[NikolasVile]

I've always wanted to ask someone who considers himself to be both Conservative and Christians these two questions. Living in New York, it's kind of hard to find actual Conservatives, and even harder to find Christians who take their religion seriously.

Anywho, onto the questions.

First, there seems to be some glaring contradictions between Conservatism and Christianity. Conservatism is generally a Darwinist philosophy where everyone works to the best of their abilities and either sinks or swims. People make as much money as they can, resulting in a series of classes going from the super rich to the poor.
Christianity, on the other hand, is more Communist. Jesus said to give all your wealth to the poor. It's believe that it's harder for a rich person to get into heaven. If one man has two tunics, he should give one to a man with no tunics, and such.
I read once that Conservatives believe in equal opportunities, while Liberals believe in equal outcomes. Meaning the Liberals would be the Christians.
So with all that being said, how does one reconcile being both Conservative and Christian?

Another question I have is, why do Christian Conservatives think America is founded on Christian values? Out of all ten commandments, only two are enforced in every state, one is enforced in some states, and the rest have always been ignored. And it's not like killing and stealing are only crimes in the Bible. They've been considered crimes in all Pagan societies too. Then there's the fact that America has never "turned the other cheek" after being attacked. Take all of that, plus our Capitalism, and how can one say we've ever been a Christian nation?

[Daktoria]

I'm from New York, so I completely understand what you're saying. At best, you find Rockefeller Republicans.

In any case, America was founded on the Protestant Work Ethic even going back to Puritan pilgrim times. The idea was colonists had to prove their worth by performing good works. Those who didn't weren't allowed to eat.

Even the separation of Church and State represents this because the Protestant Reformation was premised upon freedom of worship.

Furthermore, the modern era was built upon the Progressive "social gospel" when Catholic immigrants were assimilated into America's workforce. They were encouraged to sacrifice their ethnic political machines in exchange for social work, health care, education, and labor unions. Catholic immigrants were expected to pay their dues through rugged individualism, and in exchange, they would be cared for by the government.

Unfortunately, many conservatives don't understand this. They subscribe to the Sean Hannity/Bill O'Reilly version of conservatism where the "melting pot" is a supposed good thing. In reality, the melting pot was an excuse used by Protestants to intimidate Catholics whether they were Irish, Italian, Polish, or from some other origin.

[NikolasVile]

In any case, America was founded on the Protestant Work Ethic even going back to Puritan pilgrim times. The idea was colonists had to prove their worth by performing good works. Those who didn't weren't allowed to eat.

That sounds way more Darwinist than Christian to me. If a person proves himself as useful to society, he gets to live. If he doesn't, he's left to starve to death.

Even the separation of Church and State represents this because the Protestant Reformation was premised upon freedom of worship.

Yes, but there's nothing inherently Christian about the separation of Church and State. I suppose we can say that this separation was based on the Protestant Reformation, but it's still not a Christian principle by any means.

Furthermore, the modern era was built upon the Progressive "social gospel" when Catholic immigrants were assimilated into America's workforce. They were encouraged to sacrifice their ethnic political machines in exchange for social work, health care, education, and labor unions. Catholic immigrants were expected to pay their dues through rugged individualism, and in exchange, they would be cared for by the government.

Just as Jesus would have wanted it.

[Daktoria]

That sounds way more Darwinist than Christian to me. If a person proves himself as useful to society, he gets to live. If he doesn't, he's left to starve to death.

Yes, but there's nothing inherently Christian about the separation of Church and State. I suppose we can say that this separation was based on the Protestant Reformation, but it's still not a Christian principle by any means.

I agree. This is what makes Protestantism so evil:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_depravity

In contrast, Catholicism believes in this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation

Just as Jesus would have wanted it.

There are no heroics in government. Charity comes from directly socializing goodwill, not politicized social engineering.

[onemalehuman]

There are no heroics in government. Charity comes from directly socializing goodwill, not politicized social engineering.

So there is free will and good will, anything else is selfish, arrogant, egotistical, evil, anti-social, etc.

there are no herorics in governance as governments require trials by fire to join a collective ideology in either spiritual or political convictions to character role playing that make role models as an example to being rewarded for not asking questions with titles of rank within the commune built upon sugeested what ifs what is real doesn't always happen presently.

Wait till tomorrow for now today is needed to save yesterday's ideas to remain tomorrow's governing ideology to those following science or spirituality there is salvation within numbers that believe the same idea of one ideologue leading the thought process of shared thinking life extinds passed the present tense.

Incomplete, is never entirely wrong or completely accurate. Doesn't matter which reality as they all practice the same sense of governance in adopting ideas to be the way to live beyond their own lifetime. Know eternity physically exists in the present tense physically and anything beyond the moment here is metaphors and metaphysical possibilities of anything is possible because probably no body will be allowed to think beyond their social justification saving character's rights.

This covers every reality equally. Again, incomplete whethr it is theology or theory is completely accurate about real, even though one can accurate recite printed material as gospel and civil codes to regulate civic pride as directed by scriptures of spirituality and rule of laws characters matter hypothetically until some one can prove beyond a shadow of doubt theory creates asking what if.

[Rich]

Even the separation of Church and State represents this because the Protestant Reformation was premised upon freedom of worship.

Oh yeah and the founders worked tirelessly to abolish slavery. Protestantism was started by murderous terrorist filth like Luther and Calvin. Luther of course wasn't in a position to order murder like Calvin he could only cheer lead it on.

[U184]

So with all that being said, how does one reconcile being both Conservative and Christian?

One can do both by acting in a fair manner in all aspects of life, trying to advocate for said fairness and making ones work cen ter around ones community.

Profit can be sought, while not taking away from either ideal and on the same note, one can ensure that fairness by acting out of charity and encouraging others in the community to do the same. Profit can take many forms and one can earn it while building others up, rather than tearing others down in order to profit themselves.

Another question I have is, why do Christian Conservatives think America is founded on Christian values?

The people who came to build America, were by and large, Puritans or other types of Christians. All the aspects that our social structure were built on and, for the most part, stand on today, follow the basic tenants of freedom of religion and the associated freedoms of a free man.

[AlwaysOnDuty]

First, there seems to be some glaring contradictions between Conservatism and Christianity. Conservatism is generally a Darwinist philosophy where everyone works to the best of their abilities and either sinks or swims. People make as much money as they can, resulting in a series of classes going from the super rich to the poor.
Christianity, on the other hand, is more Communist. Jesus said to give all your wealth to the poor. It's believe that it's harder for a rich person to get into heaven. If one man has two tunics, he should give one to a man with no tunics, and such.
I read once that Conservatives believe in equal opportunities, while Liberals believe in equal outcomes. Meaning the Liberals would be the Christians.
So with all that being said, how does one reconcile being both Conservative and Christian?

Another question I have is, why do Christian Conservatives think America is founded on Christian values? Out of all ten commandments, only two are enforced in every state, one is enforced in some states, and the rest have always been ignored. And it's not like killing and stealing are only crimes in the Bible. They've been considered crimes in all Pagan societies too. Then there's the fact that America has never "turned the other cheek" after being attacked. Take all of that, plus our Capitalism, and how can one say we've ever been a Christian nation?

These are some fine questions you got here. And for me its the call of duty to my God and Country... heck it was what I was thankful for sitting at the table eating the turkey with all those fancy fixings. I am a conservative activist who gladly gives advice to those who cant properly get the big ol picture in front of them.

1. I don't see no contradiction. You see Jesus once said Give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is Gods. Your idea of the rich not getting into heaven is bogged down by class warfare. That rich person will get in as long as they love their God and Country. Folk who work hard for their daily meal deserve to indulge. That aint social darwinism thats reality. I sure aint no damn commi or socialist and neither was the Lord and savior! Liberals mostly believe in acting above God and Country and therefore can't get into heaven because they imposed their own self interest in the name of liberty. I tell ya that unborn baby killing doesnt sit too well with my God and it shouldnt sit well with this country. I reconcile being Conservative and Christian because one cant exist without the other.

2. All our good and well-read founding fathers adhered to the Bible which is the word of God. Thomas Jefferson the founder of the Republican party (amen) even crafted his own special Bible in his study at Monticello which had all his favorite readings in it. We can't turn the other cheek and tuck tail and run. Thats how our freedom and peace gets destroyed. We need the biggest military because there are enemies of our Lord and enemies of Freedom and peace out in the Pagan world. They envy our righteousness and high standard of living along with morals. That is why we do need to send in the troops to Iran. Our security is at stake and so is our manifest destiny. The world depends on our Christian nation to deliver the world from evil. thats why I stand strictly Conservative!

I hope that helps you out with those thoughts you had. Im always willing to lend a hand to anyone needing advice on being a Conservative.

[Texas_Secession]

Jesus said nothing of the sort.

Jesus was made a POINT, asking an affluent liberal businessman to give all his wealth to the poor, knowing the liberal would not; knowing the businessman worshiped money more.

< shakes head >

BASIC Bible people!

[Red_Bull]

They can't reconcile these things. A Christian conservative is someone who wants to keep their insane amount of vacation homes and wealth while avoiding guilt. If Jesus was around you can be assured there would be collective farming and profiteering off brothers and sisters of god would be prohibited.

[Travesty]

They can't reconcile these things. A Christian (edit: American) conservative is someone who wants to keep their insane amount of vacation homes and wealth while avoiding guilt. If Jesus was around you can be assured there would be collective farming and profiteering off brothers and sisters of god would be prohibited.

This is very true. Christianity is a religion for the poor and helpless in society. It has of course been corrupted, and infiltrated throughout the ages just like everything else.

why do Christian Conservatives think America is founded on Christian values?

I would imagine it is due to the Mayflower pilgrims and other religious minorities at the founding of the colonies or something to do with that. The Founders of America the state where overwhelmingly secular deists.

[Rainbow Crow]

Jesus' teachings regarding the rich and poor were not one-dimensional but it is no surprise that people who have not actually studied them would think that they can be summarized in one sentence. It's ironic that leftists values are essentially based off of a mis-understanding of conservative values because they effectively despise Christian values. A majority of leftists in the west can't even articulate a reason for why the rich should give all of their money to the poor, they just take it as a given that it's the right thing to do. It's a given because they were raised with Christian values which they later chose to reject and criticize in an ignorant manner.

To answer the question for anyone who is wondering, Jesus also said (paraphrase) "give a man a fish and he has one fish; teach him how to fish and he has fish for life." He also said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's." The underlying point is that people need to be taught (re: the fish parable) how to earn (re: the Caesar parable) things for themselves and not to keep things that they gained unfairly (re: criticism of the rich man). This is distinct from giving unconditional and unlimited handouts to people just because they have less.

[Travesty]

Matthew 19:16-22

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

[Rainbow Crow]

Being perfect basically means being a priest (and therefore celibate under orthodoxy), but there is no expectation that everyone be perfect since then the human race would cease to exist.

[Travesty]

You really want to argue that Jesus favoured the rich in any way?

Mark 12:41-44 He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. 43 Then he called his disciples and said to them, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."

Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Luke 11:39-42 Then the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? So give for alms those things that are within; and see, everything will be clean for you. "But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and herbs of all kinds, and neglect justice and the love of God

Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."

And the most famous ones:

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

[Rainbow Crow]

You simply do not understand what you are quoting because you take it at face value without trying to decipher terms or the underlying context. I'm not arguing that Jesus "favored" the rich. I'm saying it's more complicated than "Jesus was a socialist so rich people should give away everything they have to people who live lifestyles that Jesus condemned." Something that a lot of people don't recognize is that in Jesus' time, social liberalism practically did not exist and the rich he referred to, such as the Pharisees, were typically hedonistic and the closest thing to social liberals as well as being rich.

Jesus would have frowned upon your typical baby mama. Do you think he would have told us to give her all of our wealth so that she can continue living an unsustainable lifestyle, or would he tell us that teaching her to live responsibly is the most important thing?

You see, poor people who lived off of welfare and lived hedonistic lifestyles funded by others did not exist in Jesus' era because if you tried to do that you would have been dead within a month.

[Travesty]

No but Jesus would not have favored tax cuts for the rich or trickle down economics.

Jesus was not a socialist he was a Revolutionary who favored the poor, the weak and the oppressed, and they largely made up his following along with former rich men who gave up everything they had. And not everybody who is poor is automatically a welfare queen.

[Rainbow Crow]

Jesus was before all else a social conservative. Since most of the poor in the developed world are parasitic social liberals, it is reasonable to conclude that he would not have favored the modern poor even though he favored the ancient poor because the decadence and hedonism existed in the upper classes then instead of primarily in the lower classes as it does in the developed world today.

You can disagree with whatever you want of course, but realize that Christians have actually reasoned this through and are not merely being hypocrites regarding their own doctrines. Then, consider that Christians still give more to charity than anyone else.

[Travesty]

Jesus was before all else a social conservative.

Jesus was not a social conservative, he broke with Rabbinic traditions and the Jewish establishment. And the Jews really had it out for him.

Since most of the poor in the developed world are parasitic social liberals

No, a coal miner for example is not a parasitic social liberal. A lot of the poor are not lazy, but grew up in conditions that made it impossible to attain a higher education, and where forced to work to feed their families at a young age giving up other pursuits in life.

Whats your point? You think the Koach brothers who fund the American Tea Party are Christians at heart? Neither are the Democrats.

[Rainbow Crow]

I guess it is debatable whether Jesus was a social conservative for that time but to suggest that he was not a social conservative by today's standards would be pretty ridiculous. I think it is clear that I am trying to take this into a modern context for you.

I have nothing against helping coal miners, nor do most conservatives I think. You are moving the goal posts regarding the kind of people we are talking about. My position is that Jesus was not a modern socialist and would not expect the rich to give away their wealth unconditionally in support of people who don't live socially conservative lifestyles.

In essence, critics of Christianity think that they can win arguments about things that they refuse to seriously study or consider To truly understand this you need to understand Caesar, the Pharisees, social values of the time, etc. It seems that you do not intend to take this seriously so I will be ending this here. If you get anything out of this exchange then I hope it is a realization that it is not as simple as you have asserted.