[Cid]

CID: the ridiculiosity of you, and your compatriots is mind-bending. If you think your beautifications and your quoting of Ellinic masterpieces is enough to save you from ridiculiosity, you have misjudged the whole situation.

My reply came when your side blamed Ellas for an alleged bomb that somehow provides you with moral ground to perform the above events...I prove it wrong, and you accuse me?

Noemon you must first realise there are no sides, free your eyes from seeing the Turks as hordes, there is me, Doomhammer and Vanasalus. We are not a collective, each of us are individual human beings who are no different from you, physically nor morally.

You make fun of my name ELLAS? You dare? You deny your crimes unlike many other nations, when the sources are numerous in regards, you reject the peace move that I made towards you and you rejected it, you accuse me of bigotry?

noemon, there was no reason to make peace because I have never been in war with you. You proposal was because you personally coudnt and still cant accept to use the word Greek and Greece which is perfecty normal in the English language.

You are the same as your compatriots. Unworthy of discussion and dialogue. The only thing that you are worthy for, is to have someone like me around and observe every single lie of yours, and make you feel sorry that you even typed it.

And what makes you worthy to judge that other people are unworthy. You have constantly judged me, but I have never judged you, only questioned your judgement.

What is your opinion on the Turkish denialism?

Turkish denialism is no differnt from Greek denialism or any other nationalistic denialism. When the curtains of the national "collective" consciousness of Greeks and Turks are unraveled, the human history and their faces will be uncovered, bare and naked to embrace us all.

I do not attack you, i attack the ridicule of your government as expressed, illustrated and proven beyond any doubt by your compatriots, and since you are the only reasonable Turk in here, it is you that i choose to address, because only then the other children will eventually come to terms.

In the very same post you called me:

CID: the ridiculiosity of you,

You are the same as your compatriots. Unworthy of discussion and dialogue.

You have attacked me and clouded by hate you do no see it, even if it was a couple of sentences earlier.

What is your opinion on the Turkish denialism?

Turkish denialism is no differnt from Greek denialism or any other nationalistic denialism. When the curtains of the "collective" Greek and Turkish consciousness is unraveled, the human history and their faces will be uncovered, bare and naked to embrace us all.

LOGOS ALWAYS PREVAILS.

Logos indeed always prevails, in a mind free of hate and fear.

This is for my part the last time i will ask this question.

Afterwards i shall only be here to observe, and don't tell me to read Seferis and Kazantzakis because i live in their poems, i have nothing to apologize to you, Nothing to come to terms with.

Dear noemon, I dont ask you to read Kazantzakis/Seferis or to live in their poems. I only ask you to uncloud you mind of hate and fear. They have stressed your soul and body as indicated in you capslocked writings. You will always be a friend for me and I shall look forward for the day you have unclouded your mind of this hate and fear and we can talk as free man. Till then Godspeed.

[noemon]

Idiot. How you managed to twist my words in that mind of yours to think that I approve of these killings in Istanbul is beyond my comprehension.

What the fuck is the BUT doing down there, hey smart

The events in Istanbul are unfortunate but it's a bigotted response to the events at Thesseloniki

I was being neutral by saying the identity of the attackers are questionable.

The idenity of the attackers is established by your own court-rooms. He was a Turkish special agent:

The trial also revealed that the fuse for the consulate bomb was sent from Turkey to Thessaloniki on September 3. Oktay Engin, the MAH agent, who was then in Thessaloniki under the cover of a university student, was given the mission of installing the explosives.[2]

I think you are looking for an excuse to fight; either that, or you are extremely touchy, sensitive and slightly illiterate. Knife

From your use of the term "BUT", and then contradicting your own self conitnuously, the only illeterate man in here must be you and Vanasalus, for keeping on changing the subject and accusing us for a subject that we have payed already(2 muftis) when you perform the same policies.

About your constant use of "Ellines". Frankly, I don't care. But this is an English forum and the rules say that we must adhere to the "English" language. Aside from that, when you use words like "ethos" and "Ellines" etc. some people don't understand what you say. Perhaps you should use more English and a little less Greek (aside from the Greek words in English).

Why do you care?

Bigotry? Jealousy? Denialism?

The official name of my country is Ellas, and the poeple Ellines, and Oh YEs you can go fuck yourself.

Oh who cares about the names of countries. Will you stop being so petty? Greece, Hellas, Ellines... who cares? This is an English forum so just say Greece. In English, my ountry shares the name of a poultry animal. Do we care? No. Do we keep saying Türkiye everywhere and consider the word Turkey as an insult? No. This is not a rational discourse.

You care, see the above paragraph, boy go on get a pie..

You yourself are not a real prize either.

Never claimed that i am.

No, Noemon. You are wrong. You've been doing this since day one. Infact, I first answered your post because I was irritated by you insulting forum members. You never learn and you never cease. Now who's in denial?

Dude you came day one, and supported the Fyromaniacs, whereas every single argument alive is purely made for nationalistic purposes and oh, yes you were on that side.

If i start on Turkey, you will realize, when i say ive left you alone, trust me on it, because you seriously do not want to get me started.

Divide et impera

Sure whatever, Doomhammer i ll tell you this and if you want listen to it.

I live my life by a code of conduct that has been imprinted in my brain through my dna. I speak my mind straight up, Straight, no matter who, what, where. I am not a dodgy individual, never been and never will be one.

When the truth is in danger, ill be there to defend it, with real arguments as you certainly have realized by now. The only Turk in here worthy to discuss is Cid, the only one in here that can end the Ellino-Turkish thingy is her. Not us, and not your propagated minds. We have nothing to apologize to you, and you are far too propagated to even come close on admitting the things that you are certainly aware of. So Cid, i picked in order not to enter to these arguments, and go by peacefully, when i realized that other Ellines are around, and they are not ready to compromise, so I decided to give you an offer, you rejected it and the rest is the past 2 days History and Present, the stripping of your ridicule.

Now since all people are worthy of their fate as you so finely preach, you can relax and enjoy the dinner of your own shit.

Congratulations.

I presume we were discussing about the religious rights "Muslim" minority, described by Lausanne treaty. Accordingly, "Muslim" minority has the right of electing its religious leader as the ecumenical patriarch is being elected in Turkey. And, Greek state has been trying to undermine it since 1985 by appointing an irrelevant mufti in spite of the will of the community.

So Turkey is not undermining the Patriarch when she has decreed that the Patriarch be of Turkish nationality, and no Turk is allowed to take the office? LOL!!!

And we disposed and appointed 2 muftis(something that Turkey has been doing for ever), ONCE and payed for it. What is your point? That? What? That the various persecutions commited by your disgusting State are justified because the evil Ellines disposed 2 muftis? Go get a bone.

[noemon]

Noemon you must first realise there are no sides, free your eyes from seeing the Turks as hordes, there is me, Doomhammer and Vanasalus. We are not a collective, each of us are individual human beings who are no different from you, physically nor morally.

I agree but in disputed issues, there are always 2 sides, and in everything there are 2 sides: The LETHE and ALETHE= The Oblivion and the Truth.

noemon, there was no reason to make peace because I have never been in war with you. You proposal was because you personally coudnt and still cant accept to use the word Greek and Greece which is perfecty normal in the English language.

You are making far too many assumptions, as stated already the term Greece is perfectly fine, and i have no problem with it since i have used it some millions of times, and i have also explained to you the situation. My offer to you was symbolic, in case you haven't realized already.

Our countries are in continuous WAR, in case you do not know.

Our pilot died only a few years ago, ten years ago we were killing each other for a rock, every day they fight above my head. Far deep into Ellinic waters.

And what makes you worthy to judge that other people are unworthy. You have constantly judged me, but I have never judged you, only questioned your judgement.

I am sorry. And i mean it, i crossed the line above.

Turkish denialism is no differnt from Greek denialism or any other nationalistic denialism. When the curtains of the national "collective" consciousness of Greeks and Turks are unraveled, the human history and their faces will be uncovered, bare and naked to embrace us all.

Very true, but i am not a denialist, you can always try me.

All the times that an argument has been raised we have all seen, who the denialists are.

You have attacked me and clouded by hate you do no see it, even if it was a couple of sentences earlier.

What i meant is that i have not attacked a Turkish argument without being challenged or without me observing that the argument is false. No initiative.

Logos indeed always prevails, in a mind free of hate and fear.

Certainly.

Dear noemon, I dont ask you to read Kazantzakis/Seferis or to live in their poems. I only ask you to uncloud you mind of hate and fear. They have stressed your soul and body as indicated in you capslocked writings. You will always be a friend for me and I shall look forward for the day you have unclouded your mind of this hate and fear and we can talk as free man. Till then Godspeed.

Cid, when your people open their eyes and see only what in this thread alone has been claimed, i will be in peace, at least in here, cause generally it will take too many forums and great effort, until the Turks come to terms, and at least stop preaching the vomit, at least they can stop preaching it, cause accepting it comes by default.

Cid, tell me, Doomhammer trying to cover up the Pogrom, through the bomb.

Your state wanting to be in the EU without recognizing equal rights to the Ellines?

Your Cyprus invasion, which supposedly was an exercise, when there was no government in office in Ellas?

Your continuing policies of ethnic cleansing, Bokzada(OPEN PRISON)? Istanpolis? Cyprus?

The denial of the Fire of Smyrna? Which started when the Ellines had already left the coast?

Your Anatolian theories about the Turks being the true Ellines, and the Ellines being Slavs?

Your compatriots denial of the Ellinic History(see macedonia threads)?

Htf do you expect a reasonable person to respond?

Please tell me, Jesus style, "turn the other cheek"?

So that what, get the clearing of being hate-free?

No dear Cid, things are not that simple.

When your State stops interfering with my Yoga everyday for playing bully over my head, in order to show off to people like Doomhammer and Vanasalus; when your State stands up and publicly accepts the most grave persecutional History of the past Century(because denial shows that there is future planning), then, my fears will stop, my "hate" comes from my fear, fear for WAR. This does not stop when there is active interference with my state of mind. No matter how hard i have learned to meditate, this is not possible, however, i keep on trying, and i actually do try to separate my inner state of being from the collective crap that dwell all around me, in every single aspect of my being. Even the simplest of things which is just a name, Cid.

Anyway, i am very sorry for attacking you Cid, here personally today with all that ugly words.

[Doomhammer]

Edit: Stop double posting.

Noemon you must first realise there are no sides, free your eyes from seeing the Turks as hordes, there is me, Doomhammer and Vanasalus. We are not a collective, each of us are individual human beings who are no different from you, physically nor morally.

QFT.
Which is true for you Greeks as well. We acknowledge that you all have different ideas and feelings, this is why I think it is irrational of you to say that we/all Turks are xenophobic, paranoid denialists.

And for the record, Cid is actually my puppet acount.
(That was a joke to lighten up the mood)

What the fuck is the BUT doing down there, hey smart

Sigh.

The events in Istanbul are unfortunate but it's a bigotted response to the events at Thesseloniki (even if some claim it was done by Turks, for what reason I can't image. But this is irrelavant)

The first part expresses my disapproval of the event.

The second part, is why I think Kemalism wasn't responsible

The third part is an acknowledgement to the fact that those responsible for the attacks in Thesselnoniki (which led to an unfortunate reaction in Istanbul) are disputed. In the same part, I also point out that this point is irrelevant because, in the end, many people died for a trivial reason.

Happy?

The idenity of the attackers is established by your own court-rooms. He was a Turkish special agent:

Ok. See part 3^. I don't care.

From your use of the term "BUT", and then contradicting your own self conitnuously, .

I barely said anything. How do I contradict my self when I haven't even said anything?

the only illeterate man in here must be you and Vanasalus, for keeping on changing the subject

You've been changing the topic continiously and making mountains out of molehills. It's amusing that you constantly resort to insults when you can't think of something proper to say.

Why do you care?

Because you're discussing it and because it is technically against forum rules.

Bigotry?

I stated that I don't care. I was merely remind you of the forum rules. It was for your own good.

Jealousy?

Of what? It's a language. Who cares? Seriously get over it. It's no nobler than Hindi or Swedish.

Denialism?

How is that even relavant? How would me denying the actions of the Ottoman Empire and Turkey be relavant to me objecting your usage of Greek words? Makes no sense.

The official name of my country is Ellas, and the poeple Ellines,

Good for you. It's "Greece" and "Greeks" in English.

and Oh YEs you can go fuck yourself.

Give me a good reason why I shouldn't report you right now?

Never claimed that i am.

Your attitude tells all.

Dude you came day one, and supported the Fyromaniacs, whereas every single argument alive is purely made for nationalistic purposes and oh, yes you were on that side.

Didn't you join the forum just to post there and denounce evil Mr. Megalomatis? My final verdict was that the populations of the Balkans are too mixed and it is legitimate for the "Slavoscopians" to claim their decendency to the Macedonians (bu not legitimate to monopolize it and alienate the ones in Greece). But please, let's not disucss this again. Just assume I'm wrong and I'm some idiot and go on with your life.

If i start on Turkey, you will realize, when i say ive left you alone, trust me on it, because you seriously do not want to get me started.

Go ahead, your friends have. Nobody cares.

I live my life by a code of conduct that has been imprinted in my brain through my dna.

Personality isn't determined (entirely by DNA). Just thought I should point it out.

I speak my mind straight up, Straight, no matter who, what, where. I am not a dodgy individual, never been and never will be one.

I don't care. Good for you. Post your life story on Gorkiy Park or the lobby.

Not us, and not your propagated minds.

See this is the part that makes me laugh. Fine I'll admit I'm not the most objective or patient person in the world. But why can't you accept that you might be subjective and indoctrinated (even the least bit)?

Now since all people are worthy of their fate as you so finely preach, you can relax and enjoy the dinner of your own shit.

God, I hope I'm not like you.

Congratulations.

Ditto.

These were addressed at Cid, but I would like to answer a few myself.

Our countries are in continuous WAR, in case you do not know.

Why do you think that is?

All the times that an argument has been raised we have all seen, who the denialists are.

Cid, tell me, Doomhammer trying to cover up the Pogrom, through the bomb.

Some people react to that sort of thing, and once you have several people in a crowd with hateful (or whatever) ideas, then people mindlessly conform to them and act out accordingly. See? A, possible, psychological explanation.

Your Cyprus invasion, which supposedly was an exercise, when there was no government in office in Ellas?

Now who's being paranoid.

Cyprus?

Yes, tell us about Cyprus. You denailist you.

Your Anatolian theories about the Turks being the true Ellines, and the Ellines being Slavs?

Where did you get that? I recall saying something like the peoples of Turkey and the Balkans "are very mixed and it is difficult be certain in such issues." This is something I said and I stand by it. It is not some Anatolian theory where we Turks wish to become "Ellines" and feel superior.

Your compatriots denial of the Ellinic History(see macedonia threads)?

Just me. I explained it.

Htf do you expect a reasonable person to respond?

STFU and stop being so damn blind and subjective? That seems reasonable.

So that what, get the clearing of being hate-free?

Know thyself.

When your State stops interfering with my Yoga everyday for playing bully over my head, in order to show off to people like Doomhammer and Vanasalus;

Whoa, newsflash I don't work for the government and I've only spent 4 years of my academic in Turkey.

when your State stands up and publicly accepts the most grave persecutional History of the past Century(because denial shows that there is future planning)

then, my fears will stop, my "hate" comes from my fear, fear for WAR.

There will be no war. That's you paranoid dellusion. I've told you before.

No matter how hard i have learned to meditate, this is not possible, however, i keep on trying, and i actually do try to separate my inner state of being from the collective crap that dwell all around me, in every single aspect of my being. Even the simplest of things which is just a name, Cid.

That's a cute story.

[Vanasalus]

So Turkey is not undermining the Patriarch when she has decreed that the Patriarch be of Turkish nationality, and no Turk is allowed to take the office? LOL!!!

And we disposed and appointed 2 muftis(something that Turkey has been doing for ever), ONCE and payed for it. What is your point? That? What? That the various persecutions commited by your disgusting State are justified because the evil Ellines disposed 2 muftis? Go get a bone.

I presume you still have difficulty in digesting the terms of Lausanne treaty. According to the treaty, yes, patriarch must be a Greek with Turkish citizenship. Yet the members of Holy Synod are from all over the world and they choose the patriarch with their free will. And yes, Turks in Greece have the right of electing their religious leaders according to Lausanne, and Greece has been denying it since 1985.

Once again, turkey's domestic religious policy is its own concern. By the way, what happens if we start appointing ecumenical patriarch by Turkish directorate of religious affairs? Quite possibly, your whining will be heard even in Alpha Centauri in that case.

[noemon]

Happy?

Sure.

I barely said anything. How do I contradict my self when I haven't even said anything?

Because you said unfortunate events, then "but", and then made a disclaimer.

Very simple.

You've been changing the topic continiously and making mountains out of molehills. It's amusing that you constantly resort to insults when you can't think of something proper to say.

Only responded to your denialism.

Because you're discussing it and because it is technically against forum rules.

I stated that I don't care. I was merely remind you of the forum rules. It was for your own good.

Of what? It's a language. Who cares? Seriously get over it. It's no nobler than Hindi or Swedish.

Yeah sure.

How is that even relavant? How would me denying the actions of the Ottoman Empire and Turkey be relavant to me objecting your usage of Greek words? Makes no sense.

These are different topic, the Ellas topic you raised for some reason of your own, ofc your claim that you did it because it is against forum rules is only laughable, because the official name is Ellas, Greece is only popular, nothing else.

Good for you. It's "Greece" and "Greeks" in English.

False its Ellas, and Ellines, Greece and Greeks is only popular and famous in the West due to the Roman Catholics and their Ellinic neighbors for milleniums, the Greek tribe who are still there in Sicily, Pouglia, still speaking their ancient idiom, unlike the millenium old Yunanis on the Anatolian coast.

Give me a good reason why I shouldn't report you right now?

You are free to do whatever you wish.

Your attitude tells all.

Never said otherwise.

I don't care. Good for you. Post your life story on Gorkiy Park or the lobby.

Then do not accuse my person with assumptions.

See this is the part that makes me laugh. Fine I'll admit I'm not the most objective or patient person in the world. But why can't you accept that you might be subjective and indoctrinated (even the least bit)?

Ofc i am, and most Ellines are, but through some years of research i know where most Ellines are faulty, and am ready to accept the propagations of my goverenemeny which are insignificant ans small(cause seriously the Ellines have enough History to be proud of) and mostly source for Church purposes and through the Church.(see above Krypho Scholeio is one example) It makes the Ellines feel good on being Orthodox when the Church supposedly risked their lives to educate us from the Turkish monsters.

And yes, Turks in Greece have the right of electing their religious leaders according to Lausanne, and Greece has been denying it since 1985.

For the 100th time, what is your point?

Once again, turkey's domestic religious policy is its own concern. By the way, what happens if we start appointing ecumenical patriarch by Turkish directorate of religious affairs? Quite possibly, your whining will be heard even in Alpha Centauri in that case.

I don't give a shit about the Patriarch, he is not a El;linic affair, he is Ecumenical for the Planet. Even though Ellas is the only country that defends his rights. And that is her problem.

Let us do it once again. Your muftis are elected democratically to run Ellinic state affairs, the Ptriarche runs no Turkish affairs, the muftis are the mayors of the villages they belong to the Ellinic state and they are social workers, do not mix apples with oranges. Once we deposed the elected leaders and installed our own, and we got punished for it. Where is our mayors in Turkey? Where is our minority in Turkey? Before even trying to paralize from your clearly propagated mind, that even if we have a minority, you do not allow them to ownership, you do not allow them, nothing you tax them like dogs, you have ethnically cleansed them all. And you dare to come here and accuse why from your minority which is flourishing with our money, why did we depose 2 muftis once?

Cid? What the fuck does a reasonable person say or do? tell me, WHAT?

Htf can i react? How?

You have all accused of being paranoid, of being hateful, illiterate...does anybody in here have the slightest of a brain?

And something else Vanasalus, why did you change

"Your scream will be heard from the seven corners of the world?"

to

"your whining will be heard even in Alpha Centauri in that case?"

This made me laugh a lot.

I guess you did cause you gave me more credit than you actually meant to, didnt you?

And then i wonder.

[Vanasalus]

This discussion is going nowhere...

Your muftis are elected democratically to run Ellinic state affairs, the Ptriarche runs no Turkish affairs, the muftis are the mayors of the villages they belong to the Ellinic state and they are social workers,

Source?

And you dare to come here and accuse why from your minority which is flourishing with our money

Source?

You have all accused of being paranoid, of being hateful, illiterate...does anybody in here have the slightest of a brain?

Well, it has been always striking for me to observe the resemblance between Arabs and Greeks in general, as well as between those two and a drum. They all make a lot of noise but at the end the noise is as a result of inherent emptiness.

[noemon]

This discussion is going nowhere...

Look whose talikng, just observe; Turkish ridiculiosity today has reached its zenith.

Dude, read the link you supplied in order to build your despicable case, better:

Source?

In the link that you supplied:

The main minority grievance regards the appointment of muftis. The Greek government started appointing muftis instead of holding elections after the death of Mufti of Komotini in 1985 (which is a failure to implement Law 2345/1920 according to Cultural Survival [7]), although the Greek government maintained that as the practice of state-appointed muftis is widespread (including in Turkey), this practice should be adhered to in Greece, and as the muftis perform certain judicial functions in matters of family and inheritance law, the state ought to appoint them.[2]

At least read the bloody things.

Source 2

All the aforementioned institutions are funded by the state.[6]

Go to the wiki article you went before to copy/paste your brilliant argument and click on number 2 and number 6.

Ajde, ajde kiddo.

[Vanasalus]

Dude, read the link you supplied in order to build your despicable case, better:

Where does it say muftis will hold the power of mayors? Do you have a source for it or you’ve just blown it out of you ass, as usual.

All the aforementioned institutions are funded by the state.

Well, I presume the income of the state is predominantly the tax revenues, paid by every citizen of Greece, including minorities. If you think that the minorities are flourishing with your money, then you are flourishing with their money too.

[Cid]

I agree but in disputed issues, there are always 2 sides, and in everything there are 2 sides: The LETHE and ALETHE= The Oblivion and the Truth.

There are no sides, oblivion and truth only apply to yourself not others, to label others as such is nothing more then mental masturbation. There is only yourself to know.

You are making far too many assumptions, as stated already the term Greece is perfectly fine, and i have no problem with it since i have used it some millions of times, and i have also explained to you the situation. My offer to you was symbolic, in case you haven't realized already.

That is not what you said, it speaks for itself:

You make fun of my name ELLAS? You dare? You deny your crimes unlike many other nations, when the sources are numerous in regards, you reject the peace move that I made towards you and you rejected it, you accuse me of bigotry?

Our countries are in continuous WAR, in case you do not know.

Our pilot died only a few years ago, ten years ago we were killing each other for a rock, every day they fight above my head. Far deep into Ellinic waters.

Greece and Turkey are not continuous at war, they just pretend to be and both are guilty for taking part in it. Turkish government finds it hard to except that its Airforce has to fill in flightplans to Athens FLIR for safety reasons if they want to fly over the Aegean. Greek government propagates Athens FLIR as Greek national airspace and makes machoistic dogfight shows for its public. All in all its chauvinism from both sides, nothing more. In fact military observers from both sides praise the dogfights because it provides realistic training. Too realistic as shown last year when a Greek pilot died. May he rest in peace, but fact is you have to blame the amateuristic foreign policy and the chauvinist sentiments at both sides, for not wanting to resolve it.

Very true, but i am not a denialist, you can always try me.

All the times that an argument has been raised we have all seen, who the denialists are.

Why do you speak in a collective manner, we have not seen anything, you have seen it according to your own judgement.

What i meant is that i have not attacked a Turkish argument without being challenged or without me observing that the argument is false. No initiative.

That is not true, this thread was how biased and chauvinist views are prevailent on both sides of the aegean, and yet you bring those views into the discussion as argument. You have braught in the fire and now play the victim. There is non to blame but yourself.

Cid, Kemal and his vision spawned a State that its ruthlessness is established whether you admit to it or not, it is indeed a historical fact, and totally independent from any Ellinic nationalistic coronas. Kemal had no vision of a peaceful Aegean, cause if he did his creation wouldnt have taken the Islands of Imvros and Tenedos which were ultimately Ellinic and turn Imvros into an open prison. Cid, your State is a Deep State, which has a lot of blood on its hands, blood repeated not just similar to Hitler once and out, but with repetition, your State is what inspired Hitler as stated by Hitler himself, and your State is in this continuing pursuit of continuing its policies and hiding behind its fingers, like an elephant in front of a tooth pick.

Cid, when your people open their eyes and see only what in this thread alone has been claimed, i will be in peace, at least in here, cause generally it will take too many forums and great effort, until the Turks come to terms, and at least stop preaching the vomit, at least they can stop preaching it, cause accepting it comes by default.

Very egocentric, how about other people who are unease about your rampage here.

Cid, tell me, Doomhammer trying to cover up the Pogrom, through the bomb.

The Istanbul pogroms were wrong in all facets. And the Turkish people have payed for it dearly, not only the loss of her citizens in Istanbul, but also with the loss of democratic development in the 50's. I have a friend in Istanbul, who said how the older generation regretted the events and the loss of the City of Cities vibrant culture.
But likewise it is wrong to use this to hate Turkey. There is a lott of Greek history in Turkey, but in the end it doesnt concern the Republic of Greece. The Anatolian Greek history and the Anatolian Greeks are 100% part of Turkey and the sooner you realise this the better. The American Republic exists for only 250 years and nobody refers them as occupiers, yet till this day after a 1000 years national Greeks still refer to the Turks as occupiers and monsters. The day you accept your neighbour and stop your chauvinist mentality that Anatolia belongs to Greece, is the day you can make true peace.

Your Cyprus invasion, which supposedly was an exercise, when there was no government in office in Ellas?

There was a government, called the Colonels Junta.

Your continuing policies of ethnic cleansing, Bokzada(OPEN PRISON)? Istanpolis? Cyprus?

What about the ethnic cleansings of Muslim in Greece since 1821 and the murder of and rapings by the Greek army in Anatolia. There is enough dirt on both sides to throw at eachother. Relationship between Greece and Turkey doesnt have to be this way, a chauvinist duel were every inch of issue is used as a political and moral judgement that the others are antagonists.

The denial of the Fire of Smyrna? Which started when the Ellines had already left the coast?

Who started the fire is highly questionable, but what isnt questionable was that Izmir was invaded and occupied. The Greek army had no business there in the first place.
I you are so keen on ancient Greek culture learn the true meaning of the tragedy, that is misfortune created by your own fault:
On the Greeks' own responsibility for their misfortunes, he quoted approvingly an old Cretan saying: "The fate every people makes for itself, and the things its own madness does to it, are not things done by its enemies."

Your Anatolian theories about the Turks being the true Ellines, and the Ellines being Slavs?

They are not mine theories, they are theories by some author. And its just as retarded as Greek theories about Turks being Greek converts or of Mongolian origin or that Anatolia is occpied Greek land.

Your compatriots denial of the Ellinic History(see macedonia threads)?

I dont care about Greece's relationship with Macedonia or whatever you call them.

Htf do you expect a reasonable person to respond?

Please tell me, Jesus style, "turn the other cheek"?

So that what, get the clearing of being hate-free?

No dear Cid, things are not that simple.

Like I said scroll down and see who started what. When you play with fire, you will burn your fingers. This thread was about how chauvinistic conscience of history is preventing rapproachment, yet you brougth these bigoted views into here yourself, and dont start with others doing it also. Two wrongs dont make one right.

Anyway, i am very sorry for attacking you Cid, here personally today with all that ugly words.

Dont be sorry for me, be sorry for yourself and at yourself if you dont learn from it.

Edit: Spelling

[Cid]

double post

[noemon]

There are no sides, oblivion and truth only apply to yourself not others, to label others as such is nothing more then mental masturbation. There is on;y yourself to know.

False, when the truth is in regards to 2, it depends on the system. These disputed issues are disputed because they are 2 sides. One is correct the other is incorrect. One oblivion the other truth.

Telos.

BY now you had the chance to correct the oblivion of your Turkish propaganda but as i said already about your person you choose the other way.

And here we go again :

Let us see:

That is not what you said, it speaks for itself:

Clarify better in context of the continuation, what you say makes no sense, whatsoever, and whatever the case i am pretty sure that i have apologized already.

Greece and Turkey are not continuous at work, they just pretend to be and both are guilty for taking part in it. Turkish government finds it hard to except that its Airforce has to fill in flightplans to Athens FLIR if they want to fly over the Aegean for safety reasons. Greek government propagates Athens FLIR as Greek national airspace and makes machoistic dogfights shows for its public. All in all its chauvinism from both sides, nothing more. In fact military observers from both sides praise the dogfights because it proves realistic training. Too realistic as shown last year when a Greek pilot died. May he rest in peace, but fact is you have to blame the amateuristic foreign policy and the chuavinist sentiments at both sides, for not wanting to resolve it.

Do you hear yourself? The Turkish airforce jeopardizes the lives of the commercial flights by entering into the airspace continuously without providing its flight plans.


And we instead of shooting them down at sight, we try to push you out without firing arms(Nato forbids it), your Turk pilot the other time just landed his plane on top of the Ellina instead of moving out of the airspace. Because in the dogfighting the pusher goes underneath the other in order to push him out, the other can go out or simply land on the others head, and then eject safely. You gov is pathetic.

Was he life worth it? was his family worth it? just to prove a point to your public that you are the greatest military fuckers of the area?

Will you argue for it? Cid?

Please be my guest, but do not speak for hate and bigotry cause you are only preaching what you cannot comprehend.

Why do you speak in a collective manner, we have not seen anything, you have seen it according to your own judgement.

Ill ask you again:

Cid, tell me, Doomhammer trying to cover up the Pogrom, through the bomb.

Your state wanting to be in the EU without recognizing equal rights to the Ellines?

Your Cyprus invasion, which supposedly was an exercise, when there was no government in office in Ellas?

Your continuing policies of ethnic cleansing, Bokzada(OPEN PRISON)? Istanpolis? Cyprus?

The denial of the Fire of Smyrna? Which started when the Ellines had already left the coast?

Your Anatolian theories about the Turks being the true Ellines, and the Ellines being Slavs?

Your compatriots denial of the Ellinic History(see macedonia threads)?

Htf do you expect a reasonable person to respond?

Please tell me, Jesus style, "turn the other cheek"?

So that what, get the clearing of being hate-free?

Answer this HONESTLY if you really want to discuss.

That is not true, this thread was how biased chauvinist views there are on both sides of the aegean, and yet you bring those views into the discussion. You have braught in the fire and now play the victim. There is non but to blame yourself.

False, read the thread better, the fire came when your compatriot mentioned the Thessaloniki bomb and the "BUT", you got brains, at least read.

Very egocentric, how about other people who are unease about your rampage here.

Will you be running away from accepting the lies as already illustarted or will you keep on finding something to evade them?

But likewise it is wrong to use this to hate Turkey. There is a lott of Greek history in Turkey, but in the end it doesnt concern the Republic of Greece. The Anatolian Greek history and the Anatolian Greeks are 100% part of Turkey and the sooner you realise this the better. The American Republic exists for only 250 years and nobody refers them as occupiers, yet till this day after a 1000 years national Greeks still refer to the Turks as occupiers and monsters. The day you accept your neighbour and stop your chauvinist mentality that Anatolia belongs to Greece, is the day you can make true peace.

You are mixing apples with oranges again. Anatolia belongs to Turkey, the Anatolian History belongs to the people that PRODUCED IT and Turkey did not integrate to her society, it belongs to the people that produced it, and that is The Anatolian Yunanis, which are not part of Turkey, but part of Ellas, the sooner you realize that these are 2 different stories, the better.

Anatolia as a concept belongs to US, not to you, the only thing that belongs to you, is Anatolia the land, and the blood you spilled in order to save yourselves from these evil Anatolian Ellines.

There was a government, called the Colonels Junta.

False, there was internal disorder, revolution. The bulk of the offices were empty and the country was in Anarchy.

Back-stabbing celebrated.

What about the ethnic cleansings of Muslim in Greece since 1821 and the murder of and rapings by the Greek army in Anatolia. There is enough dirt on both sides to throw at eachother. Relationship between Greece and Turkey doesnt have to be this way, a chauvinist duel were every inch of issue is used as a political and moral judgement that the others are antagonists.

The Ellinic army was during OFFICIALLY WAR period, the Muslims that stayed, thrive as illustarted already. Or will you argue against it, as well?

Will you keep this attitude of yours, or shall i make things clear for you again?

Tell me.

You want sources that the Ellines never asssasinated the travelling Turks back home, observed and testifyed by every single observer, Bokzada turned into an Open Prison, the moment you took it back(PEACE TIME), the Pogrom(PEACE TIME), your illegal invasion in Cyprus(PEACE TIME), the death of our pilot 6 years ago(PEACE TIME), your illegal invasion in Imia in 1996.(PEACE TIME)

GREEK ARMY IN ANATOLIA(WAR TIME)

1821(WAR TIME)

Who started the fire is highly questionable, but what isnt questionable was the Izmir was invaded and occupied. The Greek army had no business their in the first place.

The Ellinic army was there under the orders of the major powers, and when the time came the major powers left their position and left the Greek army there in the open(The Russians, Italians and French even handed their weapons to you), and also the majority of the area was Ellinic-inhabited, and the World was at War a war which btw we won, the army was there to protect the Ellines of the area, which were indeed the majority. The point is that the Fire to stay on topic begun when the army had already evacuated the area, this is FACT, and arguing against it shows and verifies my point about the Turkish propaganda once again.

On the Greeks' own responsibility for their misfortunes, he quoted approvingly an old Cretan saying: "The fate every people makes for itself, and the things its own madness does to it, are not things done by its enemies."

Are you gonna be using that in conjuction with your brilliant argument "What about the Muslims in Ellas", and "what about the army during the War?"

Is that double standards, again?

The question is when will you realize that it is yourselves that should come to terms, not us, it is you that deny everything using pathetic and disgusting arguments to verify the point i am making tragically. Both that the Turks are fully propagated, and that even you is the same as your compatriots. Instead of saying to Doomhammer, wtf are talking about dude(see Thessaloniki bomb), instaed of slapping down Vanasalus for using his ultimately idiotic argument(muftis), you keep on playing their line verifying my point that even the moderate ones (ie YOU) are all the same.

And to make your point you are using the argument "we are all responsible for our fate".

Lets blame the Jews for what Hitler did to them. Is this what you are saying?

That they are solely responisble for the tragedies committed upon them?

You are misquoting Kazantzakis and Seferis, totally, this quote is for internal consumption, it is to make people move forward, not to supply with an argument the opposing side and justify the despicable persecutions. Get it through your head.

They are not mine theories, they are theories by some author. And its just as retarded as Greek theories about Turks being Greek converts or of Mongolian origin or that Anatolia is occpied Greek land.

Be more specific what Greek theories? tell us, what Greek state sponsored theory? Tell us, which theory taught for years in schools? Tell us, please. If you are unable to, then simply accept the despicability of your government.

Like I said scroll down and see who started what. When you play with fire, you will burn your fingers. This thread was about how chauvinistic conscience of history is preventing rapproachment, yet you brougth these bigoted views into here yourself, and dont start with others doing it also. Two wrongs dont make one right.

I was the first to appraise this article, and i was the first to correct the vomit of your compatriot when it is you who should have corrected him, because not only he represents the Turkish reality and consequently you as well, but this has dragged all of you, including yourself into actually arguing for the lies, when it is crystal clear from the sources, in regards to all the disputes that we have, that you side is ultimately false, in total Lethe.

If you deny it, i will simply repeat myself again, and we can go on forever, and then you can turn around telling me, that all these grave things were done because we are all responsible for our actions.

Learn your History Cid, and come to terms with it, do not deny it, because you are dragging your self further inside the rabbit's hole.

Answer this question Cid, what is your honest opinion on Vanasalus argument? What is your honest opinion on Doomhammers bomb argument? What is your opinion after the latest debates about Cyprus, what is your opinion on the Pogroms, what is your opinion on the open prison of Imvros?

Your honest opinion, not the despicable argument your government has supplied you with.

What is it dear Cid?

What? will you ever answer the question, or will you keep beautifying and evading?

And you know what even if you choose again to respond to the arguments every case independently you will verify, my point about the denial again, doesnt these TRUE events show to your logic that there is clear Turkish orchestration? We are not talking simply about one or 2 isolated events we are talking about continuing persecution, double-standards and crystal-clear lies, accompanied by pathetic argumentation.

They are on a timeline, they are a lot, and they are true, proven beyond any doubt, will you comment upon them, will you evade them? Will you further argue for the lies?

What is your next move, let us see.

Verify my point about your person, that you are all the same?

Or verify the true events and save yourself from the rabbits hole?

They is always a choice.

Choose.

Dont be sorry for me, be sorry for yourself and at yourself if you dont learn from it.

Always, the interesting question is, will you use my bad-temper to justify your bloody History?

Or will you not?

[Doomhammer]

False, when the truth is in regards to 2, it depends on the system. These disputed issues are disputed because they are 2 sides. One is correct the other is incorrect. One oblivion the other truth.

Your basic asumption that one side is correct and the other is false is nothing more a false dilemma, and thus a faulty argument. Since history is about our perception of the past and gains meaning through present discourse, it wouldn't suprise me that many things we know or believe to know are false (even without manipulation of facts for political purposes, history is still uncertain).

Answer this HONESTLY if you really want to discuss.

I think I already answered you that I mentioned that this issue (of the bomb) is still undetermined for some people and I merely pointed it out. I personally don't care. As for the pogrom, my psychological explanation is a possible interpretation for the reasons of this sad event. Yet you still insist on saying I'm a denialist (when infact I'm not denying anything and even expressing my disapproval of the Turks who did this). My whole point in that argument was that Kemalism wasn't responsible for the Istanbul Pogrom. Do you not understand?

Why are asking Cid about stuff I've said before? Why do you present it as an Anatolian theory (refering to you Greeks being mixed with Slavs)? How am I being evil and disrespectful when I say that most populations on this planet are mixed (especially in places under long periods of imperial control and in the presence of many different ethnicities in a given region)? For a well-adjusted person, being told that it is possible for his people to have some slavs as ancestors wouldn't bother him... I don't think you would make such a big deal out of it unless you saw Slavs as being inferior to Ellines.

False, there was internal disorder, revolution. The bulk of the offices were empty and the country was in Anarchy.

That's what you call it.

[Cid]

False, when the truth is in regards to 2, it depends on the system. These disputed issues are disputed because they are 2 sides. One is correct the other is incorrect. One oblivion the other truth.

Telos.

BY now you had the chance to correct the oblivion of your Turkish propaganda but as i said already about your person you choose the other way.

I am indeed in oblivion if I have the except the truth of your clouded mind.

That is not what you said, it speaks for itself:

Clarify better in context of the continuation, what you say makes no sense, whatsoever, and whatever the case i am pretty sure that i have apologized already.

It shows the inconsistency of your argumentation. First you claimed that I disrespected the name Ellas, then you claimed that you are perfectly at ease with using the word Greece.

And we instead of shooting them down at sight, we try to push you out without firing arms(Nato forbids it), your Turk pilot the other time just landed his plane on top of the Ellina instead of moving out of the airspace. Because in the dogfighting the pusher goes underneath the other in order to push him out, the other can go out or simply land on the others head, and then eject safely. You gov is pathetic.

Was he life worth it? was his family worth it? just to prove a point to your public that you are the greatest military fuckers of the area?

Will you argue for it? Cid?

First of all he put his own life in that danger. So in the afterlife ask him if it was worth it. Second of all, he crashed his plane into the plane he persuited. He was flying under the Turkish F16, in no way can the Turkish F16 know about the position or heading of the plane beneath him. The Greek pilot was 100% responsible, since he was able to see the position and heading of the plane above him. He crashed into the plane above him crushing his cockpit and thats his own fault.

Ill ask you again:

I have already answered you, you are just blind to see it until it confirms your sentimental clouded mind.

False, read the thread better, the fire came when your compatriot mentioned the Thessaloniki bomb and the "BUT", you got brains, at least read.

So your first claiming about Kemal Ataturk killing Jews and Greeks at sight isnt bigoted and pathetic.

Will you be running away from accepting the lies as already illustarted or will you keep on finding something to evade them?

Evade what? seriously you have evaded the entire thread about the subject. Rather then being a man and admitting the bigoted hateful and fear about the Turks that is imprinted into the collective chauvinist mind, you are just bashing showing how a wonderful product you are.

You are mixing apples with oranges again. Anatolia belongs to Turkey, the Anatolian History belongs to the people that PRODUCED IT and Turkey did not integrate to her society, it belongs to the people that produced it, and that is The Anatolian Yunanis, which are not part of Turkey, but part of Ellas, the sooner you realize that these are 2 different stories, the better.

Anatolia as a concept belongs to US, not to you, the only thing that belongs to you, is Anatolia the land, and the blood you spilled in order to save yourselves from these evil Anatolian Ellines.

The culture of Anatolia is multicultural and every aspect of it belongs to Turkey. Greeks of Anatolian heritage may relate with it, but it relates nothing to Greece.

There was a government, called the Colonels Junta.


False, there was internal disorder, revolution. The bulk of the offices were empty and the country was in Anarchy.

Back-stabbing celebrated.

Learn your own countries history before you attempt to lecture about the history of others:
"The Fall of the junta and the Restoration of Democracy

The Cyprus fiasco led to senior Greek military officers withdrawing their support for Junta strongman Brigadier Dimitrios Ioannides. Junta-appointed President Phaedon Gizikis called a meeting of old guard politicians, including Panagiotis Kanellopoulos, Spiros Markezinis, Stephanos Stephanopoulos, Evangelos Averoff, and others.

The agenda was to appoint a national unity government that would lead the country to elections. Although former Prime Minister Panagiotis Kanellopoulos was originally backed, Gizikis finally invited former Prime Minister Constantine Karamanlis, who had resided in Paris since 1963, to assume the role. Karamanlis returned to Athens on a French Presidency Lear Jet made available to him by President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, a close personal friend, and was sworn-in as Prime Minister under President Phaedon Gizikis. Karamanlis' new party, New Democracy, won the November 1974 general election, and he remained prime minister.

Parliamentary democracy was thus restored, and the Greek legislative elections of 1974 were the first free elections held in a decade.

While the physical collapse of the junta as a government was immediately caused by the Cyprus debacle, its ideological collapse was triggered by the 1973 Athens Polytechnic uprising. The uprising at the Polytechneion was the event that discredited the military government most and acted as a key catalyst for its eventual demise by exposing the internal contradictions and stresses of the regime thus destroying the myth of the political cohesion of the junta and, therefore, irreparably damaging the political credibility of the "Ethnosotirios Epanastasis" and its message."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_mili ... _1967-1974

What about the ethnic cleansings of Muslim in Greece since 1821 and the murder of and rapings by the Greek army in Anatolia. There is enough dirt on both sides to throw at eachother. Relationship between Greece and Turkey doesnt have to be this way, a chauvinist duel were every inch of issue is used as a political and moral judgement that the others are antagonists.

The Ellinic army was during OFFICIALLY WAR period, the Muslims that stayed, thrive as illustarted already. Or will you argue against it, as well?

Will you keep this attitude of yours, or shall i make things clear for you again?

You are not making anything clear, you are just throwing with dirt to confirm with your bigoted views. Very smart excuse with, "It was war period". You excuse your own actions with war period but condemn others with genocide. Look in mirror to see your hypocrisy.

You want sources that the Ellines never asssasinated the travelling Turks back home, observed and testifyed by every single observer, Bokzada turned into an Open Prison, the moment you took it back(PEACE TIME), the Pogrom(PEACE TIME),

Relates nothing with Greece, besides the country was in a political turmoil.

your illegal invasion in Cyprus(PEACE TIME),

There was coup going on, orchestrated by the junta in Athens and the was communal civil war going on ever since it became independent, hardly a peace.

the death of our pilot 6 years ago(PEACE TIME),

He died last year and it was his own error.

your illegal invasion in Imia in 1996.(PEACE TIME)

LOL invasion, more like a chauvinistic play between both governments.

GREEK ARMY IN ANATOLIA(WAR TIME)

So that is your excuse for the raping and murder by the Greek army on civilians.

1821(WAR TIME)

So that is your excuse for ethnic cleaning of Greece from its muslim inhabitants.

Who started the fire is highly questionable, but what isnt questionable was the Izmir was invaded and occupied. The Greek army had no business their in the first place.

The Ellinic army was there under the orders of the major powers, and when the time came the major powers left their position and left the Greek army there in the open(The Russians, Italians and French even handed their weapons to you), and also the majority of the area was Ellinic-inhabited, and the World was at War a war which btw we won, the army was there to protect the Ellines of the area, which were indeed the majority. The point is that the Fire to stay on topic begun when the army had already evacuated the area, this is FACT, and arguing against it shows and verifies my point about the Turkish propaganda once again.

LOL, so the Greek government wasnt propelled by the Megali Idea, to build a Greater Greece in the east, they were just obeying the allies like a dog and were victims of it? You dont question that you didnt have any business there, but keep nagging about a controversial issue like Izmir, like I said. So what if it burned, the Greek army had no business there.

On the Greeks' own responsibility for their misfortunes, he quoted approvingly an old Cretan saying: "The fate every people makes for itself, and the things its own madness does to it, are not things done by its enemies."

Are you gonna be using that in conjuction with your brilliant argument "What about the Muslims in Ellas", and "what about the army during the War?"

Is that double standards, again?

It is not double standards, it is equal standards, I did the same what you did, to make you be aware of your dirt throwing to apologize for your bigoted and hateful views on the Turks. If you want to make peace, release yourself of these hateful views, accept your history. Only then you can make peace.

The question is when will you realize that it is yourselves that should come to terms, not us, it is you that deny everything using pathetic and disgusting arguments to verify the point i am making tragically. Both that the Turks are fully propagated, and that even you is the same as your compatriots. Instead of saying to Doomhammer, wtf are talking about dude(see Thessaloniki bomb), instaed of slapping down Vanasalus for using his ultimately idiotic argument(muftis), you keep on playing their line verifying my point that even the moderate ones (ie YOU) are all the same.

It is not me failing for your unrealistic expectations, it is you eager to find excuse and claim all Turks are the same confirming you bigotry.

And to make your point you are using the argument "we are all responsible for our fate".

Lets blame the Jews for what Hitler did to them. Is this what you are saying?

That they are solely responsible for the tragedies committed upon them?

You are either comparing the Greeks to the Jews of the holocaust or the Turks to the Nazi's, how pathetic. You fail with your moral argument.

You are misquoting Kazantzakis and Seferis, totally, this quote is for internal consumption, it is to make people move forward, not to supply with an argument the opposing side and justify the despicable persecutions. Get it through your head.

I am not misquoting the words, you are wrongly applying its content. It precisely says to move forward, but you are doing non of such, rather yu excuse current situation by making arguments on how morally and historically wrong the Turks have been, just to confirm it with your bigoted ideas and excuse yourself from making progress.

Be more specific what Greek theories? tell us, what Greek state sponsored theory? Tell us, which theory taught for years in schools? Tell us, please. If you are unable to, then simply accept the despicability of your government.

They are not State sponsored, it is the argument Greeks use when confronting Turks. But what is state sponsored and much worse then some theory is the Greek education which teaches childeren that nothing good comes from Turks:


Softening of "bad Turks" image in school textbooks sparks outcry in Greece
Monday , 02 April 2007

Moves to prepare 6th grade Greek history textbooks which present a more positive image of Turks than in the past have caused controversy in Greece.
Speaking about the preparations underway to make additions and/or extractions from the current textbooks, Greek National Education Council President Professor Veremis said "I do not understand why we have always portrayed Turks as monsters. Why do we not explain our own excesses in Anatolia?"

The Greek government has in fact taken a step backwards, due to sharp public reaction, to its original plans to "soften" the image of Turks presented in elementary school textbooks. National Education Minister Marieatta Yianaku has said that experts will examine the books, and will make additions or extractions if deemed necessary. Professor Veremis, a well-known Greek intellectual, talked more about the portrayal of Turks as what he characterized as "monsters," noting "If all Turks were monsters, monsters kill eachother. And the Ottoman empire lived on for hundreds of years." Veremis also cast light on Greek failure to discuss their own warfare, talking about the Greek invasion of Tripoli and how the city was reduced to rubble "There are monsters everywhere. Are we forgetting what we did? Why don't we talk about the excesses we carried out in Asia Minor?"
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=43947

Like I said scroll down and see who started what. When you play with fire, you will burn your fingers. This thread was about how chauvinistic conscience of history is preventing rapproachment, yet you brougth these bigoted views into here yourself, and dont start with others doing it also. Two wrongs dont make one right.

I was the first to appraise this article, and i was the first to correct the vomit of your compatriot when it is you who should have corrected him, because not only he represents the Turkish reality and consequently you as well, but this has dragged all of you, including yourself into actually arguing for the lies, when it is crystal clear from the sources, in regards to all the disputes that we have, that you side is ultimately false, in total Lethe.

Who cares if Doomhammer brought in first, does that excuse you for bringing in vommit. When I make a counter argument it is a lie? And when you make a counter argument it is a fact? Seriously grow up, open you mind. And if "my side" is ultimately wrong as you frase it, why this compulsive behavior to react against me and others. Are you so keen on a mental masturbation, or do you seek affirmation of your bigoted distorted mind.

If you deny it, i will simply repeat myself again, and we can go on forever, and then you can turn around telling me, that all these grave things were done because we are all responsible for our actions.

I have noticed you are a broken record

Learn your History Cid, and come to terms with it, do not deny it, because you are dragging your self further inside the rabbit's hole.

You have already sunken deep in a rabbit hole, and I am not get to your low level. Get rid of your clouded mind, it will sure cure your compulsive behavior.

Answer this question Cid, what is your honest opinion on Vanasalus argument? What is your honest opinion on Doomhammers bomb argument? What is your opinion after the latest debates about Cyprus, what is your opinion on the Pogroms, what is your opinion on the open prison of Imvros?

Your honest opinion, not the despicable argument your government has supplied you with.

Even if I give you an answer a 100 times, it is of no use since you are deaf and blind. Make peace with your history instead of asking others to make it for you.

What? will you ever answer the question, or will you keep beautifying and evading?

And you know what even if you choose again to respond to the arguments every case independently you will verify, my point about the denial again, doesnt these TRUE events show to your logic that there is clear Turkish orchestration? We are not talking simply about one or 2 isolated events we are talking about continuing persecution, double-standards and crystal-clear lies, accompanied by pathetic argumentation.

Just like you have fragmented my posts and argument independently. Yeah it is all Turkish orchestration, the Philharmonic Turca Satanica. Decieve yourself, it must be much better how it is now. Liberate yourself of your guilt sentiments instead of smearing it on others.

What is your next move, let us see.

Why dont you move to a shrink and ask to get rid of that plural talk of yours.

Verify my point about your person, that you are all the same?

Verify yourself about your bigoted ideas.

Or verify the true events and save yourself from the rabbits hole?

They is always a choice.

Choose.

Choose yourself, liberate yourself of these hateful views, accept your history. Only then you can make peace.

Dont be sorry for me, be sorry for yourself and at yourself if you dont learn from it.

Always, the interesting question is, will you use my bad-temper to justify your bloody History?

Or will you not?

Your bad temper and the writings justify nothing, they only show your biggoted views based on hate and fear of the Turk, just like the original subject of this thread that you have massively evading.

You hade made a fool of yourself, flaming all over the topic and showing nothing but that you deceive yourself in order to excuse your hateful views and bigotry, rather then to discuss the topic like free man.

[noemon]

This Doomhammer:

Your basic asumption that one side is correct and the other is false is nothing more a false dilemma, and thus a faulty argument. Since history is about our perception of the past and gains meaning through present discourse, it wouldn't suprise me that many things we know or believe to know are false (even without manipulation of facts for political purposes, history is still uncertain).

This is ultimately false. There is no grey, there is only grey perception, not grey phenomeno.

Example, If i call somebody an asshole.

Then:

It is true that I called somebody an asshole.

If i kill somebody, then---> it is true that i killed somebody.

The Turkish office persecutes the Ellines, it is true that the Turkish office persecutes the Ellines.

The Turkish office propagates its public with ridiculous arguments--->It is true that the Turkish office propagates its public with ridiculous, pathetic and disgusting arguments.

History is not based on perception as many people like to say. History is based on facts. Herodotus does not base his History on facts but on information received and served without cross-referencing, but Herodotus makes the disclaimer and tells you: "hey dude, this might be and might not be true i am just reporting to you only what i heard, not what i believe its true or what is universally true, i am simply a narrator of opinions, attitudes and things i see or hear in front of me."

On the other hand, Plutarch gives only substantiated reports with what we Greeks call as tekmirion=evidence, proof.

And facts come through the axiomatic method, 2 lines, the Hypothesis, 1 "if this"-->true(alethe) the other "If not" true(lethe) this, and these 2 lines produce 4 suppositions, the tetartimoria(4's). Graphically, this is the X, Y axis.

However it is true that History has been abused, and its difficult to distinguish between Herodotus style and Plutarch's style of narration, that does not mean however that truth does not exist. It always depends on many variables, available information

I think I already answered you that I mentioned that this issue (of the bomb) is still undetermined for some people and I merely pointed it out. I personally don't care. As for the pogrom, my psychological explanation is a possible interpretation for the reasons of this sad event. Yet you still insist on saying I'm a denialist (when infact I'm not denying anything and even expressing my disapproval of the Turks who did this). My whole point in that argument was that Kemalism wasn't responsible for the Istanbul Pogrom. Do you not understand?

Listen mate, you aimed to justify the "unfortunate" Pogrom with your "but" that referred to the Thessaloniki bomb, you can dance, twist and turn, fact is you did it. Unless you are totally illiterate.

Why are asking Cid about stuff I've said before? Why do you present it as an Anatolian theory (refering to you Greeks being mixed with Slavs)? How am I being evil and disrespectful when I say that most populations on this planet are mixed (especially in places under long periods of imperial control and in the presence of many different ethnicities in a given region)? For a well-adjusted person, being told that it is possible for his people to have some slavs as ancestors wouldn't bother him...

Let us see what Cid, has to say about the respective event.

Also,i have stated the same thing over and over again, do not play stupid. All nations are mixed, no shit sherlock, but there is something called ethnic-identity, cultural anthropology, i have analyzed these things many times in the past. The point am trying to make and you so try to escape is the theories that the Turks were taught at school classrooms funded and sponsored by the State, that the Turks are in fact the real Anatolians-Ellines, and that the Ellines are not really Greeks but brainwashed Slavs. This in conjunction with the grievances: Pogrom, Imvros, Smyrni, Pontos, Cyprus, Imia, The Pilot, just on this century alone, on the previous centuries, blood taxing our children. This is crystal clear evidence that the Turkish administration is despicable, pathetic and disgusting. No matter how much you deny one of them, or consider these, matters of perception, or whatever bullshit comes to mouth, you will only prove your inability to face the facts like a man, and also you will also prove the fact that the Turks, even the supposedly open-minded moderate ones, are propagated to the bone, even today.

And the Turkish arguments against these facts:

The Greeks are brainwashed too, without even daring to say where are they exactly brainwashed.

The Greeks killed us too during the War, ofc you forgot that it was during the War while all the grievances i mentioned were during PEACE.

The Greeks appointed 2 muftis in contrast to Greek law that they are supposedly democratically elected and that is why we do not allow the Ecumenical Patriarch of Christianity to not be a Turkish national.

Is that all the vomit you got to say in regards to this ULTIMATELY TRUE EVENTS:

Smyrna-Pontos-Imvros-Pogrom-Cyprus-Imia-Pilot-Ecumenical Patriarch-Theological School of Halki-Banning of Greek property rights-Turkish Pathetic Arguments here and now today?

Even if you brake them down and decide to treat them one by one, with faulty assumptions-ad hominem and changing the subject, the point that is a timely orchestrated attempt conducted by your disgusting Kemalist-despicable system, will not change. It will change only when you as a citizen realize that and pursue its change.

Your denialism shows and proves blatantly that you have no will to pursue any change in your state of mind, but simply continuing to neglecting, established facts in order to justify your being as a Turk and ofc consequently justify the crimes in order not to lose any face in front of your e-friends on an internet forum.

Keep up the good job.

I don't think you would make such a big deal out of it unless you saw Slavs as being inferior to Ellines.

Your ludicrous assumptions are only going to worsen your case. Because this time am not gonna allow anything to drop on the floor. Keep on amusing me, and twisting and turning my words...when in fact i have written whole paragraphs in here regarding the issue, stating , explaining and reasoning perfectly clear my thesis, on the Ellinic ethnos and genos, and the intermixing that have gone through the centuries.

That is why cultural anthropology is leading, and that is why you will never capitalize on the fact that Anatolia the land belongs to you, and consequently its history too, because culturally anthropologically we are the Yunanis, and you are the Turks.

[Vanasalus]

The Greeks appointed 2 muftis in contrast to Greek law that they are supposedly democratically elected and that is why we do not allow the Ecumenical Patriarch of Christianity to not be a Turkish national.

Drum is still banging.

Both the religious rights of Turks in Greece (according to Greek state, it is "Muslim" minority, since Greece does not let Turks call themselves Turks in Greece) as well as religious rights of Greek minority of the Turkey are described by Lausanne treaty (the treaty, that you persistently trying to forget; not surprising at all: the kick on your ass must be still hurting… At least for you…)

According to Lausanne, religious leaders of both minorities must be elected by their own “constituencies”. And, again according to Lausanne, both the patriarch of Istanbul and the grand mufti of Greece must be citizens of the countries, they live in.

It’s been almost 90 years since Lausanne; get over it.

[noemon]

I am indeed in oblivion if I have the except the truth of your clouded mind.

Lets us do it once again:

Smyrna-pontos-Imvros and Tenedos-Pogrom-School propaganda funded by your State-Imia-Pilot.

Will you continue justifying these events are will you accept them?

Oblivion, Denial or Truth?

Up until now, you have a very bad record and your philosophical preachings are void in regards to your person.

It shows the inconsistency of your argumentation. First you claimed that I disrespected the name Ellas, then you claimed that you are perfectly at ease with using the word Greece.

FALSE i clarified from Day ONE, Greece is not disrespectful in no way. Ellas is more appropriate because it refers to the whole ethnos. And as stated my offering was purely symbolic. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. AD Hominem assumptions are the least amusing.

First of all he put his own life in that danger. So in the afterlife ask him if it was worth it. Second of all, he crashed his plane into the plane he persuited. He was flying under the Turkish F16, in no way can the Turkish F16 know about the position or heading of the plane beneath him. The Greek pilot was 100% responsible, since he was able to see the position and heading of the plane above him. He crashed into the plane above him crushing his cockpit and thats his own fault.

What on earth are you babbling?

Did you just aim to justify the murderer?

Well done. You have just proven all my accusations against your personality, and against your disgusting government.

I have already answered you, you are just blind to see it until it confirms your sentimental clouded mind.

Show us the cloud?

Which event mentioned is not true? Where are your sources? And even if you manage to convince a dumasss in here that one of the events is exaggerated or whatever, will that change the conclusion? That there is Turkish orchestration and ultimate propaganda? You have given too much credit in yourself.

So your first claiming about Kemal Ataturk killing Jews and Greeks at sight isnt bigoted and pathetic.

I verified it when i posted my Pogrom sources. I didnt say Kemal himself, but the Kemalist regime which is the current and the past century's Turkish regime. Is it true, YES IT IS.

Do you have any sources arguing otherwise. I do not think so. So, either accept it like a human being or fall into this disgusting circular oblivion. Your choice.

Evade what? seriously you have evaded the entire thread about the subject. Rather then being a man and admitting the bigoted hateful and fear about the Turks that is imprinted into the collective chauvinist mind, you are just bashing showing how a wonderful product you are.

Instead of spitting vomit up in the air, you can always project to where i have made faulty assumption, where have i denied something, and where have i not apologized for my temper, whose source has been more than obvious.

Again if you have anything left inside your mind:

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON DOOMHAMMERS BOMB ARGUMENT?

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON VANASALUS MUFTI ARGUMENT?

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON THE DEATH OF THE PILOT?

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON THE PROPAGANDA THEY HAVE BEEN FEEDING YOU?

WHAT IS IT?

WILL YOU ANSWER OR EVADE AGAIN?

The culture of Anatolia is multicultural and every aspect of it belongs to Turkey. Greeks of Anatolian heritage may relate with it, but it relates nothing to Greece.

FALSE, the culture of the Ionians in Anatolia, belongs to the Ionians, nobody else, only to them, and that is ELLAS AND THE ELLINES, and nothing not even remotely similar to anything Turkish. The brilliant Anatolian culture of the Ellines of Anatolia belongs to the Ellines, and nobody else, anything opposite is cultural despicable usurpation and blatant stealing and propaganda. If you wanted to have a piece of that pie of History you could have integrated these people in to your society instead of ethnically cleanse them.

Now not only you killed them all, but you dare to usurp their cultural achievements as well? This is even more disgusting and despicable.

Learn your own countries history before you attempt to lecture about the history of others:
"The Fall of the junta and the Restoration of Democracy

The Cyprus fiasco led to senior Greek military officers withdrawing their support for Junta strongman Brigadier Dimitrios Ioannides. Junta-appointed President Phaedon Gizikis called a meeting of old guard politicians, including Panagiotis Kanellopoulos, Spiros Markezinis, Stephanos Stephanopoulos, Evangelos Averoff, and others.

The agenda was to appoint a national unity government that would lead the country to elections. Although former Prime Minister Panagiotis Kanellopoulos was originally backed, Gizikis finally invited former Prime Minister Constantine Karamanlis, who had resided in Paris since 1963, to assume the role. Karamanlis returned to Athens on a French Presidency Lear Jet made available to him by President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, a close personal friend, and was sworn-in as Prime Minister under President Phaedon Gizikis. Karamanlis' new party, New Democracy, won the November 1974 general election, and he remained prime minister.

You think that you can teach me my own History when you are even unable to read and comprehend the articles you post?

The closing paragraph says it all unless you are illiterate.:

While the physical collapse of the junta as a government was immediately caused by the Cyprus debacle, its ideological collapse was triggered by the 1973 Athens Polytechnic uprising. The uprising at the Polytechneion was the event that discredited the military government most and acted as a key catalyst for its eventual demise by exposing the internal contradictions and stresses of the regime thus destroying the myth of the political cohesion of the junta and, therefore, irreparably damaging the political credibility of the "Ethnosotirios Epanastasis" and its message."

A year before the Cyprus event the uprising had started and the country was in total anarchy. Ministers were coming and going, utter confusion, war on the streets, murdering students. Total anarchy. That is when you invaded.

You are not making anything clear, you are just throwing with dirt to confirm with your bigoted views. Very smart excuse with, "It was war period". You excuse your own actions with war period but condemn others with genocide. Look in mirror to see your hypocrisy.

Is this another attempt to convince the others that our sheets are as dirty as yours?

Let me repeat:

Pogrom-Imia-Imvros-Cyprus-Pilot During PEACE PERIOD.

Doesnt that hold any value? In your world or do you mean to say that peace crimes and war crimes are all the same, morally? In War there is no crime except for the crimes as stated by the Hague tribunal, torture, assassination of citizens, and the rest, do you have any evidence that we committed WAR-CRIMES during WAR?

On the other hand i have evidence that you(Turkey) committed both War-Crimes and Crimes during Peace.

Relates nothing with Greece, besides the country was in a political turmoil.

What is this? An attempt to show you got an answer? Sorry this is the real world. And in the real world, murderers rot in Hell, their lawyers go even further according to Dante.

There was coup going on, orchestrated by the junta in Athens and the was communal civil war going on ever since it became independent, hardly a peace.

Your Cypriot debates have all failed, do not make me bring them into this thread.

He died last year and it was his own error.

False, he died in 1999, unless there was another that i am not aware of. His own error? His own error that you enter our FIR without supplying any notification, his own error following International Law that states that any fucker who jeopardizes the lives of citizens and tourists by entering the FIR illegally must be thrown out of the airspace before one causes the deaths of innocent civilians? His own error following legal protocol into a move that both of them have conducted some million of times.

To make it clear: Every-time you enter our airspace, you jeopardize the lives of tourists and civilians, and we are forced to throw you out immediately, to do that, we have to come underneath your aircrafts and push you out, of the airspace, this is standards procedure. Your murderers can choose to leave the airspace, or simply land on top of our aircrafts, that Turkish motherfucker chose the second.

Will you continue arguing for the murders or do you actually have a human side too?

LOL invasion, more like a chauvinistic play between both governments.

Yeah we can play on semantics as well. Fact is you invaded Imia, crystal-clearly and the dead troops have families too.

So that is your excuse for the raping and murder by the Greek army on civilians.

Give me official proof that the Greek army raped and killed civilians, and i will accept it and apologize. I am not a Turk.

So that is your excuse for ethnic cleaning of Greece from its muslim inhabitants.

Give me official proof of ethnic cleansing of civilians.
And i will accept it, I am not a Turk, i repeat.

It is not double standards, it is equal standards, I did the same what you did, to make you be aware of your dirt throwing to apologize for your bigoted and hateful views on the Turks. If you want to make peace, release yourself of these hateful views, accept your history. Only then you can make peace.

I have not denied anything. Only your side has. Will you keep the para myth floating or will you come down to earth?

It is not me failing for your unrealistic expectations, it is you eager to find excuse and claim all Turks are the same confirming you bigotry.

You have confirmed it yourself, i do nothing to you, i simply point out your relevance.

You are either comparing the Greeks to the Jews of the holocaust or the Turks to the Nazi's, how pathetic. You fail with your moral argument.

YA, clarify cause this is gonna be more amusing.

You said that all people are responsible for their grievances.

Do you separate the Jews as being more special than the Greeks? And that this does not apply to them because they are somehow special, and you consider the Greeks as more inferior to them as humans, and the Greek grievance is not of an equal weight?

And something else, as stated the Jew grievance was by Hitler who was inspired by you, and who was once and out. Your persecutions are even greater cause they are continuous, and you keep verifying my point that all Turks are the same.

I am not misquoting the words, you are wrongly applying its content. It precisely says to move forward, but you are doing non of such, rather yu excuse current situation by making arguments on how morally and historically wrong the Turks have been, just to confirm it with your bigoted ideas and excuse yourself from making progress.

To make progress you have to accept the past, something that you are not willing to do, even though the evidence have outweighed totally all your disgusting arguments.

They are not State sponsored, it is the argument Greeks use when confronting Turks. But what is state sponsored and much worse then some theory is the Greek education which teaches childeren that nothing good comes from Turks:


Softening of "bad Turks" image in school textbooks sparks outcry in Greece
Monday , 02 April 2007

Moves to prepare 6th grade Greek history textbooks which present a more positive image of Turks than in the past have caused controversy in Greece.
Speaking about the preparations underway to make additions and/or extractions from the current textbooks, Greek National Education Council President Professor Veremis said "I do not understand why we have always portrayed Turks as monsters. Why do we not explain our own excesses in Anatolia?"

The Greek government has in fact taken a step backwards, due to sharp public reaction, to its original plans to "soften" the image of Turks presented in elementary school textbooks. National Education Minister Marieatta Yianaku has said that experts will examine the books, and will make additions or extractions if deemed necessary. Professor Veremis, a well-known Greek intellectual, talked more about the portrayal of Turks as what he characterized as "monsters," noting "If all Turks were monsters, monsters kill eachother. And the Ottoman empire lived on for hundreds of years." Veremis also cast light on Greek failure to discuss their own warfare, talking about the Greek invasion of Tripoli and how the city was reduced to rubble "There are monsters everywhere. Are we forgetting what we did? Why don't we talk about the excesses we carried out in Asia Minor?"
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=43947

You seriously think that you have a reply for everything don't you?

Your quote only proves my point, and destroys yours. In Greece there is actual discussion and softening of the portrayal of Turkey by the Minister of Education himself. On the point i made and you evaded with ad-hominem again is:
On the other hand we have some young Turks boys and girls in here that keep on justifying the murders. And you actaully believe that you can also compare our society with yours? in any case, again:

I have proof that your government state-sponsors propaganda in regards to Anatolia.

Do you have any proof that Greece does the same?

If you do not simply stay silent, cause i am not going to allow to any "point" of yours to come through. None.

As you can see the Greeks have no fear in discussing out in the open whatever crime they might have committed. On the contrary it is a criminal offense to even mention such things in Turkey.

Apples with oranges again, you are comparing?

Who cares if Doomhammer brought in first, does that excuse you for bringing in vommit. When I make a counter argument it is a lie? And when you make a counter argument it is a fact? Seriously grow up, open you mind. And if "my side" is ultimately wrong as you frase it, why this compulsive behavior to react against me and others. Are you so keen on a mental masturbation, or do you seek affirmation of your bigoted distorted mind.

Will you ever post your honest opinion, or will you keep this game of yours? What is your opinion on Doomhammer's bomb argument? Say it and end this story, Go ahead.

This time, nothing will drop on the floor. Promise.

I have noticed you are a broken record

Completely beyond the point, and irrelevant ,as i said i will keep on going in here, until you come out of the closet.

You have already sunken deep in a rabbit hole, and I am not get to your low level. Get rid of your clouded mind, it will sure cure your compulsive behavior.

Same shite, arent you tired already repeating the same crap over and over again? Your accusations serve no purpose and none at all, they do not come through, get it through your head.

Even if I give you an answer a 100 times, it is of no use since you are deaf and blind. Make peace with your history instead of asking others to make it for you.

Only once will do the job.

Just like you have fragmented my posts and argument independently. Yeah it is all Turkish orchestration, the Philharmonic Turca Satanica. Decieve yourself, it must be much better how it is now. Liberate yourself of your guilt sentiments instead of smearing it on others.

Pure sentimental vomit again. Will you post your honest opinion on the questions posed or will you not?

Your bad temper and the writings justify nothing, they only show your biggoted views based on hate and fear of the Turk, just like the original subject of this thread that you have massively evading.

You hade made a fool of yourself, flaming all over the topic and showing nothing but that you deceive yourself in order to excuse your hateful views and bigotry, rather then to discuss the topic like free man.

You keep on pressing the same shite over and over again, its ok, it goes to show your intellectual capacity.

Is that all?

I HAVE ALREADY AGREED WITH THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE, and not just but also even before you bring the article over here, i was the first to pursue the point of the article.

And this article is Greek in case you haven't noticed. We make moves toward friendship, but under no means will we suppress our History in order to make friends. You keep on pressing your denialism acceleratingly, you keep on using Greek sources and attitudes to prove your point about moving forward and you keep on denying the crimes of your pathetic regime.

And this time is the last i reply to your pitiful arguments. Next time i will write about the whole discussion, point by point, step by step, one by one, and their frequencies.

[noemon]

Drum is still banging.

Both the religious rights of Turks in Greece (according to Greek state, it is "Muslim" minority, since Greece does not let Turks call themselves Turks in Greece) as well as religious rights of Greek minority of the Turkey are described by Lausanne treaty (the treaty, that you persistently trying to forget; not surprising at all: the kick on your ass must be still hurting… At least for you…)

According to Lausanne, religious leaders of both minorities must be elected by their own “constituencies”. And, again according to Lausanne, both the patriarch of Istanbul and the grand mufti of Greece must be citizens of the countries, they live in.

It’s been almost 90 years since Lausanne; get over it.

Your disgust is mind-bending obviously.

The Treaty says that Imvros and Tenedos, and Istanpolis Minorities to be respected and treated equally.

They were in contrast destroyed through Imvros was turned in to an open prison, Istanpolis through the Pogrom.

On the other hand the same treaty called for the respect of the Muslims in Greece, they were respected, they are still there, nobody denies them anything, and this is FAct cause their organization for Human Rights is registered under the the name Turkish Organization whatever for Human Rights.

Wtf are comparing Turk? Wtf? are you that stupid or are you simply illiterate?

The muftis in Greece are elected democratically, the Muftis in Turkey are appointed by the State, we did once appoint them, on the pretext that you do the same for ever and ever and you dare accuse of what? Of something that we have been to court and payed for it? What is your point Turk? That we are the same as you? You fail Turk, cause simply we are different, and this has nothing to do with race or whatever you might invent, this has to do with culture and education.

We are not animals, we are Humans, we are not lawyers of murderers.

P.S.:
And something else:

I think its time for the summary of this discussion, point by point, source by source and your despicable argumentation and its frequency, please add some more amusing material to be used. When i find some more time and space, i will deal with you people for good and once and for all, cause at it seems, you will simply play stupid until the end of time.

[Doomhammer]

There is no grey, there is only grey perception, not grey phenomeno.

Yes, that is precisely what I was trying to tell you.

However it is true that History has been abused, and its difficult to distinguish between Herodotus style and Plutarch's style of narration, that does not mean however that truth does not exist. It always depends on many variables, available information

Excatly. The truth exists but in many cases, we can't see it. Which is why I'm suspicious of such kinds of claims that a is right and thus b is wrong and vice versa (even with facts for facts may be used out of context, manipulated or even ignored).

Listen mate, you aimed to justify the "unfortunate"
Pogrom with your "but" that referred to the Thessaloniki bomb, you can dance, twist and turn, fact is you did it.

I'm arguing that this and other (psychological) factors led to the Pogrom. I'm not trying to friggin justify it, I'm merely offering a (possible) logical explanation. You just want to maintain that "anti-Greek, evil, disagreeable, disgusting" perception of me that you hold.

... and FYI, I am, actually, capable of feeling empathy towards victims.

Unless you are totally illiterate.

Would you even say that if I hadn't called you "illiterate"?

Who cares if Doomhammer brought in first, does that excuse you for bringing in vommit.

It was to show that Turkey's supposed ideology (the one we, apparantly, have been pursuing consistently and persistently since 1923) "Kemalism" and Ataturk aren't responsible for the "unfortunate" (I'll quote unfortunate, since noemon thinks it's mock-sympathy) attacks on the Greeks and Jews.

The point am trying to make and you so try to escape is the theories that the Turks were taught at school classrooms funded and sponsored by the State, that the Turks are in fact the real Anatolians-Ellines, and that the Ellines are not really Greeks but brainwashed Slavs.

I can't argue because I don't know anything about that. I've spent very little of my academic life in Turkey. Sounds like a paranoid dellusion though.

This in conjunction with the grievances: Pogrom, Imvros, Smyrni, Pontos, Cyprus, Imia, The Pilot, just on this century alone, on the previous centuries, blood taxing our children.

This is crystal clear evidence that the Turkish administration is despicable,

Where is the evidence?

you will only prove your inability to face the facts like a man,

Look who's talking.

prove the fact that the Turks, even the supposedly open-minded moderate ones, are propagated to the bone, even today.

And yourself?

Even if you brake them down and decide to treat them one by one, with faulty assumptions-ad hominem and changing the subject

Do you actually proof-read what you right?

attempt conducted by your disgusting Kemalist-despicable system

And why do you insist on the fact that Turkey has been, consistently, pursuing Kemalism (and all of its aspects) in the past 80 years?

Keep on amusing me, and twisting and turning my words

It is funny of you to say that since that is all you seem capable of doing in threads.



[/b]

[noemon]

Would you even say that if I hadn't called you "illiterate"?

You called me illiterate when you failed to understand your own words and the meaning of the usage of the term "but".

It was only natural.

It was to show that Turkey's supposed ideology (the one we, apparantly, have been pursuing consistently and persistently since 1923) "Kemalism" and Ataturk aren't responsible for the "unfortunate" (I'll quote unfortunate, since noemon thinks it's mock-sympathy) attacks on the Greeks and Jews.

And how did you show that?

Where is the evidence?

The previous page, do you want me to post it again or are you kind enough to scroll back?

Look who's talking.

And yourself?

Show me something that i have been confronted with and not accepted immediately?

And why do you insist on the fact that Turkey has been, consistently, pursuing Kemalism (and all of its aspects) in the past 80 years?

Look Doom, i dont care if its Kemalism or whatever, all i know is that past 80 7years your Governement has consiostently persecuted the Greek people. This is a fact, whether you like it or not, or whether Kemal is responsible or not.

Again:

Smyrna-Pontos-Imvros-Pogrom-Cyprus-Imia-Pilot. 80 year time frame factual events.

It is funny of you to say that since that is all you seem capable of doing in threads.

Tonight am actually a bit tired to continue, tomorrow we shall analyze the argumentation piece by piece and observe if this accusation shall hold any weight, and we shall do so using the axiom.