Cave Art: Prehistoric Teen Graffiti? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#844679
March 31, 2006— Testosterone-fueled boys created most prehistoric cave art, according to a recently published book by one of the world's leading authorities on cave art.

The theory contradicts the idea that adult, tribal shaman spiritual leaders and healers produced virtually all cave art.

It also explains why many of the images drawn in caves during the Pleistocene, between 10,000 and 35,000 years ago, somewhat mirror today's artwork and graffiti that are produced by adolescent males.

"Today, boys draw the testosterone subjects of a hot automobile, fighter jet, Jedi armor, sports, direct missile hit, etc.— all of the things they associate with the Adrenalin of success," said R. Dale Guthrie, author of "The Nature of Paleolithic Art."

Guthrie, who is a professor emeritus in the Institute of Arctic Biology at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, added, "I think the full larder (of) success of the excitement and danger of killing a giant bison or auroch in the Pleistocene was the equivalent of the testosterone art today."

He explained to Discovery News that many of the cave art images of animals are rather graphic, showing, for example, speared animals with blood pouring out of their mouths and noses.

Hunting and animals were not the only things on the cave artists' minds. Guthrie has also noticed that males were drawn sort of like a Ken Barbie doll, with no defined sexual parts save for a simple line designating the penis. Few men were even represented, but the images of women in caves tell a different story.

"Female images dominate and are nude, almost every one full-figured above and below," said Guthrie. "Unlike the other animals, the sculpted, engraved and painted human females and female parts are sometimes done schematically, distilling and inflating the primary and secondary sex characters."

Guthrie also determined that several cave art images are incomplete, overlapping, brief and rudimentary, as though people who were still learning how to draw created them.

This type of sketching dominates cave walls, which also display a handful of works that appear to have been drawn by well-practiced artists, who probably were adults.

Perhaps the most convincing piece of evidence for the new theory consists of 200 handprints that were left in the caves next to the art. These prints were produced by individuals who chewed ochre, held up a hand, and then spit the colorful orange-yellow spew all over the hand, leaving a wall imprint.

Guthrie analyzed the handprints and then compared the results with earlier research on male and female hands. The hand lengths, palm widths and the finger widths and lengths mostly match hands that would have belonged to boys aged nine to 17.

Some teen female handprints were identified in the caves, but young male prints were found more often.

Other handprints resulting unintentionally from people leaning against muddy cave walls, as well as footprints, also suggest that young boys were creating the cave art, according to Guthrie.

Paul Martin, professor of quaternary biogeography at the University of Arizona, told Discovery News that he is inclined to agree with the new theory and findings.

"(Guthrie) has an extraordinary knowledge of wild animal ecology globally, and especially in the Northern Hemisphere," Martin said. "In addition, he brings detailed knowledge of late Pleistocene fossils to his study of cave art. Finally, like many zoologists, especially those with children of their own, he is an astute observer of human behavior."

Martin added, "If he finds that much cave art reflects teenage or preteen preoccupations, I am prepared to believe him."

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20 ... t_arc.html
User avatar
By The Immortal Goon
#844974
That's interesting. I've often watched those shows on Discovery channel where someone is trying to explain the drawings in a sipritual way and thought that it sounded like they were just making shit up as they went along.

-TIG :rockon:
By Schrödinger's Kitty
#844999
I think this is very insightful and a great idea.

1. Hand prints mostly from males and the hand is a size of a boy's hand.
2. A lot of drawings mostly of hunting, death and gore - something the boys would just become exposed to. They are drawing their hunts to boast their experience.
3. Images of women are very sexual in nature (not spiritual) and look like what a boy would draw when going through puberty.
User avatar
By Lokakyy
#845138
I don't know. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but:

2. A lot of drawings mostly of hunting, death and gore - something the boys would just become exposed to. They are drawing their hunts to boast their experience.
3. Images of women are very sexual in nature (not spiritual) and look like what a boy would draw when going through puberty.


2. Hunting and gore were also an important livelihood of the hunter-gatherer tribes. The most prevalent theme in the cave paintings are animals that are quite accurately rendered, while human figures are very schematic in nature. Some hunter scenes do have female characters, that are recognizable only by their very schematic breasts - I have seen them and they are barely nothing else but stick figures with a horizontal line symbolising the breasts.

It might be jumping to conclusions to adapt modern standards of what is cruel to prehistoric cultures. After all, violence and especially animal gore was daily life (or to be more accurate, something to be celebrated, a succesful hunt) to prehistoric tribes. It is often noted (for example by Norbert Elias) how older civilisations seem "juvenile" to those more "civilised" and this could easily be the case. Maybe prehistoric culture, in whole, was more "preteen" than the following ones?

3. The sexual reproducement rite was (as far it is known) the most important element of the pre-historic spirituality. Female fertility is glorified to the point where the pictures are obviously fertility gods. I don't think that erotic sculpture (and painting) and sexuality is separable in pre-historic sculpture. After all, this same applies to the Mesopotamian and Cretean art with heavily emphasized female (fertile) breasts and genitalia.

For example the artistic renditions of female goddesses discovered from the more developed culture in Catal Huyuk shows the very same large breasted form, with obviously pregnant belly and almost grossly exaggerated labia and they seem far more like professional works of art (or more accurately, cult imagery) than some preteen pottery-exercise.

From the article:
Guthrie also determined that several cave art images are incomplete, overlapping, brief and rudimentary, as though people who were still learning how to draw created them.


This could also easily be because the painting is theorised to be a ritualistic occasion.

Interesting theory, nonetheless, but the evidence seems rather conflicting - while the thing about the hands seems convincing (assuming that he did it right, and I have no reason not to believe it), at least the article ignores some major former theories and explanations that even me, who grinned in pain when reading through that period in art history, can at least point out as unanswered.

It seems somehow conflicting to argue that the majority of art created during prehistoric era were painted by preteens - then why did the adult population produce so little? Why the paintings are quite similar in style everywhere? And most importantly, why many of the paintings are located in a place where they could not be seen without illumination and often in places that were difficult - or even dangerous - to reach?

It is of course true that the actual theory made by that professor is far more complex than this popularised article suggests, so thinking it critically, from the laymans position, is of course likely to be inaccurate.
User avatar
By Lokakyy
#845147
How do you explain the hands? That is the best evidence.


I can't "explain" it as I'm not an expert on the field. Like I said, it sounds convincing yes.

If you want me to get speculative and draw something out of my hat (to forcibly debunk the theory), an initiation rite, maybe? Maybe they were tied to reaching certain age (reaching sexual maturity, or something)?

Noone, as far as I know, has never figured out why these hand paintings exist. As a curious note, they also have marks of mutilation (fingers missing) that could point to the ritualistic initiation.
By Schrödinger's Kitty
#845469
Noone, as far as I know, has never figured out why these hand paintings exist.


I don't think one can answer why. Not when refering to pre-historical times. We have no basis on which to understand the cutlure or the people. It is obvious speculation. I don't think missing fingers could tell one the rituals. Without further evidence (or overwelming presence of missing fingers) I would assume they were a result of injury. As of an initiation, that is a good guess, but then why are most hands male? If it was for males only, then why are some female? And if we are talking of a cultural practice which spanned generations, there would be more hands than what was cited in the article (200).
User avatar
By Lokakyy
#845494
I don't think one can answer why. Not when refering to pre-historical times. We have no basis on which to understand the cutlure or the people. It is obvious speculation.


Indeed, that is always the case with pre-history. Educated guesses or nothing at all.

I don't think missing fingers could tell one the rituals. Without further evidence (or overwelming presence of missing fingers) I would assume they were a result of injury.


The article in National Geographic I read about the subject (the cave was in Australia or something) had always the same finger or fingers mutilated. Unfortunately I can't recall any details nor the issue, but it was some years ago.

Now after doing some Google-research, it seems that hand paintings in Europe don't have those fingers cut, rather by twisting the finger while blowing the paint (so is suggested).

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/hands/gargas.html
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/

In Cosquer, at least the site argues that the hands are adult hands. Quite probably there is not just one way of painting.

As of an initiation, that is a good guess, but then why are most hands male? If it was for males only, then why are some female?


Impossible to answer again - maybe some females were considered worthy to undergo the initiation? The thing about the initiation was just something that I made up, it has necessarily no basis at all. I haven't read very much about cave paintings.

And if we are talking of a cultural practice which spanned generations, there would be more hands than what was cited in the article (200).


The cave paintings are dated with Radiocarbon tests and their timeline span thousands of years apart. You must also remember that the hands we know about are only the hands we have discovered - without doubt there are countless caves that have disappeared, as the Cosquer cave article writes:

This highlighted a supposedly well-known but rarely referred to problem, which is the disappearance of uncounted prehistoric caves under the sea all along the Mediterranean and other shores since Ice Age times.


Pretty fascinating paintings they are, pre-teen graffiti or not.
By Schrödinger's Kitty
#845506
This type of study has always fascinated me. It is pretty cool that one can go to a cave and look on the wall at art that was drawn over 10000 years ago. At one time there was a person there, and decided to take time out from the harsh environment and basic survival to record their hunt or just blow paint on their hand, not knowing that a bunch of nerds will one day find the art and discuss it's possible meanings.
By seifer almasy
#845531
I just wrote a paper about some of the cave paintings. Nice timing.

I have a hard time swallowing this one, though. There are a couple things that jump right out at me. First, it doesn't explain any of the complex astrology found in, say, Altamira. Plus, there is plenty of evidence for things like scaffolding and lamps in the caves which I highly doubt pre-pubescent boys would be able to put together by themselves.

Also, you've got to remember the remoteness of these caves (which is the reason why the old "camp meeting" hypothesis died) It would be difficult to imagine a bunch of 13 year olds questing for some secluded area on special occasions while they could otherwise dance around a fire like the rest of humanity.
User avatar
By Lokakyy
#845541
First, it doesn't explain any of the complex astrology found in, say, Altamira.


Interesting. Do you have any source on this?
By seifer almasy
#845559
Interesting. Do you have any source on this?

Indeed I do.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/975360.stm
^ that one just relates to Lascaux. But here are some nice books that go over the ones at Altamira which are better preserved and are more clearly forms of astrology


Goran, Burenhult, ed. The First Humans: Human Origins and History to 10,000 B.C. (Illustrated History of Humankind, Vol. 1). 1st ed editionst ed. New York: Harpercollins, 1993.

Lewis-Williams, David. The Mind in the Cave: Consciousness and the Origins of Art. New York: Thames & Hudson, 2002.

Saura Ramos, Pedro A. The Cave of Altamira. New York: Harry N Abrams, 1999

Rappenglueck, Michael A. Rappenglueck Eine Himmelskarte aus der Eiszeit?
P. Lang Publishing, 1999

The Identification of Prehistoric Hunter-Gatherer Aggregation Sites: The Case of Altamira
Margaret W. Conkey
Current Anthropology, Vol. 21, No. 5. (Oct., 1980), pp. 609-630.
Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0011-3 ... 0.CO%3B2-D


^that last one you can look at if you have a jstor account.
User avatar
By Lokakyy
#845567
Fascinating, thank you for the material.

Too bad the only one I can access right now (the JSTOR article) seems to be more about items, rather than paintings. Though I just skimmed it through as I'm pretty tired right now.
By Schrödinger's Kitty
#845939
Cool.

Yeah, I was not aware of that particlur cave painting in france. However, I think it is prudent to introduce to possibility that it might be a mix of all the theories. The cave paintings stretch thousands of years and in many different areas. Perhaps it is a combination of graffiti, spiritual, hunt recording, etc.
By ninurta
#1908794
While I question if only teens did the art, I do agree over all. Most paleolithic art is nonspiritual, it depicts hunting scenes. I find this to be an interesting article, I am entering college to be an anthropologist/archaeologist.
User avatar
By Nattering Nabob
#1915633
I'm guessing testosterone charged teens had better things to do than spend the time required to develop the skill that some of those cave paintings exhibit...

Grok: Hey Groak...do you want to chase women and wild buffalo or do you want to stay in the cave with me and mix berries and mark on the wall until we get really good at it?

Groak: "No thanks old man...why don't you ask one of the old women if they want to help you?"
By ninurta
#13074957
Nattering Nabob wrote:I'm guessing testosterone charged teens had better things to do than spend the time required to develop the skill that some of those cave paintings exhibit...

Grok: Hey Groak...do you want to chase women and wild buffalo or do you want to stay in the cave with me and mix berries and mark on the wall until we get really good at it?

Groak: "No thanks old man...why don't you ask one of the old women if they want to help you?"


lol.....true. I think that it was recording like hunts or other scenes personally. Or it was religious depictions that are now of lost significance.
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#13080263
I'm guessing testosterone charged teens had better things to do than spend the time required to develop the skill that some of those cave paintings exhibit...

Its raining really fucking hard outside. No chance for catching prey. And the women arent interested in you.
What do you do?


.. whats to say cavemen didnt have emos?
By ninurta
#13088578
Thunderhawk wrote:Its raining really fucking hard outside. No chance for catching prey. And the women arent interested in you.
What do you do?


.. whats to say cavemen didnt have emos?


Who said women weren't interested? And how is that evidence they painted paintings of animals instead of women to practiceplay themselves?
User avatar
By Thunderhawk
#13089891
Who said women weren't interested?

There are outcasts in every society, no?
Why wouldnt there be outcasts amoungst the cavemen?


And how is that evidence they painted paintings of animals instead of women to practiceplay themselves?

I know 2 ~artistic Emos, one of whom doesnt paint sexual imagery or imply it.
Since cavemen arent that far back, I suspect there were Emos back then who would do shit like paint birds/animals/hunts on the walls.

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