What do conservatives conserve? - Page 10 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Traditional 'common sense' values and duty to the state.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14989022
annatar1914 wrote:Wrong. Drlee is very much a Capitalist, from every conversation I've seen of him online he is very much a believer in private property control. I have tried to show you again and again what Socialism is, and you insist on improperly using that term. Socialism is public control of the means of production in a society, and I am a Socialist, Drlee most emphatically is not a Socialist.

And again, I am a young earth creationist, who believes the cosmos is a little over 7000 years old and was made in six days, and man came from two persons, man and woman made directly by God in His likeness and Image. I don't make a big deal about it because people are emotionally and intellectually invested in what they believe for the most part, and only God can convince.

Tell a man the truth, like I did to you about what Socialism is, and he doubts an hour later and returns to what he thought before.

I hope he is a capitalist, but when he responds to me he seems like a crazy liberal and most crazy liberals today are also socialists promoting open borders.
#14989030
Hindsite wrote:I hope he is a capitalist, but when he responds to me he seems like a crazy liberal and most crazy liberals today are also socialists promoting open borders.


Wrong about ''crazy liberals'' being Socialists, the two are different ideologies, and today's ''conservative'' is yesterday's ''liberal''.

And, real Socialists don't promote ''open borders'', because the immigrants are paid slave wages, and that deprives the working citizen even more of the means of existence, further fattening the Rich.
#14989059
Drlee wrote:So to believe that the world is 7000 years old you have to conclude that God lied to us. That he made creation to deliberately fool us. My God is not a liar.

The God that created Quantum Mechanics and the Uncertainty Principle, could certainly be considered to be somewhat economical with the truth.
#14989264
Rich wrote:The God that created Quantum Mechanics and the Uncertainty Principle, could certainly be considered to be somewhat economical with the truth.

Driee believes in a different god that could not create the universe in six literal days as written in holy scripture.
#14989285
No, I am pretty sure that @Drlee simply isn't stupid enough to think that a book made 2,000 years ago(when man didn't know fuckall about the world) has all the answers, to everything. FFS, you don't think god would leave a little for you to learn? :knife:

@Hindsite The Bible uses lots of metaphors and parables to tell stories, and much of it was not meant to be taken literally... like God making the earth in 6 days(something they probably made up since they didn't have any knowledge about how old things actually were).

Same God, except you'd like to remove all the mystery and take stupid things literally.

Do you still stone adulterers? If so why are you a Trump supporter? :lol:
#14989289
Godstud wrote:@Hindsite

Do you still stone adulterers? If so why are you a Trump supporter? :lol:

Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery. (John 8:3-11)
Praise the Lord.
#14989290
The women, but what about the men?

What about Biblical law?

Have you worked on the Sabbath? Do you wear blended cloth clothing?

See? it gets stupid fast, if you take things literally.
#14989294
Godstud wrote:The women, but what about the men?

What about Biblical law?

Have you worked on the Sabbath? Do you wear blended cloth clothing?

See? it gets stupid fast, if you take things literally.

You keep referring to the old covenant. Jesus instituted a new covenant with his body and blood.

https://margmowczko.com/the-covenant-meal/
#14989295
So just ignore everything before Jesus. :roll:

Oh for fuck's sake. Why do you even bother with the Bible, if the New Testament? Did Jesus say not to bother with everything that came before him? No.

Stop being a poe. It's getting old. :O
#14989298
Godstud wrote:So just ignore everything before Jesus. :roll:

Oh for fuck's sake. Why do you even bother with the Bible, if the New Testament? Did Jesus say not to bother with everything that came before him? No.

Stop being a poe. It's getting old. :O

From Hebrews 8:7, what was the fault with the first covenant?

Berry Kercheville The Old Law

There certainly was fault with the first covenant, but the fault was not with God or in the way He made the covenant, but with us. Hebrews 8:8 states that He found fault “with them.” The Law showed the way to righteousness (Romans 8:3-4), but righteousness could only be obtained if the Law were kept perfectly (Galatians 3:10). The fault then with the Law was that man could not keep it perfectly in order to obtain righteousness. And since the Law made no provision for the permanent forgiveness of sin (Hebrews 10:1), another covenant had to be brought, sanctified by the blood of Christ, that could provide for our salvation.

https://brentwoodchurch.com/what-was-fa ... venant.php
#14989300
So you are going by local church dogma and that of actual Christianity, and an interpretation by some dipshit.

OK. Dumb, but that's your right.


Baaaaaa....
#14989362
You posted a sermon by some dude named Berry Kercheville. How do you know that he knows more of God's mind than I do? Or the Pope and College of Cardinals? Or the entire leadership of the Methodist Church? Or the entire leadership of the Episcopal Church?

Do you worship God or Berry Kercheville?
#14989430
Drlee wrote:You posted a sermon by some dude named Berry Kercheville. How do you know that he knows more of God's mind than I do? Or the Pope and College of Cardinals? Or the entire leadership of the Methodist Church? Or the entire leadership of the Episcopal Church?

I do not know, but he agrees with my understanding of what I have been taught in the Baptist Church.
Drlee wrote:Do you worship God or Berry Kercheville?

I worship the great God and savior Jesus Christ.
Praise and glory to the Lord.
#14989434
I do not know, but he agrees with my understanding of what I have been taught in the Baptist Church.


Winston Churchill said,"The difference between a politician and a statesman is that the statesman agrees with you".
#14989453
In short, they conserve the privileges of the privileged.

What else can be said about what that means, not much.
#14997991
I tend to believe there are two kinds of conservatives:

The morally better ones try to conserve the current status quo, or the previous status-quo. I consider myself as such, though I am not necessarily moral.

The worse ones just want to conserve their rear end or the fulfillment of their greed.

Trump is slightly more to the former but after all most of him, and his team as a whole, are no doubt the latter. The same can be said for the current Tories in the UK.
#14997998
The paleocons are the only real conservatives left in American politics, the neocons are just liberals who oppose abortion:

"This silence about the Paleocons was the result, in part, of the abysmal ignorance of the writers of most such articles but also of the hidden purpose that lurked beneath much of what they wrote. That purpose was not so much to "deconstruct" and "expose" the Neocons as to define them as the real Conservative opposition, the legitimate (though deplorable and vicious) "right" against which the polemics and political struggle of the left should be directed. The reason the left prefers the neocon "right" to a paleo alternative is, quite simply, that the neocons are essentially of the left themselves and, thus, provide a fake opposition against which the rest of the left can shadowbox and thereby perpetuate its own political and cultural hegemony unchallenged by any authentic right."



The Conservative's traditional sympathy for the American South and its people and heritage, evident in the works of such great American Conservatives as Richard M. Weaver and Russell Kirk, began to disappear ... [T]he Neocons are heavily influenced by Woodrow Wilson, with perhaps a hint of Theodore Roosevelt. ... They believe in an aggressive U.S. presence practically everywhere, and in the spread of democracy around the world, by force if necessary. ... Neoconservatives tend to want more efficient government agencies; Paleoconservatives want fewer government agencies. [Neoconservatives] generally admire President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his heavily interventionist New Deal policies. Neoconservatives have not exactly been known for their budget consciousness, and you won't hear them talking about making any serious inroads into the federal apparatus.[6]

In discussing Neoconservatives' distinctive positions on state power, Irving Kristol wrote in 2003:

Neocons do not like the concentration of services in the welfare state and are happy to study alternative ways of delivering these services. But they are impatient with the Hayekian notion that we are on "the road to serfdom." Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state in the past century, seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable ... People have always preferred strong government to weak government, although they certainly have no liking for anything that smacks of overly intrusive government. Neocons feel at home in today's America to a degree that more traditional Conservatives do not. Though they find much to be critical about, they tend to seek intellectual guidance in the democratic wisdom of de Tocqueville, rather than in the Tory nostalgia of, say, Russell Kirk.
#14998050
Good post Sivad.

I recall Goldwater's quote: "I do not go to Washington to make it more efficient. I go there to make it smaller."

In Arizona and elsewhere neocon state legislatures are passing laws like crazy to limit the power of municipalities and counties. This is a direct liberal(ish) assault on the notion of smaller government and local control; both linchpins of the Goldwater/Buckley conservatism with which I was raised.

Neocons do not like the concentration of services in the welfare state and are happy to study alternative ways of delivering these services.


Neocons see these as nothing more than "pork" for a constituency and take no moral position on them at all though they claim to. Generally they see certain kinds of welfare (such as SNAP for example) as a constituency owned by democrats and other kinds such as farm subsidies as their own.

Today's democratic party under Bill and later Hillary Clinton is probably more classically conservative than is today's mess. (Some irony intended.)

Richard Nixon was the last mostly conservative president as he saw the rise of corporate power as an enemy to conservative values and was not afraid to embrace some more progressive ideas to preserve conservative social values.
  • 1
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
Trump and Russiagate

Deutsche Bank is Mr. Trump’s primary lender after […]

Capital Punishment

I wonder why you felt the need to inject race in[…]

The Next UK PM everybody...

What a crock of liberal minority appeasing left wi[…]

Most people learn basic psychology by experience,[…]