why are you voting for Trump? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14655309
The reason to vote for trump is very simple, because he is the closest candidate to the 60-70s conservative in the US modern history. But i am not an american so i can't really vote.

First of all: He is not a Neoconservative on foreighn policy.
Second of all: He is not a Neoliberal of Reagan sort on economic issues.

If you look past the smart marketing campaign that he set up for himself and only he can execute, you will see that he is the least 'conservative' of all candidates in the modern american meaning of the word. In this sense i would label him a true conservative not a corporate hoax.

He is against interventionist policies in the middle east. He believes that american policemen project needs to be suspended for now to divert resources to home projects.
He believes that large infrastructure spending is needed and tax cuts are not needed for now. He believes that improving the economy depends on the government providing a better environment for business by improving the infrastructure and laws but not by cutting taxes.

He believes in the middle class and considers strong cultural and social fabrics are the key to restoring the middle class. He believes that immigration causes harm to the middle class by undermining the wages. He believes that globalisation is hurting america by outsourcing jobs and production away from American citizens.

He believes in negotiations instead of gun-ho politics. He believes that fighting back is only necessary until the point an agreement can be reached. He doesn't mind using underhanded means to achieve his goals. In the pure sense of the word, he will do anything to be victorious be it the presidential race or be he the president already.

Trump also has Charisma compared to the rest of the presidential pool from the R side. He is also of the establishment but he is not bound by the establishment.

If i had a choice, he is my 2nd pick out of all the candidates be it R or D. Sanders is my first pick, although he doesn't have some of the qualities that Trump has, he has a better platform for my liking.

Also Trump is perhaps the best candidate at delivering his promises. He has charisma, will and a cut throat attitude which are commendable traits. Sanders has some charisma but regarding his will and other traits i am not so sure. Its a close pick between Trump and Sanders for me, but because of the platform i would pick Sanders although, as a person, he is a weaker candidate.
#14655324
[quote="Zamuel"There is no fiscally conservative party in the US. (Witness the absurd spending under Reagan and Bush II).
I would point out that Bill Clinton was setting the stage for one ... Downsizing government, emphasizing efficiency and economy. If Al Gore had been allowed to continue that, I think it would have caught on ... AND the republicans would have had to move in that direction too. With the economic collapse, Obama had no chance of trying to revive it. Hillary may ?[/quote]

http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... nce-budget

A little bit of revisionism maybe? Slick willy didn't do crap. Newt Gingrich was responsible for everything that the dims and slick willy took credit for.
#14655328
A little bit of revisionism maybe? Slick willy didn't do crap. Newt Gingrich was responsible for everything that the dims and slick willy took credit for.


Nonsense.

And while you are at it I wouldn't post the CATO Institute for proof of anything except that you will accept any source that agrees with you.

Clinton was a conservative. What part of that is hard for you to understand. So is his wife. She was on the board of Walmart FFS. Do pay attention. Turn off Fox News and try reading a little.
#14655333
Drlee wrote:And while you are at it I wouldn't post the CATO Institute for proof of anything except that you will accept any source that agrees with you.


Nonsense. Prove it.


Drlee wrote:Clinton was a conservative. What part of that is hard for you to understand. So is his wife. She was on the board of Walmart FFS. Do pay attention. Turn off Fox News and try reading a little.


Nonsense. Prove it.
#14655353
Actually Drlee i would say that after 80s and this whole imitation of the left/right wing divide entrenched itself and people have already forgotten that before the 80s both parties had 'left' and 'right' candidates and in that regard Bill was more of a moderate, something between right or left wing in the american understanding of the term. He leaned a bit more to conservatism though. I wouldn't call him a full conservative outright.
#14655354
RCHamm wrote:Nonsense. Prove it.

Well, for a start ... That ain't Bernie Sanders sittin there dude ...

Image

Then, let see:
Clinton "He brought in more tax money than any President in his time, so how much did he spend with all those inflows and a booming economy? Not much, and he not only balanced the budget but ran a sizable surplus, something no Republican has ever done in history. The budget went from $1.38 trillion in 1992 under Bush I to $1.79 trillion in 2000 under Clinton. Only a 29.4% increase under Clinton, our best fiscal President."

George Bush Sr. "in 1988 under Reagan, and $1.38 trillion in 1992 under Bush. That's a 30.1% increase in spending under Bush I, more than under Clinton, in only HALF of the time in office."

Ronald Reagan "Reagan increased spending by 79.4%, making Reagan the biggest spender in modern U.S. history." Yeah Baby "REAGAN CONSERVATIVE" is definitely an oxymoron !

I say again ... Bill Clinton was a fiscal conservative, and Al Gore MIGHT have done even better !

Oh yeah ... here's a citation if you want to check those facts & figures: https://www.quora.com/How-is-someone-who-is-fiscally-conservative-and-socially-liberal-supposed-to-vote

Zam
#14655555
Actually Drlee i would say that after 80s and this whole imitation of the left/right wing divide entrenched itself and people have already forgotten that before the 80s both parties had 'left' and 'right' candidates and in that regard Bill was more of a moderate, something between right or left wing in the american understanding of the term. He leaned a bit more to conservatism though. I wouldn't call him a full conservative outright.


You are right. It is probably a better characterization to call him a moderate. There were issues upon which he was fairly left leaning. Universal health care comes to mind. I would put him slightly right of Nixon and way right of LBJ.

Perhaps the best thing that can be said for him is that he was great at avoiding the trap of letting perfect get in the way of good enough. He is an extremely smart man. Clearly the smartest president of our time. He was also a masterful deal maker.
#14655649
Zamuel wrote:Well, for a start ... That ain't Bernie Sanders sittin there dude ...
RCHamm wrote:You talking about young cankles?

I'm talking about her friend, the one who doesn't believe she really caught a fish that big ... This would be about the time Bill was starting his second term. AND applied quite a bit of the advice the fellow in the photo provided.

Zam
#14655684
pensativo wrote:I see Trump leading in the polls but not many people online elucidating their reasons for supporting him. He's apparently leading by huge margins. What are your reasons?

I'm a Cruz guy, but I'd vote Trump in the general if that's my choice.

1. He's not owned by special interests.
2. He's blowing up political correctness
3. The left and elites will be apoplectic

RCHamm wrote:A little bit of revisionism maybe? Slick willy didn't do crap. Newt Gingrich was responsible for everything that the dims and slick willy took credit for.

It's true that Gingrich is much more responsible for the balanced budget than Clinton. Clinton accomplished a lot, but it's open for debate if it was good or not. GATT, NAFTA, and MFN status for China were all signed by Clinton and ratified by a Republican Congress. That's why Trump's position on trade is interesting.

Clinton did push for a crime bill with lots of cash for hiring police officers in the inner city. A cop friend of mine's paycheck comes from federal funding.

Clinton pushed for the Family and Medical Leave Act. He also signed Welfare Reform, which is how he was able to win a second term.

There are significant negative externalities too though. There was no internet until the mid 1990s, and no e-commerce until the late 1990s. I was speculating at the time that it would lead to massive offshoring. I was looked at like I was crazy. Well it's a fait accompli, and it has seriously adversely hurt lower skilled workers. Think call centers.

So Trump is going to make America great again. How does he do it though? He will have to go after both NAFTA and GATT especially on services. There are 90M able-bodied people out of work in the US. If he can get them back to work, our budget troubles are over. But he may have to bring many of those jobs back to the US.

Drlee wrote:I am tired of shills for the wealthy.

Clinton Foundation??? You seem wide awake and peppy.

Drlee wrote:Kasich could be half-assed OK but he wants to dismantle the PPACA and that is unacceptable both morally or politically.

PPACA will go the way of the dinosaurs. Maybe some of its provisions will live, but it will die an ignominious death, because that's what the people of the United States want.

Drlee wrote:I abhor the idea that either party might be in sole control of the government.

Trump is really an independent. We all know this, so it's not really relevant, because he's seen what Obama has done to Paul Ryan and John Boehner. Until Congress has a spine, there is little way they can beat a hardass president.

Drlee wrote:This is complete nonsense. There is not a shred of truth in it.

You maintained that people like me would fall in line behind Jeb Bush. It's gracious of you to admit that you were wrong, but you don't see it the same way we do. When Jeb Bush was called "anti-woman," he was falling all over himself. Trump doesn't do that. He fights right back. Even when Cruz tried to call him pro-abortion with Trump's stance on women's health via Planned Parenthood, Trump stood his ground. When Trump took the Democrat's anti-war agenda away from them--and this is going to be really interesting in the general election, because Hillary voted for the war--Jeb Bush was flummoxed. He couldn't answer Meagan Kelly. He couldn't answer Donald Trump. It did literally take him a week to figure out an answer when he should have had a pat answer ready at least a year in advance.

Drlee wrote:Give us a CREDABLE source for this. More nonsense.

It's pretty well established.

Just 7 percent of journalists are Republicans. That’s far fewer than even a decade ago.

Drlee wrote:Trump is playing ALL of the media like a piano. He is the master of free publicity.

But the attacks against him would kill off most other politicians, prescisely because there are no economic controls on Trump. So Trump has turned their game on its head. Not one of the people on TV making fun of Trump wants him to be president. Not one. But he gets free publicity, because he's exploiting the out-of-touch media leveraging anti-political-correctness and the anger of the American people.

Drlee wrote:Name an issue that Trump has introduced that was not already being discussed.

1. Trade deals: Nobody was talking about trade with China and Mexico.
2. Illegal immigration: The Democrat and Republican establishments were not serious about it. Trump easily put it center stage, and the timely and tragic death of Kate Steinly made put the American people on his side.
3. Taxing Hedgefunds: Nobody was talking much about that.

Drlee wrote:Mainstream media reflects the country's centrist leaning conservative bent. That sells soap. The right wing media, led by Fox News, is a corporatist tool. Nothing more.

FoxNews is only social conservative. It's just as big government fascist as the Democratic media.

Drlee wrote:I am amused at the far right folks who think he is some kind of arch conservative.

I don't think he's a conservative at all. I think he's not controlled by the establishment, which is making a lot of pundits wrong and irrelevant.

pugsville wrote:Are you not just cutting out the middle man and just electing the wealthy directed rather than their paid shills?

Not really. Trump is actually a pretty nice guy (unless you cross him), but he comes off as an asshole. By contrast, Warren Buffet is an asshole who comes off as a really nice guy. If you want to put the billionaire class into the White House, you'd be electing someone like Warren Buffet who will give lipservice to global warming, but then try to stop the Keystone XL pipeline to keep the oil flowing through his railroad--much more expensively, less efficiently, and less environmentally friendly; or buying NV Power and destroying the solar photovoltaic industry so that people have to buy fossil fuel generated electricity instead of using their solar panels. Their is a difference between being an asshole and acting like an asshole. Warren Buffet is an asshole, but Donald Trump just acts like an asshole.

Drlee wrote:As much as we would like to believe that our elections are "brokered" by the wealthy or tainted by prejudiced journalists the people are still able to make them pay attention.

They have had massive influence when they control both the money to candidates and the narrative. Trump has taken both away from them.

Drlee wrote:Watching the coverage, I have never seen so many journalists with blank faces. Trump won with Hispanics? That really got them. More votes than the next two combined?

Right. And you remember me saying he could very well win their vote? Legally resident immigrant Hispanics are the most hurt by illegally resident Hispanics. Their wages are being driven down too.

Drlee wrote:Whether Trump gets the nomination or not he and Sanders have scared the shit out of the Dems and GOP establishment.

And that is why they spy on us, use the IRS to go after the Tea Party, etc. They are more scared of us than they are of ISIS.

Zamuel wrote:Downsizing government, emphasizing efficiency and economy. If Al Gore had been allowed to continue that, I think it would have caught on.

That's a lot of bunk. Most of the downsizing was Newt Gingrich. As soon as he was gone, so was fiscal conservatism. Bush and Clinton are two sides of the same coin.

Drlee wrote:Clinton was a conservative. What part of that is hard for you to understand. So is his wife. She was on the board of Walmart FFS. Do pay attention. Turn off Fox News and try reading a little.

Right. And how do you feel about WalMart and how they treat their workers? You plan on voting for Hillary. Not that this is a surprise to me, but you say one thing and do another.

Zamuel wrote:Well, for a start ... That ain't Bernie Sanders sittin there dude ...

Democrats had lost 4 of the last 5 presidential elections, and that was set to sustain if they didn't change course. Hillary's (and Drlee's) support for Barry Goldwater was just what she needed to give credibility to the DLC Democrats.

If Hillary loses to Trump, there will be a whole lot of soul searching in both parties about what to do next.
#14655689
blackjack21 wrote:If Hillary loses to Trump, there will be a whole lot of soul searching in both parties about what to do next.

That's so far wrong, ... it's incredulous ... somewhere there is a Red Malfunction light flashing furiously ...

If Trump gets elected party officials on both sides are going to hear for the bunkers and won't come out for at least 2 years (just to see if anything is left) ... NO ONE can begin to envision where 4 -8 years of TRUMP will position America (beyond the fact that those left standing will probably be ready to shoot him on sight). Personnally, I would look for a "Hippy Revival" and a strong grass roots movement towards individual self sufficiency. (Did you save all those old -Mother Earth News- ? And, if you havn't still got one? Get a wire based Telephone installed ASAP and start digging out that old 24 baud modem.

Image

"Cave Sweet Cave"

Zam
#14682131
it was said.. There are 90M able-bodied people out of work in the US. If he can get them back to work, our budget troubles are over. But he may have to bring many of those jobs back to the US....

so, out of 318 million, 219 million of which are over 18, 90 million of those are out of work? like the other guy that drlee was trying to talk to...fact checking conservatives is a full time job..."prove it" the ultimate rwnj time waster.
#14682185
Out of 350 million people, 5% are out of work(according to the most recent statistics and unemployment rate) in the US. Simple math skills will bring that to about 17.5 million(not 90 million), out of whom several million are simple incapable of working.

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#14682215
First off, Trump should show his tax returns just like every other candidate. They tell a lot and since he is a pathological liar, it is very important. Trump is a bully that mocked a disabled person and lies about it the next day! He has a long history of shady business deals and court records prove his ties to the mob. He lied about being self funding . Do a fact check, it's all there. He never handed over the funds to the vets from his so called fundraiser. If you don't believe that, call the agencies. He ripped off his own city for millions with shady land deals and the taxpayers paid the price. He has a foundation for charities that he has not contributed to personally for years. He is still going to court on fraud charges. Did you realize he has agreed with Paul Ryan to dismantle social security when during the debates he said he never would ?He advocated torture but are you aware of the danger that places our soldiers in? Then he walked back on it during the debate because it was frowned on and the next day, when his red neck, uneducated supporters cheered him on, he reiterated it. You sound like you have a sixth grade education so I'm going to keep it simple: one more time, Hillary was cleared of any wrong doing in Benghazi after several hearings by the Republicans themselves. Why is this the only embassy attack that has become political? Are you aware of the other attacks that have happened under other Presidents? Are you aware that it was the republicans that denied the funds for extra security at that embassy ?
Do you care or are you just a complete hypocrite? Trump has no concept of macro economics . Out of money, just print more he says?! Tariffs on imported goods to penalize countries that go abroad or Mexico he says?! Real smart! So American consumers can't s
afford the products? He said the minimum wage was too high? My family are all in America and they are true patriots. They believe in freedom and equality, not just for Republicans. Trump is a thin skinned cry baby that can't deal with criticism without a tantrum. Today, a Chinese aircraft intercepted an American aircraft in an unsafe and possibly aggressive manner. Are we at war tonight? No. If Trump were President, his big mouth and overblown ego would have most certainly escalated things. He is a narcissist and he is playing supporters the same way ISIS plays their supporters. He is using fear and ignorance just as they do. If he's your guy, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Like · Reply · 74 · 18 hrs
#14682335
Second of all: He is not a Neoliberal of Reagan sort on economic issues.


Well he may not be in policy (if he has any real policies) but he is in spirit I think.

I bet 90% of his older supporters were big Reagan fans and like him for the same percieved reasons. Straight talking, patriot, swagger, honest, human.

Americans very much vote for heads of state over policy/ I find. This is noticible when comparing to us brits. Maybe this is the advantage of having a monarchy. It shields you from the personality cult types - at least a little?
#14682470
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample MoE Trump (R) Clinton (D) Spread
RCP Average 5/13 - 5/19 -- -- 43.4 43.2 Trump +0.2
ABC News/Wash Post 5/16 - 5/19 829 RV 3.5 46 44 Trump +2
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 5/15 - 5/19 1000 RV 3.1 43 46 Clinton +3
Rasmussen Reports 5/17 - 5/18 1000 LV 3.0 42 37 Trump +5
FOX News 5/14 - 5/17 1021 RV 3.0 45 42 Trump +3
CBS News/NY Times 5/13 - 5/17 1109 RV 3.0 41 47 Clinton +6


Hillary was well ahead of Trump by 8.5% in the last RCP average of polls in April but Trump is now leading Hillary by 0.2%. The ABC News/Wash Post poll may be the most accurate and unbiased, which gives Trump a 2% edge over Hillary. America elected Bush twice and I wouldn't be surprised, if we have Trump as the presumptive president-elect in November.

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