[Tim]

Hi

Britain has gone through a split on the Right as of late, something odd in a country with a first past the post election system.

UKIP (the UK Independence Party) came a miraculous 3rd in the Euro elections, getting 17% of the vote. They got members elected to the london assembly and a few councillors. the Tories, due to misadvice from central office, targeted UKIP and duly paid for it.

The Tories have come third in the past 3 by elections, and their ever more cringeing lefties gestures (such as supporting civil unions) has had members wretching and, ineed, fleeing to UKIP.

Just putting the qquestion whether the Tories or UKIP should represent the conservative wing of British politics?

BTW, UKIP favour withdrawal form the EU, a reduction in immigration

[Mark]

Conservatives.


I daresay most people who voted for UKIP don't actually want us out of the EU, but rather:

*Don't want the Euro
*Don't want the Constitution
*Don't want any more integration.

UKIP was a protest vote, they are not a serious threat at the general election.

However we do seem to need a new party of the Right.

[ZenWilsonian]

May I note that in my opinion, UKIP are the British equivalent of the Swiss Peoples Party. They are fierecly nationalist, and oppose international rôles and controls, believing sovreignty to be all important. While not racialist and largely not racist, there are some members who partake in racialist philosophy, often as part of traditionalism. This is where I REALLY oppose them. Their candidate for mayor of London, for example, appears at the Springbok club, in exhile, which was the main pro-apartheid institution in South Africa. HEnce, if you do vote UKIP and are against racism, I STRONGLY advise you examine the background of each individual, even from a conservative viewpoint some of them are 'bad'.

[Tim]

UKIP are not racist, nor are they isolationist.

It is just that the EU locks countries into a bloc from which relative power declines. Britain could easily have a seat and a say at the WTO, were it not for the EU "speaking for us".

I feel you misunderstand UKIP.

While the SPP may be anti-EU along with UKIP, there is no racist element in UKIP.

Besides: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3811841.stm

see for yourself!

[ZenWilsonian]

Tim, I know the UKIP is not officially racist (I believe they have a strong Pakistani support base in some areas), and most of its leaders aren't, but there are a few who are, notably the london mayoral candidate, who like I said, supported the Springbok club, an Afrikaner supremacist organization. What I am saying is that you should be careful, there are a few unsavour characters in there.

[Tim]

I hardly think Frank Maloney, who promotes boxers like Audley Harrison and Lennox Lewis (both of them being black) is a racist?

[Mark]

He's not saying all of UKIP are, just a few.

[Tim]

Im sure there are a few in every party though!

[ZenWilsonian]

Frank Maloney addressing the Springbok club. Thing about right wing nationalists such as UKIP is that racists can often be drawn to right wing nationalism, whether originally racist or not.[/img]

[Tim]

So?

Ken Livingston invites an Islamic fundamentalisty terrorist sympathiser to London for an official visit!!

The members of the Springbok club vote, don't they? So why stop him addressing?

And from the pic, it seems he is addressing them, not Maloney going to a regular springbok club meeting.

But, im sure you'll find racists in every party Zenn, and espacially Labour - where the BNP seem to gain footholds - in Labour areas!!

[Spin]

I personally dont think UKIP will do as well next time. I think that they got a better result due to EU constitution and having more media coverage due to Kilroy joining.

[Tim]

If you look at the council results theyve been getting, theyre doing far better after the election:

Thanet DC, Sir Moses Montefiore
Lab 378 (33.2;-13.3), Con 342 (30.1;-6.1), UKIP 288 (25.3;+25.3), Lib Dem 130 (11.4;-5.9)

Bournemouth UA, Boscombe West
Lib Dem 526 (42.9;+8.1), Con 384 (31.3;+5.9), Lab 120 (9.8;-5.6), UKIP 107 (8.7;+8.7), Green 90 (7.3;+7.3), [Ind (0.0;-24.4)]

Tendring DC, Pier Ward
Con 205 (30.5;-17.4), Lab 154 (22.9;-16.2), UKIP 109 (16.2;+16.2), Lib Dem 102 (15.2;+15.2) Community Candidate 102 (16.2;+16.2

Derby City, Mackworth
Lab 1180 (41.0;-2.6), Lib Dem 941 (32.7;+0.1), Con 290 (10.1;-13.6), UKIP 287 (10.0;+10.0), BNP 182 (6.3;+6.3).

Torbay UA, Wellswood
Con 964, 923 (54.0;-11.3), UKIP 545, 482 (29.4;+29.4), Lib Dem 198, 193 (11.2;-23.5), Lab 102, 89 (5.5;+5.5)

all results are post the euro elections 2004
link for british local election results: http://www.gwydir.demon.co.uk/byelections/index.htm

For a sinlge issue party, they seem to be getting a substantial vote in local eelctions. However, these tend to be higher in Tory areas, but still, they are getting a good percentage in areas like derby. So maybe they have a foothold?