Is the Conservative Movement now low on angry white males? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Traditional 'common sense' values and duty to the state.
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#14678373
The Sabbaticus wrote:Dagoth Ur is illustrating just how regressive 'progressives' are. Apparently he wants centuries old mentalities to be re-introduced to modern society. But only for 'white people', because 'non-white people' have never done anything remotely racist, bigoted or prejudiced.


I thought Dagoth was laughing at the white people who think that the minorities are going to treat white people the same way white people have treated minorities.
#14678512
Pants-of-dog wrote:r
I thought Dagoth was laughing at the white people who think that the minorities are going to treat white people the same way white people have treated minorities.

Actually, they would if they could. There is nothing unusual in this, just human nature. Whites as a class will stilll have sufficient numbers to inhibit such retaliation, for the most part.

The exception will be the white working class. Their descent will be breathtaking.
#14678520
Sure. Let me know when the blacks will institute the transatlantic slave trade, this time targeting whites, and when indigenous people spread colonialism throughout Europe, and all the people of colour enact racist laws that have legacies that last hundreds of years, and Jews enact pogroms all over Europe.

Wait, the idea that these things will happen is ludicrous even if white people are the minority because that would take hundreds of years and would require historical conditions that resembled the conditions during the colonial and imperial eras.

And the chances of those conditions happening again, only this time with white people as the underdogs, is so vanishingly small that I assume people would laugh at the idea.

Though I agree that white people are no more immoral than any other people and if any other group had happened to have the historical and material conditions that allowed white people to engage in imperialism and colonialism, they would also have taken the opportunity.
#14678538
Dagoth Ur wrote:So that is what you are afraid of? Being on the receiving end of what white people have been doing for centuries now?
This is just typical of the vile anti White European racist bile that just gets a pass both on PoFo and in the wider society.

What is so incredible is that anyone could possibly imagine that White have anything they need to feel bad about. Lets look at White people's behaviour in the sixteenth and seventeenth century, who would you like to compare to it too? Perhaps the Iroquois or Lakota treatment of prisoners of war. Perhaps the religious values of the Aztecs and Incas. Perhaps the slavery of West Africa. Maybe the welcoming hospitality towards strangers displayed by the tribes of the Congo basin. We could perhaps learn from the Arab Muslims how to treat women or maybe we could look to the Hindus for an equal opportunities policy. Confucian China were an object lesson in fairness and equality. Then again there's the culinary diversity of the New Guinee hill tribes.

When Black people in America whine on about historical treatment its only because we taught them about individual rights and liberties. When Indians complain about the British occupation of their country its only because we gave them the idea of modern nationalism. When Palestinians demand self rule its only because they've seen our modern liberal democracies. Even Marxism was a western European invention. The ideology of imperialism only came into existence to explain away the complete failure of Marx's predictions.
#14678544
The ideology of imperialism only came into existence to explain away the complete failure of Marx's predictions.

Actually, the ideology of imperialism came about in the middle to late 19th century in order to justify Britain's imperial conquests and exploitation of other nations' resources and labour power. Lord Macaulay, for example, was writing in the 1830s and 1840s, before Marx wrote his major works and long before any ideology called 'Marxism' ever existed. Even by the 1890s, most members of the British elite had never heard of Marx, and wouldn't have cared about him even if they had.
#14678545
Potemkin wrote:Actually, the ideology of imperialism came about in the middle to late 19th century in order to justify Britain's imperial conquests and exploitation of other nations' resources and labour power. Lord Macaulay, for example, was writing in the 1830s and 1840s, before Marx wrote his major works and long before any ideology called 'Marxism' ever existed. Even by the 1890s, most members of the British elite had never heard of Marx, and wouldn't have cared about him even if they had.
Sorry if I was unclear I meant the Marxist theory of imperialism, that has been used in two contradictory ways. On the one hand it is claimed that the reason there had been no revolution in the advanced countries was because Capitalists had used surplice profits from Imperialism to buy off the western Working class. On the other hand it was claimed that a crisis of profit drove the Capitalists to start a world war in 1914. This was utter bunkum. there was no economic crisis in 1914 that required the acquisition of new markets. the British Socialist workers party actually admitted what any non Marxist economist with half a brain could tell you that only a small percentage of world profit is generated in the under developed world.

The places that create profit have rule of law, infrastructure an educated work force. Somali might full-fill Libertarians insane fantasy for minimal central government, but there's sod all money to be made out of it.
#14678557
Pants-of-dog wrote:Though I agree that white people are no more immoral than any other people and if any other group had happened to have the historical and material conditions that allowed white people to engage in imperialism and colonialism, they would also have taken the opportunity.

I don't disagree with any of that. Groups only go so far as their historical circumstances will allow. Given those limitations, the white working class will face a relative decline substantially in excess of general trends. I'm not saying it's a bad thing especially. Various groups are constantly advancing and declining.

In one sense, the white working class is simply returning to the historical norm that prevailed before the interwar period, exacerbated by demographic decline. This is either a cause for celebration or concern, depending on your point of view.

White liberals are motivated more by class contempt than racial guilt. After all, it's the working class that voted Republican. Hence they deserve the just deserts they have earned.
#14678608
Rich wrote:On the one hand it is claimed that the reason there had been no revolution in the advanced countries was because Capitalists had used surplice profits from Imperialism to buy off the western Working class.
Rei Murasame wrote:And this turned out to be 500% true. So I don't see what your problem is. The theory stacks up.
It doesn't stack up. The German industrial revolution was well underway, before it had any empire at all, let alone made any profit from it. Reparations and Germany's effective exclusion from most of the world market were disasterous, but this didn't mean empires made countries rich. Sweden became rich without an empire, so did Germany and Japan after world war 2. Spain and Portugal stagnated despite huge empires, The Marxist theory of Imperialism is bollocks, it just has a comforting appeal to bleedin heart liberals and non European nationalists like Santa Claus does for children.
#14678614
quetzalcoatl wrote:I don't disagree with any of that. Groups only go so far as their historical circumstances will allow. Given those limitations, the white working class will face a relative decline substantially in excess of general trends. I'm not saying it's a bad thing especially. Various groups are constantly advancing and declining.

In one sense, the white working class is simply returning to the historical norm that prevailed before the interwar period, exacerbated by demographic decline. This is either a cause for celebration or concern, depending on your point of view.


I find these two paragraphs contradict each other.

If the white working class is simply returning to the historical norm, then the white working class will not face a substantial relative decline, seeing as how the white working class enjoyed a high standard relative to other working classes through most recent historical eras.

White liberals are motivated more by class contempt than racial guilt. After all, it's the working class that voted Republican. Hence they deserve the just deserts they have earned.


I try to avoid speculating on the motives of others, except when it is an obvious case of financial greed. I find such speculation is often used to disparage people, and uses pop psychology that is unverifiable and detracts from rational debate.

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