The Battle of Chesapeake Bay - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Early modern era & beginning of the modern era. Exploration, enlightenment, industrialisation, colonisation & empire (1492 - 1914 CE).
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By MB.
#13313905
The creation of the American nation became irreversible when the brilliant strategist Lieutenant-General Francois-Joseph Paul, the Comte de Grasse, commanding Louis Antoine de Bougainville in the Pluton, won his incredible victory against Rear Admiral (future Lord) Thomas Graves, commanding (future Viscount) Sir Samuel Hood in the Barfluer, on September 5th, 1781.

Agree or disagree?

Image

The Battle of Chesapeake Bay, Sept. 5th, 1781.
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By killim
#13313937
If i remember correctly it was the reason that the british forces couldn't be resupplyied and therefore surrendered. The battle was lost despite the initiative and moment of surprise, wind and speed at the british side, because the commanding Admiral was stuck in traditional tactics and not able to use his advantages for his side.

Nelson , Drake & Co. must have turned over in her own graves.
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By MB.
#13313997
killim wrote:because the commanding Admiral was stuck in traditional tactics and not able to use his advantages for his side.

Nelson , Drake & Co. must have turned over in her own graves.


Fallacy. Thomas Graves was a great commander and leader of men and he was faced with overwhelming odds in an un-winnable situation.






That said, how did you learn about the Battle of Chesapeake Bay?
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By killim
#13314208
I've seen a French documentation about the franco-american relationship during that period. It was a part of a series about the franco-british conflicts.
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By MB.
#13315714
pugsville wrote:Thomas - a great leader? Whats that claim based on?


Admiral Graves executed a considerably complicated attack, outnumbered & outgunned, commanding an aging fleet, containing a heavily damaged warship and others pumping water, attacked and fought to a standstill a largely superior fleet under the Comte de Grasse at the Chesapeake Bay, Sept. 5th 1781.

Killim wrote:I've seen a French documentation about the franco-american relationship during that period. It was a part of a series about the franco-british conflicts.


Sounds interesting!
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By killim
#13320095
If i remember correctly the French were surprised by the English fleet with their pants down. The ships were anchored in the bay, the majority of troops were on shore, they were on the lee side and not ready for battle. They would have been an easy victim if the English commander had attacked them right from the beginning, but he went with the usual tactics and sailed back to form a clear battle line, therefore giving the French time to get ready and use their outnumbering power. He should have followed the example of Drake against the Armada etc. and not the conventional naval tactics at this time.
Last edited by killim on 15 Feb 2010 09:32, edited 1 time in total.
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By MB.
#13320111
the majority of troops were on shore


The French fleet had been disembarking the troopships they had escorted from the Caribbean (St. Simon's Corps & the artillery train). Some of the sailors and officers of the French fleet were involved in the amphibious operation. However, De Grasse had recalled his boats and some did return to the French fleet before the anchors were slipped. One can say with confidence that although one or two French warships were undermanned by no means all or the majority was the case.

They would have been an easy victim if the English commander had attacked them right from the beginning


This completely ignores the fact that De Bougainville, who was leading the van of De Grasse's fleet, knew about the shoals surrounding Cape Henry and exploited them as his division exited the bay. It would have been foolhardy to launch a fleet attack in such a dangerous area. Graves, indeed, did move the fleet to attack as the van under De Bougainville moved out of the bay, but before crashing the shoals around 2pm, Graves ordered the fleet to 'wear' about and attack the French ships in an oblique formation.

Image

The first image represents the English fleet at about 2pm before wearing against De Bougainville. The second image represents the cannonade as it developed by the late afternoon/early evening.

but he went with the usual tactics and sailed back to form a clear battle line


Sailing ship & dreadnaught battle formations are based on the maintenance of a clear line of battle.

He should have followed the example of Drake against the Armada etc. and not the conventional naval tactics at this time


Pray tell, what do you mean by the examples of Drake, etc? What were the conventional naval tactics of the time and how did they interfere with the conduct of battle on Sept. 5th, 1781?
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By Captain Hat
#13413776
I agree, completely. Without de Grasse's victory over the British fleet, there most certainly would have been no siege of Yorktown. Cornwallis would have either been swept away by a British fleet or reinforced and the Allied armies destroyed.

The Battle of the Chesapeake, or the Capes, was the linchpin of the entire Yorktown Campaign.
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By MB.
#13413833
Captain Hat. What's up. Yo so I'm allegedly a historian of warfare now with a real degree and everything.

But I don't have a job :(

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