[THX-1138]

Prove Lincoln actually believed that the white race was superior. And don't use some old speeches from the 1850's. Use the speechs and writings from the end of his life.

[ComradeRick-CL]

so one example isnt enough, one has to be a racist through his whole life to be a racist?, we are discussing at that point in his life he was a racist, Lincoln wasnt a good man, he just did what all politicians do, to sell that they are good to keep his position

[Ombrageux]

the slaves werent freed by him, obviously he had some say, but ultimately emancipation comes from the people themselves, in their resistance.

You're sounding like DeGaulle here.

"Paris! You have freed yourself!"

Necessary nitwitry.

[Thoss]

Lincoln wasnt a good man,

I big to differ.

I could care less what his reasons were for issuing the proclaimation, the mere fact that the slaves were legally freed in areas controlled by the Union by his order preserves his legacy for me.

[THX-1138]

so one example isnt enough, one has to be a racist through his whole life to be a racist?, we are discussing at that point in his life he was a racist, Lincoln wasnt a good man, he just did what all politicians do, to sell that they are good to keep his position

I think you underestimate him. His position did change, and no it wasn't because he was a politician. Afterall, this is the mid-19th century. What he wrote about in his letters were never made public in his day so the people really didn't know what he believed. From my understanding, his change of view may have come about from observing and admiring Frederick Douglass.

[Boondock Saint]

By the way, how many of the American posters on this board had ancestors who fought for the south?

I don't think my ancestors were even in teh US at that time, though my Grandfather claims we had family living here since the first colonials. If that were true then they would have fought for the Union, if they fought that is.

so one example isnt enough

No.

A political speach is not enough.

Why you ask?

Bush gives many political speeches about the Iraq invasion. His rhetoric states that his war is for freedom and democracy.

Does that mean that 150+ years from now some people will be stating that his political speeches are the end all be all proof of his personal views?

I hope not.

That being said, it's also important to remember that men like Lincoln were not really heroes.

Hero is such an overused concept these days. However anyone can be a hero to anyone else. So I think Lincoln could be a hero to some but then so could Hitler and Britney Spears.