Captain James Cook, a Hero to all Australians? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Early modern era & beginning of the modern era. Exploration, enlightenment, industrialisation, colonisation & empire (1492 - 1914 CE).
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#14006498
... or a robber who stole Aboriginal lands(of many diffrent cultures, not just Australian Aboriginies) and claimed them for England?

I personally believe it was the former as if it wasn't for him bringing English culture(And Convicts! though he didn't bring them personally, they came later) to our shores, Australia might not have even been called by that name.

I feel much maligned when unhelpful Aboriginals, who should know better, call our national commeration of the arrivial of the first fleet(of mostly convicts mind you) "Invasion Day". It was nothing of the sort and deserves to be known as "Australia Day" as it is an intergral historical event in the history of the modern western country that we have here today. Besides if it wasn't for the British, and Cook speficially, we'd probably be speaking spanish or french today(probably the latter), and we might not have had the same Westminster political system that all Australian Citizens now participate in(including Aboriginals).

Also he had a pretty awesome, and come to think of it rather pre-destined, legendary death at the hands of Hawaiian natives. No wonder Bill Shatner based Captain Kirk on him....
#14006580
James Cook was great navigator and seaman. Without doubt one of many who feats in pretty small/basic ships did amazing things.

James Cook wasn't With the First Fleet (I think you know that but the digression to first fleet wasn't natural). The First Fleet was the start of colonisation of Australia by Europeans. Australia Day is the anniversary of the first fleets arrival (not anything to do with James Cook). For the Natives of this country the colonisation meant the destruction of much of their society and culture. Colonisation was sometimes brutal, and death and misery were infliected by the process of white settlement. Sometime deliberate, Sometimes accidental, Sometime despite the 'best' of white intentions. I think it's reasonable for the native decedents of the few survivours of white settlement have little to celebrate and can justly call it invasion day. Until Australia faces up to it's history and makes a just settlement and treaty with the it's native peoples it is on morally questionable foundations. We can't change the past, but Native Australians are deserving of much better treatment than they get now. The Intervention in the North requires the suspension of the Racial discrimination act, it's pretty much racist and rank paternalism. The only way forward for australia's native people is when they are involved in any program rather than the centralised white paternalism that both labour and liberal governments are persuing with the "Intervention".
#14006870
Until Australia faces up to it's history and makes a just settlement and treaty with the it's native peoples it is on morally questionable foundations. We can't change the past, but Native Australians are deserving of much better treatment than they get now.

Problem is some of them would only be happy if those of nominal European decent bowed down to their every wish. A just settlement for some of the more political Aboriginals would be to have them legally own every single inch of the country, and wipe out every bit of the now more than 230 years old, european heritage that ever existed here, mostly starting with Cook and then the First Fleet. The Republic movement doesn't seem to concern them so much for some reason, guessing that's because it will decided upon by all Australians so some of them want nothing to do with it as usual.

Its still a very simular situation here with these aboriginal "Zionists/Palestinians(both just as bad as each other)" to the much younger, and more violent, sitation in Israel.

They may not be representative of all Aboriginal people, but they are certainly the most agressive and racially politically motivated.

Ther's no way a "Just settlement" will ever be reached when there's such horrid "we don't want you here, we've been here thousands of years, you've only been here 220, we call your arrival 'Invasion Day' and refuse to recognise it as historically imporant" racism. Or the same bullshit going the other way from white rednecks.
#14006878
Cook is someone we learn about in Oregon history too, he was amongst the first to go around the Oregon Coast—hence why we have English names like Cape Foulweather (because the weather was bad when Cook found it; the English have never been the most creative with naming things) instead of Spanish names like further south.

I always sort of liked that the same guy the Australians think of a forerunner is the same guy that was in Oregon. The guy's life was pretty astounding—though you're right in that he brought very few people with him to stay. He was more Silver Surfer to Britain's Galactus.
#14084713
Cook was no doubt a superb seafarer and explorer but he cannot be credited with the discovering Australia (several other Europeans had visited) or settling it. Joseph Banks (the chief botanist) was the main proponent of colonisation of the newly claimed land. Is he a hero? Sure his voyage set about the colonisation of Australia by the British but as others have pointed out it was only a matter of time before some European power claimed the continent.

Aboriginals achieved much culturally in the +40,000 years of habitation here and also managed to survive in some pretty inhospitable environments but in terms of 'civilisation' from the western point of view they had not moved much further than the nomads that arrived here. I am not going to argue about the morality of subjugating their ancient cultures but it was inevitable, they had no way to adapt and resist because they lacked any sort of power structure outside the rudimentary tribe\extended family unit.

The way I see the present situation is that we cannot have a treaty like the NZers have with the maoris because we have no defined leadership with who to talk to. I will not accept any concept of reparations as they are unfair, many of our white ancestors were sent here against their will. Instead I think we have to recognise and acknowledge the aboriginals culturally as being the 'first settlers' in what has become wave after wave of people looking for a better life, and they have to decide whether they want to be part of this country, a fusion of many different people. Of course they deserve assistance, but not because they are aboriginal, but because they are one of the poorest segments of our society and should recieve equal government support compared to all others in the same situation.
#14084804
They actually receive more government support than the white fellas.

But I oppose all government support, for all people.

Welfare creates poverty, and destroys families.
#14150404
I grew up very close to Cook's birthplace (Murton) and home-town (Whitby) and he was a huge, towering heroic figure for Yorkshire kids. What followed on from his explorations has nothing to do with him, and doesn't dim the legend at all. I'm still a big fan.
#14169189
I don't admire Cook's legacy for his discovery of the east coast of Australia. I admire it as I admire that of all explorers.

I suppose if I were an Aboriganal person, I would be pretty angry about the way my ancestors were treated, but it certainly wasn't any Wounded Knee, or Auschwitz which some of them would have you believe. The grudge is their ball and chain.
#14173706
neopagan wrote:I don't admire Cook's legacy for his discovery of the east coast of Australia. I admire it as I admire that of all explorers.

I suppose if I were an Aboriganal person, I would be pretty angry about the way my ancestors were treated, but it certainly wasn't any Wounded Knee, or Auschwitz which some of them would have you believe. The grudge is their ball and chain.


agreed

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