[Pants-of-dog]

Note that the thread and my argument are about the treatment of refugees by Parisian authorities and how ethnicity creates a double standard.

Discussions of foreign relations are not germane to the topic or my argument.

[Unthinking Majority]

I think there are double- standards that are sometimes racially based. Different races have different statistical outcomes in certain areas at the general population level statistically. Things like violent crime rates, income/ poverty. If east Asians statistically commited more crime, violence, and terrorist attacks than most other groups, followed a very misogynistic religion, and had lower education/ incomes than many other groups there's no doubt they would less embraced by westerners as migrants.

Many stereotypes are true at the general population level statistically, the problem is projecting these assumptions onto everyone at the individual level, which is essentially what a lot of discrimination and racism is, and is very unfair to the many people that fall outside of these generalizations.

[Pants-of-dog]

At this point, it seems that everyone agrees that the Parisian authorities are enacting a racist double standard, and so the protest is not without merit.

This can he deduced by the fact that people are now explaining why the Parisian authorities felt comfortable enacting this racist double standard.

[Unthinking Majority]

Note that the thread and my argument are about the treatment of refugees by Parisian authorities and how ethnicity creates a double standard.

Discussions of foreign relations are not germane to the topic or my argument.

Foreign relations are a factor is how westerners sympathize with different refugee situations. People tend to care more about refugee situations that also affect them. Russia invading Ukraine is not just a threat to Ukraine but to European interests. Europe is having energy and economic issues now as a result of the war. It is natural for Europeans to care more about Russia invading another European country than ie Afghanistan.

There are some racial elements though too, so some of those observations are fair. But it's not all about racism.

[Unthinking Majority]

At this point, it seems that everyone agrees that the Parisian authorities are enacting a racist double standard, and so the protest is not without merit.

This can he deduced by the fact that people are now explaining why the Parisian authorities felt comfortable enacting this racist double standard.

There's no proof it's a racist double standard. It might be. My comments were more for people in general. Whether Paris is racist I have no idea. What they are doing is a double standard based on country of origin, which can still be argued as unjust. Syrian refugees were also given preferential treatment by many western and European countries.

[Fasces]

Look, we may have colonized the entire Global South and ruined their economies for our own benefit - but have you considered that these refugees look like us?

[Unthinking Majority]

Look, we may have colonized the entire Global South and ruined their economies for our own benefit - but have you considered that these refugees look like us?

I bet people are more concerned if they "behave like us".

I don't think refugee policy should depend on country of origin, this seems unfair. However, I do think developed countries should be more picky in terms of screening for characteristics that are likely to produce bad outcomes among migrants. Education/skills and overall income potential, single vs married parents, and possibly beliefs about fundamental human rights in a liberal democracy etc.

The downtown in my city is being ruined because it is next to a low-income residential area filled with many low-income migrants, and their children go downtown every weekend to party and there's shootings and stabbings all the time now. This area used to be much safer 20 years ago. Characteristics that are most likely to produce such outcomes should be a factor in which migrants are accepted, and the others can be helped but ultimately relocated to a safe country with an economic profile more in line with their socio-economic profile.

[Fasces]

The downtown in my city is being ruined because it is next to a low-income residential area filled with many low-income migrants

I'm sure its in the intrinsic quality of the people.

This American backslide into us vs them tribalism is precisely the identity politics that make these shithole regions shitholes, and you lot don't even realize it. I welcome the return of tribal/clan-based/familial/kin politics that have made regions such as Somalia or Libya such bastions of stability, peace, and prosperity.

Luckily, the inability to see past race when defining "my people", a proud 500 year colonial tradition, is slowly dying out.

"Why won't these foreigners integrate into the culture" asks the man voting to keep them out of his schools, redline them into ghettos with other foreigners, and underfund their services.

[Pants-of-dog]

I bet people are more concerned if they "behave like us".

I don't think refugee policy should depend on country of origin, this seems unfair. However, I do think developed countries should be more picky in terms of screening for characteristics that are likely to produce bad outcomes among migrants. Education/skills and overall income potential, single vs married parents, and possibly beliefs about fundamental human rights in a liberal democracy etc.

Refugee policy, at this point, is not supposed to look at any of this, since it is based on need. Signatories to refugee conventions are supposed to give asylum based solely on need.

No one is asking Ukrainian refugees to show “Education/skills and overall income potential, single vs married parents, and possibly beliefs about fundamental human rights in a liberal democracy”, and therefore it is not egalitarian to demand swarthier refugees to do so.

The downtown in my city is being ruined because it is next to a low-income residential area filled with many low-income migrants, and their children go downtown every weekend to party and there's shootings and stabbings all the time now. This area used to be much safer 20 years ago. Characteristics that are most likely to produce such outcomes should be a factor in which migrants are accepted, and the others can be helped but ultimately relocated to a safe country with an economic profile more in line with their socio-economic profile.

The downtown in my city goes through periodic booms and busts that have more to do with the price of oil than with immigrants.

I highly doubt that the Hôtel de Ville in Paris found evidence of a verifiable link between swarthier refugees and crime that does not exist for Ukrainian refugees.

The whole thing can be made very simple. Should we accept Ukrainian refugees and try to help them? Yes, we should. Is there any reason to treat other refugees differently? No, there is not.

[Unthinking Majority]

:lol:

I'm sure its in the intrinsic quality of the people.

This American backslide into us vs them tribalism is precisely the identity politics that make these shithole regions shitholes, and you lot don't even realize it. I welcome the return of tribal/clan-based/familial/kin politics that have made regions such as Somalia or Libya such bastions of stability, peace, and prosperity.

Luckily, the inability to see past race when defining "my people", a proud 500 year colonial tradition, is slowly dying out.

"Why won't these foreigners integrate into the culture" asks the man voting to keep them out of his schools, redline them into ghettos with other foreigners, and underfund their services.

It's not about race at all. Skin colour is not a variable among humans that really has much if any meaning because it doesn't determine many if any outcomes. This is why racism is quite silly and totally illogical.

If you read my posts I wasn't referring to race, I was talking about characteristics amongst people that determines good and bad socioeconomic outcomes like crime, poverty etc. This includes variables such as education, skills, family structure etc. I have no issue with migrants generally, I have friends who were refugees, and I've probably met more refugees than anyone on this board. I do have issues with people of any race or country of origin (including my own) who commit crimes or raise children who commit crimes and make communities less safe. Why would I support importing people into my community with characteristics that are statistically likely to make it less safe and economically prosperous when there can be other options that can avoid this while still providing safe refuge for these people to meet their humanitarian needs?

From an ethical standpoint I owe these people the protection of their safety and basic human rights, I don't owe them anything beyond that.

[ckaihatsu]

It's not about race at all. Skin colour is not a variable among humans that really has much if any meaning because it doesn't determine many if any outcomes. This is why racism is quite silly and totally illogical.

If you read my posts I wasn't referring to race, I was talking about characteristics amongst people that determines good and bad socioeconomic outcomes like crime, poverty etc. This includes variables such as education, skills, family structure etc. I have no issue with migrants generally, I have friends who were refugees, and I've probably met more refugees than anyone on this board. I do have issues with people of any race or country of origin (including my own) who commit crimes or raise children who commit crimes and make communities less safe. Why would I support importing people into my community with characteristics that are statistically likely to make it less safe and economically prosperous when there can be other options that can avoid this while still providing safe refuge for these people to meet their humanitarian needs?

From an ethical standpoint I owe these people the protection of their safety and basic human rights, I don't owe them anything beyond that.

Someone needs to invent the *force field*, for *you*.

[Unthinking Majority]

Refugee policy, at this point, is not supposed to look at any of this, since it is based on need. Signatories to refugee conventions are supposed to give asylum based solely on need.

No one is asking Ukrainian refugees to show “Education/skills and overall income potential, single vs married parents, and possibly beliefs about fundamental human rights in a liberal democracy”, and therefore it is not egalitarian to demand swarthier refugees to do so.

Right. But I don't agree with parts of these refugee conventions. Temporary asylum should be based on need, but a country should have the right to choose who can permanently settle, as long as it's not discriminating based on racism, sexism, homophobia etc. Others can be relocated. What matters is they are safe from harm they are fleeing.

All refugees, including Ukrainians, should be admitted and accommodated based on the same criteria regardless of race or country of origin, so I agree with you there. I think politicians act on popular outrage like in Ukraine or Syria because they want votes, and for some reason they become prioritized because politicians want to signal their virtue.

The whole thing can be made very simple. Should we accept Ukrainian refugees and try to help them? Yes, we should. Is there any reason to treat other refugees differently? No, there is not.

I agree.

[Unthinking Majority]

Someone needs to invent the *force field*, for *you*.

That would be nice. In the last 5 years i've actually been a witness to 2 murders and one attempted murder. My city was never like this 20 years ago. These were 3 separate, isolated incidents, and all were perpetrated by impoverished refugees who were young men from developing countries of origin. They were all brandishing illegally acquired guns and other weapons.

Again, i'm not saying all or even most refugees are dangerous, that would be ridiculous, i'm just saying there's an issue here that hasn't been addressed which is making communities less safe. Personally I think that if you're caught with an illegal firearm you should be deported. I've never met a good person with good intentions who owns an illegal firearm.

[ckaihatsu]

That would be nice. In the last 5 years i've actually been a witness to 2 murders and one attempted murder. My city was never like this 20 years ago. These were 3 separate, isolated incidents, and all were perpetrated by impoverished refugees who were young men from developing countries of origin. They were all brandishing illegally acquired guns and other weapons.

Again, i'm not saying all or even most refugees are dangerous, that would be ridiculous, i'm just saying there's an issue here that hasn't been addressed which is making communities less safe. Personally I think that if you're caught with an illegal firearm you should be deported. I've never met a good person with good intentions who owns an illegal firearm.

I hear ya -- the ongoing administrative *handling* of refugees internationally has been *abysmal*, at *best*.

As you're indicating, leaving unresolved social situations / policy, becomes bad-news for everyone involved since nothing's really *clear* -- it's that kind of political administrative *destabilization* that the right-wing *strives* for -- like criminalizing immigrant-criminals, then immigrants, then asylum-seekers.

[Fasces]

Why would I support importing people into my community with characteristics that are statistically likely to make it less safe and economically prosperous when there can be other options that can avoid this while still providing safe refuge for these people to meet their humanitarian needs?

You're literally advocating for "separate but equal".

"Why won't these foreigners integrate into the culture" asks the man voting to keep them out of his schools, redline them into ghettos with other foreigners, and underfund their services.

[Unthinking Majority]

You're literally advocating for "separate but equal".

Based on what? Nothing im talking about has anything to do with race or country of origin. But you're trying to paint me as a racist for whatever reason. If you have a logical reason why my proposal is bad (or racist) please state your argument.

Also note that I'm agreeing with the migrants in Paris that the government has a double- standard based on country of origin which IMO is wrong.

[Unthinking Majority]

Fasces wrote:"Why won't these foreigners integrate into the culture" asks the man voting to keep them out of his schools, redline them into ghettos with other foreigners, and underfund their services.

BTW I never made any of these arguments above, nor do I agree with them.

[Pants-of-dog]

Right. But I don't agree with parts of these refugee conventions. Temporary asylum should be based on need, but a country should have the right to choose who can permanently settle, as long as it's not discriminating based on racism, sexism, homophobia etc. Others can be relocated. What matters is they are safe from harm they are fleeing.

All refugees, including Ukrainians, should be admitted and accommodated based on the same criteria regardless of race or country of origin, so I agree with you there. I think politicians act on popular outrage like in Ukraine or Syria because they want votes, and for some reason they become prioritized because politicians want to signal their virtue.

Then you agree with the protesters and think Paris is wrong.

I agree.

What city do you live in?

[ckaihatsu]

Arizona refuses US demand to remove containers along border

https://news.yahoo.com/arizona-refuses- ... 49597.html


New York Erects Tent City To House Migrants

Arizona fires back at Biden admin’s demand it remove shipping containers filling gaps at border

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/arizon ... aps-border

[ckaihatsu]

If the politicians care about the lives of the people they are suppose to govern(obviously they don't), they would send the millitary and physically remove these parasites Martha Vineyard style

Mass. moved quickly to help migrants shipped to Martha’s Vineyard; Advocates wonder why we don’t do it for ot

https://www.masslive.com/politics/2022/ ... thers.html


‘We’re all dispersed’: Migrants sent to Martha’s Vineyard have now settled throughout Eastern Mass.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/10/16/ ... tern-mass/


Bexar County sheriff certifies that migrants flown to Martha's Vineyard are crime victims, clearing path for special visas

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/13 ... ard-visas/


Migrants flown to Martha's Vineyard have filed a lawsuit against Gov. DeSantis

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/20/11241609 ... s-vineyard