Did the Biblical Exodus Happen? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By babilonian
#13059709
Fuck everybody we are done kissing ass to survive, it didn't work to well. So if Jews are unpopular but we survive as a people thats fine by me. There is nothing anyone can do at this stage to get rid of us, so better get used to it sonny.


No That is not my religion.
:?:

Sorry, but I thought you were Jewish as I recall from your previous posts. Also I believe you mentioned once that your grand parents are from the caucuses area. Like I said, you don't have to take it personal, its just history.

Mind telling me what other ethnic groups left Egypt with the Hebrews? And Why?

Please elaborate what this Jewish thinking is?

To pick and choose whatever you like whenever you like. Its either you're a Jew or NOT. Make up your mind. There is no shame in either. Its a matter of choice and you're an adult, married and probably have or will have kids. What are you going to tell them? They are Jews. Are you going to preach something you don't believe in?
This is religious history we are talking about here. One cannot believe in a religion and picks and chooses what to believe and what not to believe.
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By Oxymoron
#13059833
Sorry, but I thought you were Jewish as I recall from your previous posts. Also I believe you mentioned once that your grand parents are from the caucuses area. Like I said, you don't have to take it personal, its just history.


I am Jewish, but dont follow Judaism. My Grandparents are from Ukraine. I am not taking anything personally.

Mind telling me what other ethnic groups left Egypt with the Hebrews? And Why?


Egyptians, and Caanites.


To pick and choose whatever you like whenever you like. Its either you're a Jew or NOT. Make up your mind.


Huh? Is there a particular way Jews think that is different the "regular" humans?

There is no shame in either. Its a matter of choice and you're an adult, married and probably have or will have kids. What are you going to tell them? They are Jews. Are you going to preach something you don't believe in?


What on earth are you talking about?

This is religious history we are talking about here. One cannot believe in a religion and picks and chooses what to believe and what not to believe.


Again I dont believe in Judaism what cant you understand about that?
By babilonian
#13060877
I am Jewish, but dont follow Judaism


Again I dont believe in Judaism what cant you understand about that?


you don't have to answer twice to your own post. But mind telling me what exactly you mean by the first statement?

Egyptians, and Caanites.


Why? Why would Egyptians and Cannites leave with Moses? Especially that even Jews were reluctant to leave with him in the first place and turned against him very soon after. Several times.
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By Oxymoron
#13061003
you don't have to answer twice to your own post. But mind telling me what exactly you mean by the first statement?


Meaning I am ethnically Jewish, but dont follow the religion of Judaism.


Why? Why would Egyptians and Cannites leave with Moses? Especially that even Jews were reluctant to leave with him in the first place and turned against him very soon after. Several times.


Same reason some British people left to the new world. New opportunity.
By ninurta
#13074955
I believe that the biblical exodus, until evidence proves otherwise, never happened. It is as fictional as the birth story of moses, which follows the same story of the birth of Sargon the great, Romulus and Remus and others.
By Watermoon
#13074966
I believe that the biblical exodus, until evidence proves otherwise, never happened.

I thought it was true as Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. :roll:
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By Godstud
#13075114
Actually, there's been evidence showing that it's just not mythical but was a natural exodus, for whatever reasons, and then a series of invasions to take land in what is now Israel.
The bible is a rough history book for the people of that time and archaeologists are still investigating it. Not so for the Iliad :)
By ninurta
#13088575
Godstud wrote:Actually, there's been evidence showing that it's just not mythical but was a natural exodus, for whatever reasons, and then a series of invasions to take land in what is now Israel.

New Kingdom Pharoahs yeah, none where Moses, one was a monotheist. Akhenaton by the way was not very efficient at ruling canaan. especially against the habiru, one of which lied to his face and got away with it.

The bible is a rough history book for the people of that time and archaeologists are still investigating it. Not so for the Iliad :)

There is more than one source of information for the Iliad, as for its historicity, its as good as the exodus, as far as I am concerned. Though since they found Troy, there may be some history to it. Though the greeks weren't the best when it came to the history, they were pretty reliable for the most part. Though the Iliad isn't history, its an epic legend.
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By Arthur2sheds_Jackson
#13097965
If Moses existed he must have been the biggest twat in ancient times.
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By Potemkin
#13097970
If Moses existed he must have been the biggest twat in ancient times.

How so? :eh:
By ninurta
#13098025
If Moses did exist, he was quite the magician, as he did all that without a trace, and even wiped egyptian records clean of his trail :lol:
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By Kapanda
#13098033
The only source is the old testament and that 'source' is pretty suspect so I'll go with a No.

Have you read the Old Testament? I have been told that literature scholars cannot see how that text was a fabrication. It may have had fantasies, constructs of the mind in it, but the richness of the text and the detailed account of events are better than what you would hear in a court. That argument has been made by literature academics - not the way I pose it, but still saying that the text is written in a way that does not indicate pure fantasy.

How so?

Under Moses and Joshua, the Israelis exterminated complete cities and communities, by the word of the Bible, leaving no man, woman, elderly or children alive.
By ninurta
#13098038
Kapanda wrote: Have you read the Old Testament? I have been told that literature scholars cannot see how that text was a fabrication. It may have had fantasies, constructs of the mind in it, but the richness of the text and the detailed account of events are better than what you would hear in a court. That argument has been made by literature academics - not the way I pose it, but still saying that the text is written in a way that does not indicate pure fantasy.

I've read it in english, old english, jewish version in english and in hebrew. I have read it enough to know how many times it contradicts itself, and how it couldn't have been written by Moses, and how it was a combination of texts put together. As for it being more detailed than a court case would be? Which part? The parts the sound like the Ipuwer Manuscript? the part that sounds like the birth legend of Sargon? The fall of Jericho that happened so many other times but the time the book of Joshua describes? O and the destruction of the cities of canaan is in Joshua and not the Torah/Pentateuch.

Or what stories? Though they seem like poetic retellings of borrowed stories, none seem more detailed then court cases, maybe I missed part.

"How so?"
Under Moses and Joshua, the Israelis exterminated complete cities and communities, by the word of the Bible, leaving no man, woman, elderly or children alive.

O okay, thought this was just about the exodus. Though none of those cities mentioned were destroyed at the same time, none of it is accurate to the date Moses allegedly lived. All of the book of Joshua, and most books of the bible are a combination of books thrown together.
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By Kapanda
#13098044
I've read it in english, old english, jewish version in english and in hebrew. I have read it enough to know how many times it contradicts itself, and how it couldn't have been written by Moses, and how it was a combination of texts put together. As for it being more detailed than a court case would be? Which part? The parts the sound like the Ipuwer Manuscript? the part that sounds like the birth legend of Sargon? The fall of Jericho that happened so many other times but the time the book of Joshua describes? O and the destruction of the cities of canaan is in Joshua and not the Torah/Pentateuch.

Or what stories? Though they seem like poetic retellings of borrowed stories, none seem more detailed then court cases, maybe I missed part.

I'd have to go back to refer to a particular part. Right now I'm only at around the end of 1 Kings, so I have only read about 1/5 of the old testament. In general, this is the impression I have of the Old Testament. But one that comes to mind right now is the story of David. There are many points that go into significant detail of the situation.

O okay, thought this was just about the exodus. Though none of those cities mentioned were destroyed at the same time, none of it is accurate to the date Moses allegedly lived. All of the book of Joshua, and most books of the bible are a combination of books thrown together.

Yea that was just a remark on why someone might not be very fond of Moses.
By ninurta
#13098050
It isn't that an exodus and a canaan invasion didn't happen in my view, its that I have nothing to suggest it did and the tanakh (I've read all of it) and the Bible (I've read all of that too) were written after Moses and much of it after the fall of Israel and Judah.

Look at Genesis, it couldn't have been written by Moses, Ur of the chaldees? Chaldea was babylonia after the Assyrian invasion. that would mean that Israel had been gone and Judah was soon to be invaded.

And there is evidence that much of the bible was written at that time. Besides some of the kings being archaeologically proven to have existed, there is an account of the failed attempt to invade jerusalem that agrees with the Assyrian sources very well.
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By Potemkin
#13098058
Under Moses and Joshua, the Israelis exterminated complete cities and communities, by the word of the Bible, leaving no man, woman, elderly or children alive.

Everybody was doing stuff like that in the ancient world. We think of Alexander the Great as a noble hero, but when he captured the city of Tyre after a siege, he crucified every surviving adult male - all 2000 of them - on the beach and sold all the women and children into slavery. War leaders were hardcore back in those days. :hmm:
By ninurta
#13098066
Potemkin wrote: Everybody was doing stuff like that in the ancient world. We think of Alexander the Great as a noble hero, but when he captured the city of Tyre after a siege, he crucified every surviving adult male - all 2000 of them - on the beach and sold all the women and children into slavery. War leaders were hardcore back in those days. :hmm:

No one said it was a good thing Alexander did it either, though I must say, it makes it worse when a "perfect" god does it because shouldn't know better? That makes the liberals better than he is.
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By Potemkin
#13098109
No one said it was a good thing Alexander did it either, though I must say, it makes it worse when a "perfect" god does it because shouldn't know better? That makes the liberals better than he is.

What are you talking about? :?:
By ninurta
#13098125
Potemkin wrote:What are you talking about? :?:


That's just what happens in war, people kill people. It's not that anyone is saying it's right, it just happens. And in ancient times, they were often far meaner to the losers than they are today.
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By Potemkin
#13098128
Yeah, but why mention liberals? Liberals, in the modern American sense, didn't exist back then. :eh:

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