[Thoss]

What about Midway and Guam? Perhaps the Japanese would demand those possessions to enhance their strategic position in the mid pacific. Coaling Stations there would give their fleet an increased reach towards North America.

The only questions would be whether TR and Root would be willing to conceed such positions.

Probably not. But what separates the two besides 40 years? ideology. Imperial America of 1905 may have been able to accept a defeat from an another Imperial Empire given that two much isn't lost. For example, the US can still fall back on the victorious 1898 war for prestige. If the Japanese don't ask for much, America, swollen with territorial gains, would surely accept loss.

I agree. I can see TR wanting to keep going after a defeat. But his Cabinet was filled with especially capable statesmen (especially Root) and would likely convince TR that the negiotating table would be the best way to finish the war.


What do you guys think the German position would be in this hyporthetical Japanese-American War? I ask because during the Spanish American War, the Imperial German Navy frequently found itself pissing off the Americans by poking their nose near the Phillipines.

Why Japan and Britain at least under a relationship of benign neutrality as per their alliance, what would Germany do in the midst of the growing Anglo-German Navy rivalry?

[Figlio di Moros]

I'd say the german position would be in favor of the Americans; The Czar would want a shot at Japan, and him and the Kaiser were close friends.

Also, the war with Japan on the American side would've been much easier. The Japanese had a long way to go still, and the Americans had better technology, more researches, more allies, more balls(having defeated better Navies before), and the pump from recent victory, very likely magnified if Americans are pro-war.

The only question is, why would Americans want to go to war with Japan in 1904?

[clearthought]

US military was tiny, really tiny, before the world wars. However, Japan was not as modernized and did not have as many friends, among other weakening factors. My chronologically-challenged psyche cannot remember whether Japan and Russia had begun their on-and-off fighting over Manchuria (?) before 1900, but if they had, Russia would be against Japan as well as the Brits, who were largely enforcing the Monroe Doctrine for the United States at the time.

[Thunderhawk]

In realality 1904 was when Japan and and Russia went to war. For the sake of this scenario, I suspect Mr. Bill would consider the Russians neutral for the time being.


Otherwise the Japanese would be fighting Russia on land with phyrric victories, and against the USA on the seas - or so I see it.

[MB.]

I suspect Mr. Bill would consider the Russians neutral for the time being.

Do you think they would get involved? The Short Victorious War might be a reality with the IJN tied down fighting the American Navy.

US military was tiny, really tiny, before the world wars. However, Japan was not as modernized and did not have as many friends, among other weakening factors.

I disagree completely. The American Military had proved its worth by conquering and holding the Philipines, Guam and Cuba, etc. Indeed, the American commitment to the Philipines would outlast WWII. As for Japan, it was one of the most technologically modern countries of its time. Its government, industrial sector, Army and Navy were all state of the art and based on European models. They were allied with the British to boot, so they certainly did have powerful friends.

The Czar would want a shot at Japan

I agree. I believe the Russians would use the situation to advance their interests in Korea and Manchuria.

and the Americans had better technology, more researches, more allies, more balls

Trite pompus bullshit.

why would Americans want to go to war with Japan in 1904

The Japanese would presumably start the conflict, given their tactical predisposition to striking first, fast, and hard.

What about Midway and Guam? Perhaps the Japanese would demand those possessions to enhance their strategic position in the mid pacific. Coaling Stations there would give their fleet an increased reach towards North America.

Midway was a British colony. As for Guam, the Japanese didn't turn toward greater Pacific expansion until they felt their position in Manchuria secured. Which is why I see the Philippines as a likely source of contention- the southern Pacific was weak, colonially speaking, and resource rich for those willing to exploit it.

I can see TR wanting to keep going after a defeat. But his Cabinet was filled with especially capable statesmen (especially Root) and would likely convince TR that the negiotating table would be the best way to finish the war

Was the post- 1898 congress isolationist? Just OOC.

Why Japan and Britain at least under a relationship of benign neutrality as per their alliance,

The Anglo-Japanese Alliance was crucial to both sides. The British were able to reduce their commitment to the Pacific and thus increase their home-fleet against German Naval expansion; a race they were well aware they would ultimately lose. The Japanese gained access to both British coaling stations, and more importantly, British coal itself. Indeed, the Alliance was only ultimately terminated under increasing American pressure in the inter-war years. I would imagine, if the Japanese were able to defeat the Americans and secure a favorable peace, that the Anglo-Japanese alliance would be further strengthened. The American position as a Great Power would be questioned, and indeed, the British would be less likely to turn against their ally in the Pacific at the behest of American economic and strategic pressure as historically occurred.

[Thunderhawk]

Do you think they would get involved? The Short Victorious War might be a reality with the IJN tied down fighting the American Navy.

"yes"
During or after the Americans finish their war with Japan, I dont know.

If Russia goes to war with Japan during Japan's war with the USA - say when Japan lands alot of their troops in the Philippines, I could see Russia making quick gains followed by consolidation. The original Russia units in the Far east was damn good and well equiped (arguably the best Russia had) - but small. They could not take and hold much without massive reinforcements.

However, would Japan risk sending alot of their military to strike the Philippines (or elsewhere) without an agreement with Russia first? Russia would jump on the oppertunity given a somewhat "friendly" relations with the USA, their arrogance towards Japan, and a chance to gain more territory. Japan would surely see this. Would Japan risk a preemptive strike against the USA without assuring Russia isnt a threat?

[MB.]

Would Japan risk a preemptive strike against the USA without assuring Russia isnt a threat

Well, no. Given that historically the Japanese attacked Russia first, before dealing with the United States.

[Thoss]

Midway was a British colony.

Was it not under Secretary of State Seward that the US took Midway in 1867?[/quote]

[Far-Right Sage]

Well, Japan beat Russia in the Russo-Japanese war, which was around 1904 or 1905(I believe), so I think they would definately give the U.S. a run for its money. It really could go either way.

[MB.]

The atoll was discovered July 5, 1859 by Captain N.C. Middlebrooks, though he was most commonly known as Captain Brooks, of the seal hunting ship Gambia. The islands were named the "Middlebrook Islands" or the "Brook Islands". Brooks claimed Midway for the United States under the Guano Islands Act of 1856, which authorized Americans to temporarily occupy uninhabited islands to obtain guano. On August 28, 1867, Captain William Reynolds of the USS Lackawanna formally took possession of the atoll for the United States

According to Wiki, you are correct Thoss. My bad.

But Midway would be pretty useless as a naval possession in the pre-air power period.