civilazation had the means to come into contact with one another.

Trade of goods without migration or people knowing where they come from is much more common than exploration, ie the silk road.

Please explain that more.

[Mercutio]

No it hasn't, read the link I provided.

Try this link:

The discovery of the spear in Virginia proved they arrived, but after that, all evidence of the Solutreans disappears. Did they voyage deeper into the New World, or did they die out? Recent DNA studies of the Ojibwe First Nation of central Ontario reveals that they are descended from European ancestry, not the Asian migration through Russia and Alaska as previously thought.

http://ctvmedia.ca/discovery/releases/r ... &yyyy=2005

[Muslim]

Thats is facinating, I wouldnt be suprised if they discovered a very advanced civlization in that area that rivaled Egypt.

The Egyptian pyramids are 4500 years old. The Egyptian civilization itself is more than 7000 years old.

[Oxymoron]

The Egyptian pyramids are 4500 years old. The Egyptian civilization itself is more than 7000 years old.

Please source that 7000 figure.

Please note that this is just the beginging of excavations in that area, and from what I have seen the structure seems very advanced thus the civilazation that built it was started much earlier.

[Falx]

Nice deflection of topic.

It isn't, the Vikings had the capability to stay seaworthy for a very long time, the coast of Greenland, Iceland and Newfound land from Norway were each no more than 5 days travel from one another, easily done during summer when the weather wasn't bad. Compare that with the three months it took Columbus to cross the Atlantic from Spain.

That is not my logic since going to the moon on a sea ship is impossible while going into the Indian Ocean resupplying and proceding to the Pacific ocean and then to South America is very much possible. Falx you are smarter then this type of kindergarden debate style you are using.

Because as we all know the Indians at the time were peace loving people. The problem with that is the distances involved and the way the Egyptians practised seafaring, they never left the coast from their sight. The way to go from Egypt to Polynesia is by the Red Sea, Arabia, Persia, India, Burma and Malaya, only then would the real travel beguin. This is a voyage that took the Portuguese in the 15th century over 6 months to complete. As far as anything goes it was impossible to travel from Egypt to America by Polynesia in ancient times.

Really did they have planes?

About as many as they had ocean going ships.

So how did a South American product get to Egypt? I guess they used the teleporter. ...[How is that even addressing how a Product got to Egypt from South America when you said that niether civilazation had the means to come into contact with one another. ...
Please explain that more.

Its quite simple really, the products move independent of the culture that produced them. If you think about it for a second do you get your BMW's today because Germans have a colony in Israel that they send their products to or because someone else buys it, resells it, and so on until it finally reaches you. The same was true for ancient trade. It is possible and, indeed likely, that the most western Polynesia traded with the Americas, it would be extremely likely that those goods were then passed on along the trade routes of antiquity all the way to Egypt as extreme luxury goods. It does not suggest that the Egyptians got to America any more than Silk suggesting the Chinese had colonies in Europe. Both of which goods were situated half a world away and occurred no where else.

Try this link:

I am linking you to a peer reviewed paper on the subject, you are linking me to the discovery channel which cites papers that mine has refuted. Use logic and figure out which source is superior.

[Muslim]

Please source that 7000 figure.

The first unified government that ruled all of Egypt dates back to circa 3150 BC, more than 5000 years ago, when Menes unified Upper and Lower Egypt into one centralized kingdom. But I don't think we should regard that unified government as the starting point of the Egyptian civilization, since it was preceded by several "smaller civilizations". Some archaeology books, like this one, state that signs of social complexity were evident in Egypt by 5500 BC. Of course, we don't expect such "social complexity" to be something so great, but it gives an estimate of when civilization started to get born in Egypt.

[Mercutio]

Use logic and figure out which source is superior.

DNA is DNA and there's the stone point and other evidence all of which is is reearched by the people at Discovery. But if you choose to not believe something because your back is against the wall, it's no hair off my nuts.

[Falx]

DNA is DNA and there's the stone point and other evidence all of which is is reearched by the people at Discovery.

DNA is DNA and for some reason I suspect you haven't got the first clue what it is you're talking about as the "genetic link to Europe" is only found in haplogroup X, one of five, and the paper explains how it arose from Asian populations in which it had a small concentration.

Here we show, by using 86 complete mitochondrial genomes, that all Native American haplogroups, including haplogroup X, were part of a single founding population, thereby refuting multiple-migration models. A detailed demographic history of the mtDNA sequences estimated with a Bayesian coalescent method indicates a complex model for the peopling of the Americas, in which the initial differentiation from Asian populations ended with a moderate bottleneck in Beringia during the last glacial maximum (LGM), around not, vert, similar23,000 to not, vert, similar19,000 years ago. Toward the end of the LGM, a strong population expansion started not, vert, similar18,000 and finished not, vert, similar15,000 years ago. These results support a pre-Clovis occupation of the New World, suggesting a rapid settlement of the continent along a Pacific coastal route.

See a dictionary about the big words you have trouble understanding.

But if you choose to not believe something because
your back is against the wall, it's no hair off my nuts.

Believe whatever nonsense you like, but don't pretend it is scientifically valid. And honestly using the the discovery channel as a source in scientific is like saying "Sponge bob square pants did it so it must be true".

[Oxymoron]

Its quite simple really, the products move independent of the culture that produced them. If you think about it for a second do you get your BMW's today because Germans have a colony in Israel that they send their products to or because someone else buys it, resells it, and so on until it finally reaches you. The same was true for ancient trade. It is possible and, indeed likely, that the most western Polynesia traded with the Americas, it would be extremely likely that those goods were then passed on along the trade routes of antiquity all the way to Egypt as extreme luxury goods. It does not suggest that the Egyptians got to America any more than Silk suggesting the Chinese had colonies in Europe. Both of which goods were situated half a world away and occurred no where else.

So Polynesians traded with the Chinese, who moved the goods over the still non existant silk road, to Egypt? You are coming up with a interesting argument, again it is possible, but it in no way defeats the possibility of Ocean going boats reaching each other for direct trade, since it was actually proven to be possible. We are talking about possibilties and with out further discoveries that is all we can do at this stage.

[Falx]

So Polynesians traded with the Chinese, who moved the goods over the still non existant silk road, to Egypt? You are coming up with a interesting argument, again it is possible, but it in no way defeats the possibility of Ocean going boats reaching each other for direct trade, since it was actually proven to be possible. We are talking about possibilties and with out further discoveries that is all we can do at this stage.

No, they most likely traded with the Indians, from India, who traded them with the middle east from where they passed to Egypt. Also you are talking about royalty here, they have always gotten whatever exotic goods they wanted, that was the whole point of low volume high value trade. As for the possible you have probabilities of what can happen, what you are saying would be evaluated by anyone in the field as less than one in a thousand chance, what I am suggesting only pushes for the link between Polynesia and America, all the other trade routes were open at the time.