[Rich]

So before going further into my own thoughts on this matter, I want to ask if anyone disputes this assertion. You see its weird that Adolf Hitler is frequently shown as an example of abandoning God, but Ronald Reagan isn't. There was a Presidential election campaign in 1980, its pretty obvious which was the Christian candidate in that election and it wasn't Ronald Reagan.

[Ganeshas Rat]

Hitler? Christian? Common. He not only claimed the theory of racial supremacy (that's not very compatible with Christianity), he supported neo pagan organizations of Germany and struggled with the Church and its adepts.

[mikema63]

Rich is claiming that Reagan wasn't christian, not that Hitler was.

[blackjack21]

Well Reagan wasn't Carter's flavor of Christian, but he was a mainline Protestant. A Presbyterian, I believe. Whereas, Carter was a Baptist. Think Westboro Baptist Church--God hates fags, etc. Hitler was a bit of a momma's boy, and his mother was a devout Roman Catholic. I believe he found the swastika he loved so well in a Catholic cemetery--although, it is not traditionally a symbol of national socialism.

[Rich]

Hitler? Christian? Common. He not only claimed the theory of racial supremacy (that's not very compatible with Christianity),

Was the Confederacy not Christian, was the Jim Crow south not Christian? Was apartheid South Africa not Christian? Was UDI Rhodesia not Christian? So racism now precludes one from being categorised as a Christian?

[Heinie]

A lot of people are Christian by definition but not by conviction.

[ThirdTerm]

The endorsement of the Catholic Church strengthened his political movement, which was why he signed the Nazi-Vatican Concordat in 1933. But some statements by Nazi leaders showed that the national socialist movement was essentially anti-Christian, aiming at destroying both the Catholic and Protestant churches, and replacing God with Hitler as a living god. Hitler also belonged to Haplogroup E1b, which is typical of those with African or Jewish heritage. President Reagan had strong Christian beliefs and he waged an openly spiritual campaign against communism because of the religious repression and state-mandated atheism in Soviet Union, contrary to Hitler who waged a mindless race war against the USSR.

Hitler Youth leader Baldur von Schirach said, “The destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the national socialist movement.” And Nazi leader Alfred Rosenberg, a member of Hitler’s inner circle, stated at the Nuremberg Congress of 1938, “I am absolutely clear in my own mind, and I think I can speak for the Fuhrer as well, that both the Catholic and Protestant churches must vanish from the life of our people.” In 1933, the German economy was in freefall, with unemployment over 30 percent. Germany was a nation in need of a savior, and Hitler decided that he would be the one to fill that role. As Hitler grew more powerful, his religious tolerance disappeared, and he tried to replace Christianity with a new “Reich Church,” a religion in which there was no god but Hitler.
http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/chu ... andhitler/

[Zamuel]

Hitler was a bit of a momma's boy, and his mother was a devout Roman Catholic

Hitler was indeed baptized and raised as a Catholic and was confirmed in the faith at the age of 15. He gave it up after his experience in the trenches of WWI ... He's probably best characterized as a wishy-washy agnostic ... While proclaiming the Nazi agenda could not coexist with religion he frequently made references to "The Divine Creator" and believed he had been chosen by "Divine Providence" He was also enamored of mysticism and consulted closely with astrologers and psychics throughout his life.

Likewise Reagan wasn't very serious about religion. He attended church as a weekly ritual and was fond of calling upon the almighty whenever it might swing a vote his way. On a personal level he believed he had a destiny to fulfill and seriously considered that "God" had spared him to complete it when he survived an assassination attempt that could just as easily have killed him. He humored his wife who consulted psychics on a daily basis and arranged his schedule accordingly.

Zam

[Frollein]

And Nazi leader Alfred Rosenberg, a member of Hitler’s inner circle, stated at the Nuremberg Congress of 1938, “I am absolutely clear in my own mind, and I think I can speak for the Fuhrer as well, that both the Catholic and Protestant churches must vanish from the life of our people.”

Irony of history, they have vanished from our lives, which is why they welcome our invaders so enthusiastically now - they probably hope for converts. The immediate effect is that even the nominal members*) are now irate enough to officially leave their church.

*) I discovered that there is no English word for "Karteileiche". You really need one. The literal translation is: "file corpse". "File zombie" would also work...

[Potemkin]

I discovered that there is no English word for "Karteileiche". You really need one. The literal translation is: "file corpse". "File zombie" would also work...

There is such a word in English, Frollein. We call them 'Anglicans'.

[Frollein]

But can you also use it in a non-religious context? For example, I'm a file zombie of my fitness club...

[Rich]

Rich is claiming that Reagan wasn't christian, not that Hitler was.

No the Christians don't get off that easily. Hitler has been designated the most evil man in the history of the world. Just think about it, the Christians and those Conservative non Christians that jump into bed with the Christians have had seventy years work up a case that Hitler wasn't a Christian and the paucity of their case speaks volumes. Hitler certainly tolerated non Christians in the leadership of the Nazi state, but then Hitler generally gave huge lassitude to his lieutenants, he wasn't a rigid control freak like Stalin or Gordon Brown.

What people seem to forget is that Adolf Hitler was the German JFK. Key lieutenants such as Himmler and Goebels were Catholics. When he came to power his Vice Chancellor was also a Catholic. In such circumstances Hitler could hardly be expected to play up his Catholicism.

Ronald Reagan on the other hand had to pretend to be a Christian. He wasn't a dictator like Hitler. The Reagan Administration's willingness to describe the Afghan conflict as a holy war speaks to their utter contempt for Christianity. Reagan's use of Christianity for the anti Communist cause was no different from Stalin's cynical use of Christianity for the pro Communist cause.

[Potemkin]

But can you also use it in a non-religious context? For example, I'm a file zombie of my fitness club...

"You're an Anglican of your fitness club..." Yeah, I think it works.

[Conscript]

We don't have file zombies, but we do have house zombies that get foreclosed on.

[Frollein]

But can you also use it in a non-religious context? For example, I'm a file zombie of my fitness club...

"You're an Anglican of your fitness club..." Yeah, I think it works.

Only in England, I guess. For the Australians, Americans and the rest of the Anglo diaspora, my offer still stands.

[Ganeshas Rat]

There is such a word in English, Frollein. We call them 'Anglicans'.

The word has other meaning east of Suez.

[mikema63]

Who knows, file zombie might catch on, we've adopted german words into the common english lexicon before.

[The Immortal Goon]

In the case of the Nazis, the Catholics were not sympathetic. The Catholic political parties were among the first to be shut down, the Catholic schools closed, and the fascists themselves denounced as, "Pagan worship of the state," from Catholic pulpits.

Germany has a Luthern base that was easier to nationalize, especially works of Luther's like, "The Jews and Their Lies."

This is less true in Italy, and in Spain and Ireland the Catholics and fascists were happy to go frolicking around together. But these are cases where the Catholics are useful for nationalism and whatnot.

[annatar1914]

In the case of the Nazis, the Catholics were not sympathetic. The Catholic political parties were among the first to be shut down, the Catholic schools closed, and the fascists themselves denounced as, "Pagan worship of the state," from Catholic pulpits.

Germany has a Luthern base that was easier to nationalize, especially works of Luther's like, "The Jews and Their Lies."

This is less true in Italy, and in Spain and Ireland the Catholics and fascists were happy to go frolicking around together. But these are cases where the Catholics are useful for nationalism and whatnot.

As jaundiced of an opinion as I have of the Roman Church, the rank and file members of the Roman Church were as often as not, enemies of the NSDAP.

[Heinie]

As jaundiced of an opinion as I have of the Roman Church, the rank and file members of the Roman Church were as often as not, enemies of the NSDAP.

Where is the evidence to support your claim that Catholics were as likely to be enemies of the Nazi Party as supporters, I wonder. The Nazi base was in Catholic Bavaria and one issue more than any other united Catholics; like all Nazis, they despised Communism with a passion and the failure of conservative Catholic politicians in the Weimar Republic in stamping-out the Reds during catastrophic inflation and the consequent instability of the state was manifest. Catholics, especially successful farmers in Bavaria and the working class found a natural home in the NSDAP.


"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost Duty to revive in the Nation a Spirit of Unity and Cooperation. It will preserve and defend these basic Principles on which our Nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national Morality and the Family as the Basis of national Life. (Adolf Hitler. "My New Order". Proclamation to the German Nation at Berlin. 1 February 1933)