[Blobby]

I don't get how American conservatives are always banging on about "the family" and "family values"

Do they actually think that people who are not conservatives don't have families? Or don't value the institution of the family?

Because that would be ridiculous

To me it sounds like they think that people who choose to get married and have kids (such as themselves and those whose votes and support they want) are superior to those who don't

I'm not a conservative but family is very important to me

According to conservatives this is impossible

They say that being gay is "anti-family" - so gay people don't love their parents, their siblings, their grandparents and their relatives???

I think this whole thing is silly

And what exactly are "family values"??

To me it seems as though it's a thing conservatives invoke to make themselves sound wholesome and virtuous and is essentially meaningless

I think it's a load of shoddy old rubbish, that's what I think

[Tainari88]

I don't get how American conservatives are always banging on about "the family" and "family values"

Do they actually think that people who are not conservatives don't have families? Or don't value the institution of the family?

Because that would be ridiculous

To me it sounds like they think that people who choose to get married and have kids (such as themselves and those whose votes and support they want) are superior to those who don't

I'm not a conservative but family is very important to me

According to conservatives this is impossible

They say that being gay is "anti-family" - so gay people don't love their parents, their siblings, their grandparents and their relatives???

I think this whole thing is silly

And what exactly are "family values"??

To me it seems as though it's a thing conservatives invoke to make themselves sound wholesome and virtuous and is essentially meaningless

I think it's a load of shoddy old rubbish, that's what I think

The conservatives in the USA basically believe in a lot of controversial stuff. Take the Mormon religion. Magic Underwear. Polygamy. Blacks are from Cain and cursed from the Bible. The bible is changed. It is a new version of the Bible. The book of Mormon. Jesus lived in the Southwest or places like Utah. Have a lot of kids because they are angels from heaven brought forth to become Mormons.

They have Mormons in Mexico. Mormons in Canada, Mormons in the USA. They are very conservative politically. Making a profit is important for Mormons.

Then you have Pentecostals. Speaking in tongues. Revivals. Televangelists. Oathkeepers.

Tammy Faye. Jimmy Swaggart. Child molesting priests in the RC church. You got everything there....conservative and family values.

The truth is that family values varies from one culture to the next. And it is about who sets the rules of the religion and how it is practiced.

Conservatives think that there is only one true religion. Theirs. And if you veer off from the path of truth, from the path of the truth, the light and the glory...you got ISSUES.

I would say intolerance is really problematic.

[Unthinking Majority]

I'm not going to make a stereotyping statement about progressives vs conservatives on family values because it isn't fair. Lots of conservatives are a-holes who cheat on their wives and there's a lot of progressives that are good family people.

I will say that a bunch of the changes progressives have spearheaded in our society since the 1960's have been taken too far by many though IMO and eroded family values and the family unit. Examples:

-Nothing inherently wrong with the sexual revolution and sex before marriage, but not being responsible with it and failing to use proper birth control has resulted in a large increase in single parent families and children growing up in poverty etc. It's been pretty devastating to some demographics like low income groups. The alternative are abortions which aren't exactly ideal either.

- Nothing inherently wrong with the right to get divorced, especially when bad abuse is happening, but it's also resulted in a vast increase in broken homes, and wedding vows seem to be taken less seriously.

- Nothing inherently wrong with free speech and free artistic expression for adults, but children being exposed to highly sexualized content like the WWE or certain music videos or Maury Povich episodes etc aren't exactly high points of our culture and have helped make society a lot more trashy.

- Nothing inherently wrong with women being able to work in any career they choose, but it also leaves more children in daycares and more seniors in retirement homes rather than being cared for by their families.

To make a generalized statement, I think progressives rightly have fought for more personal rights/freedoms, but the potential downsides of these new rights and the objections by conservatives of the day were typically ignored and the implementation poorly managed. Our rights seem to have been prioritized a lot more than our responsibilities. Many people are a lot more self-centered these days. Responsibilities are less important than as what makes people "feel" good.

[Puffer Fish]

Do they actually think that people who are not conservatives don't have families? Or don't value the institution of the family?

Because that would be ridiculous

There are many non-conservatives that have traditional families, but a large percentage also don't.

And since conservatives started railing about "family values" in the 80s, the percentage of non-conservatives who have totally abandoned those type of values has dramatically increased, almost to the point where among the younger generation it has become the norm to not have traditional "family values", if they are not conservative.

Although there has been a big (but smaller by comparison) shift on the conservative-voting side too.


related thread: Percentage of U.S. Democrats who are religious has dropped over last 20 years (posted in North America, 25 Sep 2023 )

[late]

And since conservatives started railing about "family values" in the 80s, the percentage of non-conservatives who have totally abandoned those type of values has dramatically increased, almost to the point where among the younger generation it has become the norm to not have traditional "family values", if they are not conservative.

Most of that comes from the growing income inequality, which Republicans keep making worse.

[Puffer Fish]

Most of that comes from the growing income inequality, which Republicans keep making worse.

Many would disagree with you.
Both about how much of the deterioration in family structure is cultural, rather than economic.
And in which political side is the one more responsible for making things economically more difficult to have families... specifically referring to the Left's policies on the areas of Trade and Immigration, and the resulting effects those policies have on the economy.


You can read the opinion article quoted in the second post in this thread:
Starter homes so expensive, young professionals are opting out of trying to buy a home (posted in Europe, 28 Aug 2023 )

[late]

Many would disagree with you.

They would be wrong.

One of the things I spent time looking into was the role of economics in history.

It's not what you would call small..

Then there is the question of demographics, the boomers are the largest generation in American history, when they became adults, you had too many people chasing not enough jobs.

I was there. It is completely not coincidental that I wound up studying the influence of economics of history.

Look, I don't much care that you read idiots. Most are, even most authors, but blindly following them?

[Tainari88]

Money, Profits, and Church values and Mormonism:

They have a lot of scandals. Recent ones too.

They got issues folks. But they are about family values.

[Puffer Fish]

They would be wrong.

Sounds like the topic of debate for another separate thread, which political side is to blame (or which side is more to blame) for people not being able to afford families.

Start the thread and leave the link here if you want to debate it.

[Robert Urbanek]

Money, Profits, and Church values and Mormonism:

They have a lot of scandals. Recent ones too.

They got issues folks. But they are about family values.

Utah has the ninth-highest life expectancy in the U.S., according to the CDC. Generally, moral living is healthy living.

[late]

Sounds like the topic of debate for another separate thread, which political side is to blame (or which side is more to blame) for people not being able to afford families.

Start the thread and leave the link here if you want to debate it.

I go over regularly about how most Americans are reactionary.

This is different, you are simply wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/Price-Inequality-Divided-Society-Endangers/dp/0393345068/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3DZRKJ0LJXHSN&keywords=stiglitz&qid=1706711748&sprefix=stiglitz%2Caps%2C114&sr=8-3

[Tainari88]

Utah has the ninth-highest life expectancy in the U.S., according to the CDC. Generally, moral living is healthy living.

No, I do not think it is moral living that makes them live longer. It is being in a large and socially active community with shared rules. The more socially active you are, and more social responsibilities you have? The longer your life expectancy. Also having a housewife or housewives in a home cleaning, cooking and taking care of laundry for you? And thinking you are the leader of a tribe called the family is a great thing.

It gives your life meaning. Nothing wrong with tithing. The problem is that the people giving them 10% of their lifetime income being invested and not spent on helping the poor and destitute in all the nations the Mormon church has missions in is IMMORAL.

They are investing in mundane society. Not religious society. The Mormons have big strengths. Living communally and having constant social obligations are very important for a long and meaningful life.

It is not exclusive to them. The Seventh Day Adventists in Loma Linda California USA have some of the longest-living people in the world. They are vegetarians and very socially active as well, without the magic underwear-controlling behaviors and thinking that Jesus lived in Utah, USA.

You need to be more analytical with your assessments Robert.

I find most of your posts basically worthless. Lack of depth of analysis. And also obviously prejudiced, borderline racist as well as sexist, and incredibly foolish in general.

One very well-documented documentary on the history of the Church of Latter Day Saints (the Mormons), basically proves that the church was like a cult. Also, mafioso, and violent with vendettas in a way that reminded people of the Italian mafia.

The Mormons are shamelessly arrogant too. They went to France hoping to be successful converting the French into that religion. They were telling the French to not drink wine, it was sinful and many other things that were frowned upon. The French giving up wine in general is a deal breaker. It is an integral part of being a Frenchman or Frenchwoman. Many French people are not religious fanatics in the Roman Catholic religion which is their traditional Christian faith. Very few are going to believe Jesus lived in Utah and that Joseph Smith was the prophet that inherited the Christian historical covenant.

It is obvious fake crap. But? Religion is about MYTH.

The USA voted in a Christian Protestant Black president like Obama with a Kenyan last name before voting in for a Mormon white guy with a European last name like Mitt Romney. WHY? Because the Mormons are strange in behavior. Many people do not like pushy missionaries. Mitt Romney's relatives live in Mexico in the North of Mexico. Some Cartel knew they were rich and decided to kidnap some Mormons and hold them for ransom. They came together and kicked those Drug dealer corrupt freaks in the ASS hard. They never messed with them again. Why? SOLIDARITY and being together as one in purpose. That is universally very powerful. Not just because they are Mormons.

Solidarity and loyalty to a group of people who share values, norms and behavioral expectations is one of the most if not the most powerful concept the world will ever know.

That is why if the money had gone to educating poor people, building homes, and creating wealth in poor nations without any need to have religious strings attached to it? They would have been one of the best social and religious movements in the entire WORLD.

Just 10% taxation on 16 million people for poor nations struggling with basic necessities could transform the entire world. But instead you have greed, mundane selfish shit and exploitation and that is why the world remains without needed change. Rotten values in ACTION. Not about ideas of God. But not applying spirituality to concrete material conditions. It is all hot air and hypocrisy.

That convinces no one over time. Only the ones who really do believe in sharing all with the least of humanity will truly be non hypocritical in their myth love. Or in other words their religious faith.