[Muslim]

ALEXANDER'S RACIAL UNITY - DOOMED TO FAILURE

Despite having easily overcome all the mixed race peoples of the Middle and Near East, Alexander himself publicly declared himself to be in favor of further racial integration.

To this end he was an ardent exponent of ensuring the compliance of invaded nations by issuing orders that his Macedonian occupiers be integrated with the subject peoples. He ordered for example that all his generals to take wives from the conquered peoples, most of whom were racial mixtures of Semites, Arabics, Negroids and original Whites.

Alexander himself took a non-White wife, a Persian princess who was of mixed race. He also started dressing like the peoples he had conquered, and in 324 BC at a city called Susa he personally officiated at an arranged mass wedding of 9,000 of his senior army officers to Middle Eastern wives - the famous "marriage of East and West" meant to symbolize the new racial unity he was hoping to create.

Upon Alexander's early death, virtually all of his senior officers who had been forced into these multiracial marriages renounced their imposed wives and set up pure White Macedonian ruling classes in the areas which had been placed under their control.

What do you think of that dream? Do you share it?

Given the status of racism on the forum, I've removed the limit to an explicitly racist site - SD

[Wolfman]

I don't know if it was nessicarily about race, as there was no real concept of being 'Greek' let alone being 'White'. The issue for Alexander seemed to be more along the lines of 'it's easier to occupy a country if we integrate into there culture'

[Paradigm]

First of all, I wouldn't trust a website like that to provide a fair, objective telling of history. But to answer the question, no. I don't share the dream of making everyone a single mixed race, though I would have no problem with that happening either. Sometimes I suspect it will happen anyway.

[Order]

I don't know if it was nessicarily about race, as there was no real concept of being 'Greek' let alone being 'White'. The issue for Alexander seemed to be more along the lines of 'it's easier to occupy a country if we integrate into there culture'

There was a Greek indentity, mainly defined through language.
Concerning Alexander's dream, while somewhat appalling for his comrades, it was quite normal in the context of the Persian monarchy which had always prided itself on its "multiculturalism".

[Nattering Nabob]

There was a Greek indentity, mainly defined through language.

Language, religion, and the games in Olympia...only "Greeks" could take part in the games..."others not allowed thank you very much"...

[Order]

Language, religion, and the games in Olympia...only "Greeks" could take part in the games..."others not allowed thank you very much"...

Of course there were other things, I was just saying language is the one thing Greeks seem to have put most emphasis on. (as opposed to, for example, skin colour or other markers of identity we use today)

[Potemkin]

Despite having easily overcome all the mixed race peoples of the Middle and Near East

I wouldn't describe his conquest of the Persian Empire as 'easy' - his military campaigns were so physically and mentally demanding that they shattered his physical health and upset the balance of his mind. His behaviour became increasingly erratic towards the end of his life, and he died at the early age of only 33.

Alexander himself publicly declared himself to be in favor of further racial integration.

No, he didn't. He publicly declared himself to be in favour of further cultural integration. The Greeks of course believed their own culture to be superior to all others, and were appalled at the idea of acknowledging that Persian culture was the equal of their own. Racism in the modern sense did not exist then.

[redcarpet]

He was another idealist fool on international relations. I'm reminded of Tony Blair, funny enough

[Ashoka]

I'd be interested to know if the notion of a "pure white" race existed back when Alexander was messing around in the Eastern world. It seems that these racial lines are always drawn purely to create privilege where there was none before. I am sure people where aware of racial differences, but was it like the formative years of the U.S, and the "color line" was created by the landed elite to protect their stuff from the poor people.

[Order]

I'd be interested to know if the notion of a "pure white" race existed back when Alexander was messing around in the Eastern world. It seems that these racial lines are always drawn purely to create privilege where there was none before. I am sure people where aware of racial differences, but was it like the formative years of the U.S, and the "color line" was created by the landed elite to protect their stuff from the poor people.

The Greeks certainly did not see themselves as part of a larger "white" race if it is that what you ask. They had as much contempt for the Barbarians in the north as for those in the south.

[QatzelOk]

First of all, I wouldn't trust a website like that to provide a fair, objective telling of history.

Well, we've all grown up on Rich History, so what difference does it make?

Perhaps you don't like whites?

Personally, I admire both Alexander's gayness and his lack of ethnocentrism.

[MB.]

Upon Alexander's early death, virtually all of his senior officers who had been forced into these multiracial marriages renounced their imposed wives and set up pure White Macedonian ruling classes in the areas which had been placed under their control.

Did this happen? Does anyone know?

[Plaro]

It seems that these racial lines are always drawn purely to create privilege where there was none before.

There was a privileged aristocracy in Persian Empire prior to Greek invasion.

No, I personally do not think the concept of race did exist back then, definitely they could tell a Greek from a Persian or Egyptian, or Thracian but they did not think in terms of race. Where are you getting your information thinking

Did this happen? Does anyone know?

I do not know if ever they were forced to marry foreigners, or if ever they divorced their wifes, never heard or read of anything like this. I know the generals not Macedon, but mostly Greek, did divide the land and ruled as the ruling class even up until Arab invasion all of the ruling class of Egypt was Greek, for example.

He publicly declared himself to be in favour of further cultural integration.

There was no cultural integration, Greek went on the line of how Europeans proceeded with their colonization, they build numerous separate cities (famous one being Alexandria) and lived separately in them, while spreading their Hellenistic culture one the petulance they have conquered. Nothing like a multicultural fairy land.

[Panagiotis-Hector]

No, I personally do not think the concept of race did exist back then, definitely they could tell a Greek from a Persian or Egyptian, or Thracian but they did not think in terms of race. Where are you getting your information thinking

No, you're right there wasn't a racial concept, it was mostly about culture and language.If someone who wasn't Greek,but had adopted the Greek culture, he was considered a almost equal to Greeks.Certainly he couldn't participate in the Olympic Games, he could even under some circumstances talk to the Agora and share his opinion about city matters.Besides foreigners never suffered any racism acts, after all one of the names of Zeus was, in translation, the hospital.And Greeks have never been, as a rule, racists (ancient or modern), since someone is not hostile towards them, they are also not.

About the Thracians, the Greeks and the Thracians are not different nations.Thratians where like Macedonians, like Cretans, like Spartans, like Athens and so....You shouldn't say it like they where different, because some people might misunderstand this.

[noemon]

Panagiotis, the Thracians according to ancient Greek authors were not Greeks, they were "barbarians" and despite the fact that the term "barbarian" has been used quite often and indeed was initially used by Greeks to refer to other Greek(city-states or persons within the same city in a degrading manner under special circumstances), the case of the Thracians is different, they were "barbarians", that is foreigners for Herodotos and many others, foreigners like the Persians were.

Certainly there was for many ancient Greeks a special feeling towards Thracians since Orpheus(the Thracian King) is indeed worshipped and the Kabeiri mysteries of Samothrace where many Greeks attended were performed in the Thracian tongue according to Herodotos. In addition many Thracian cities and the entire of Thrace was subject to heavy Hellenization, which resulted to it being renamed to Macedonia by the Romans.

Also the Greeks had a concept of "racism", which was cultural and mostly lingual in its form, but there was a form of racism and a heavy one for that matter.

[Kman]

What do you think of that dream? Do you share it?

No and his stupidity is probably the reason why all the land he conquered was quickly retaken after his death.

[noemon]

Retaken by who? His land was taken off the Greeks, 400 years after his death. And that was not because of his "stupidity", but because the Greeks are unable to cooperate with each other, it is an ancient "curse" that can be seen until today in modern Greeks(see Maniots against Kapodistrias for example).

Alexander's policy of establishing new cities instead of recolonizing the already existing ones, and by that establishing an entirely new network of trade and cultural cities(the hundrends Alexandrias) is what made Hellenism the most widely adopted culture in the globe. It is what made Greek the language that has embellished the majority of languages in the world. It is what produced the fabulous Indo-Greek kingdoms where the first Buddhist art was shaped. It is what kept the Greeks and hence Hellenic culture alive in foreign lands even after the destruction of the Greek political orders in Asia. The cultural, ethnic and economic orders were maintained exactly because of his "dream" to place Ellines everywhere.

[Ter]

He ordered for example that all his generals to take wives from the conquered peoples, most of whom were racial mixtures of Semites, Arabics, Negroids and original Whites.

I take it those wives were chosen, did not necessarily have a say in this ?

How they must have fucked in those days !

Ter

[Quantum]

To this end he was an ardent exponent of ensuring the compliance of invaded nations by issuing orders that his Macedonian occupiers be integrated with the subject peoples. He ordered for example that all his generals to take wives from the conquered peoples, most of whom were racial mixtures of Semites, Arabics, Negroids and original Whites.

This link is ignorant of the fact that Arabs are Semites. Either that, or they meant Jews specifically which is just as ignorant. I doubt there was a concept of 'racial purity' in those days and his dream is less problematic than today, where there would be an enormous objection by people around the world.

[Potemkin]

Actually, the Persians were (and are) Aryans rather than Semites. I believe Alexander held a ceremony in which hundreds of his officers married Persian brides - the Macedonian elite were being wedded to the Persian elite, who were Aryan just as the Macedonians were.