Conservative Flaw - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Traditional 'common sense' values and duty to the state.
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User avatar
By philiphos
#14525468
Let's get this straight I do not mean to mean to express conservative policies in general to be seen as bad, even though I consider myself a progressive person I do know that some values must be conserved as Oliver Stone once said: "I think experience will teach you a combination of liberalism and conservatism. We have to be progressive and at the same time we have to retain values. We have to hold onto the past as we explore the future." I might not agree in some social matter with conservative people, however I do agree in some of their fiscal policy stances however I find the conservative politicians contradictory. They preach about Free-Markets, non-intervention and less regulation on Economic activities to promete jobs growth and economic growth, less government spending on Social/Welfare programs since people might get too attached to government help and we need to have a balanced budget and as the government gets small the better for everyone.... ( http://rightwingnews.com/john-hawkins/stop-poor/ )
And so from 2008 to these days almost every country in Europe has reduced social benefits, unemployment benefit as well, cut on Education and Health expenses restarted the privatization process to Liberalize their economy, "Your economy will be prosperous" said the "Experts", on the other hand Billions were used to bailout financial institutions and Private Companies, even though some conservatives might tell you "It's swim or dive baby", well not from everyone if you're the "average joe" Yeah you either swim or you dive like a stone if you own a bank or a big corporation the government will take care of things just relax, They will get the money by cutting pensions, lowering wages and raising Income Taxe's and the best of it is that Politicians say that we have to do this for our own good
Just one of my many thoughts in Today's Society, Capitalism and conservative/neoliberal demagogy, Am I wrong?
User avatar
By One Degree
#14525498
I don't know about Europe, but in the US I believe that a Conservative and Liberal voter is not the same thing as a Conservative or Liberal politician.

Voters may represent different ideologies.
Politicians represent different special interest groups. The interest group's organizations have virtually no difference in my opinion.
I fail to see much difference in a CEO and a labor union boss.
Of course many, if not most voters, vote according to the special interest groups they support.
All of the special interest involved makes it very confusing as to who is really a liberal and who is really a conservative.
I am not sure the terms even apply anymore. They just put them on like you would a coat depending upon the weather.

Edit: Myself for example. I am very liberal when it comes to local social programs, but I am very conservative because I am for local autonomy and against big government. I am also anti big business an anti union. So, I know the terms do not define me any longer. I don't think I am alone.
Last edited by One Degree on 15 Feb 2015 01:31, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Manifest
#14525500
Your complaint seems to be that conservatives want to bail out corporations at the taxpayer's expense. I'm reasonably confident that that isn't a conservative idea.
User avatar
By quetzalcoatl
#14525515
Manifest wrote:Your complaint seems to be that conservatives want to bail out corporations at the taxpayer's expense. I'm reasonably confident that that isn't a conservative idea.
Then why won't they stop?
User avatar
By One Degree
#14525518
delete
User avatar
By Manifest
#14525521
quetzalcoatl wrote:Then why won't they stop?


Now you're implying that the actions of politicians adhere to some political philosophical system, which certainly isn't the case.
By so_crates
#14635978
quetzalcoatl wrote: Then why won't they stop?


That's pretty much a straw man argument.

As I recall, Obama bailed out the auto industry at taxpayers expense.
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#14635990
Yeah, everyone bails out big companies these days. I think the west is going to decline economically in the face of China no matter what policies are followed since wealth today is relative. The question is whether the decline is larger or small, gradual or sudden.
User avatar
By quetzalcoatl
#14636066
so_crates wrote:
That's pretty much a straw man argument.

As I recall, Obama bailed out the auto industry at taxpayers expense.


Yes, precisely. Both liberals and conservatives have favored protecting certain industries at taxpayer expense. But follow me closely here: liberals have no ideological conflict with the promotion and regulation of commerce. It's the conservatives that kneel at the church of free markets (while sinning against them once they step outside the temple). You can't whine about liberals practicing what they believe, and ignore the fact that conservatives are failing to do so. If it is your intention to argue that conservatism offers a distinct principled approach, then arguing that "they do it too" as a justification ain't gonna wash.

So again, I ask: if they are against it why don't they stop?
By so_crates
#14636204
quetzalcoatl wrote:
Yes, precisely. Both liberals and conservatives have favored protecting certain industries at taxpayer expense. But follow me closely here: liberals have no ideological conflict with the promotion and regulation of commerce. It's the conservatives that kneel at the church of free markets (while sinning against them once they step outside the temple). You can't whine about liberals practicing what they believe, and ignore the fact that conservatives are failing to do so. If it is your intention to argue that conservatism offers a distinct principled approach, then arguing that "they do it too" as a justification ain't gonna wash.

So again, I ask: if they are against it why don't they stop?


Hate to burst you bubble, but I'm not trying to justify one behavior by pointing out the bad behavior of someone else. I'm pointing out an apparent hypocrisy, where liberals whine about others doing something, then they turn around and do exactly the same thing.

No justification, just a where do you get off criticizing someone else, when it's something you do.

And if it's a liberal value, as you claim, I would think liberals would be overjoyed that conservatives used their course of action.

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