Free Speech gone in Scotland - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15308434
Free Speech Gone in Scotland

Next month, the infamous Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act finally comes into force. Essentially, it allows the courts to jail individuals for up to seven years for saying, writing or posting any comment that is deemed to "stir up hatred" against a protected group, including disability, race, religion and, inevitably, transgender identity.

While the Bill was making its way through the Scottish Parliament, the then Justice minister, one Humza Yousaf, amended the draft legislation to remove the risk that directors or promoters of performances could be charged with an offence.
Despite this, leaked training material produced from Police Scotland suggests the force will specifically target performers, with officers advised that offending material could be communicated "through public performance of a play".

J.K. Rowling was recently reported to Northumbria Police by trans activist India Willoughby after the TV presenter was allegedly "misgendered" by the Harry Potter author, who referred to Willoughby as "he". Perhaps surprisingly, officers in Northumbria chose not to act, but activists have already been encouraging each other to make full use of the SNP’s new legislation to bring Rowling, who is a resident of Edinburgh, to heel.

The threshold that complaints must meet is that anything said by the accused would be deemed "by a reasonable person" to be threatening or inciting of hatred. But in today's culture wars, "reasonable people" are hard to identify. The judgment, ultimately, becomes a subjective one, and any law that hinges on anyone’s, even a judge's, subjectivity, is a bad law.

The Edinburgh Festival Fringe, once at the cutting edge of risqué and, yes, offensive drama and humour, has already started to suffer from the disapproval of our hypersensitive cultural overlords.

George Orwell has been cited too often whenever governments are deemed to have gone too far on restricting civil rights, including the right to freedom of expression. Scotland has created a dystopia in which true freedom of speech can now only be practiced at the cost of one's career and even one's freedom.

Scotland is no longer a free country, by Tom Harris, The Telegraph, 20 March 2024

Back in 1997, it was argued extending semi-autonomy to a new Scottish Parliament could allow the experimentation with innovative new legislation which would show the rest of the United Kingdom how things could be done. The British government in Westminster, with its backwardness and institutional conservatism, would be exposed as the dinosaur it was, the reasoning went. Scotland, in particular, would lead the way.

Well, now we are seeing the results of this.

Rather than creating more freedom for Scotland, just the opposite has happened.

As Cicero stated, "The more laws, the less justice."
And Parliaments seem to have nothing better to do than to think up more laws and new freedoms to take away.


A great irony is, by creating their own Parliament with semi-autonomy, the Scottish wanted to be free of the tyranny of the English, but they have only placed themselves under their own tyranny.
#15308437
@Puffer Fish at least it is not a rape topic. But if J.K. Rowling is raped I am sure you will report it. And use the pronoun She to identify her. :D
#15308451
@Tainari88

Manufacturing outrage ...

If @Puffer Fish were being clever, she would use the pronoun 'he' to identify Ms. Rowling, spread the rumour online that Ms. Rowling is Mr. Rowling a self-hating transexual, wait a few days until the story was picked up by Mr. Harris's Telegraph, then use it to post a thread on PoFo about the immorality of the Scots and how disgusting it is a pervert can get to be the world's #1 children's writer.

It's the bigger story.


:lol:

p.s. Why so many edits? Who knew that writing a run-on sentence, and using the correct pronouns (and tenses), could be so confusing.

p.p.s. In Scotland, the number of transgender hate crimes recorded by the police rose by 87% in 2022.
Last edited by ingliz on 21 Mar 2024 08:51, edited 14 times in total.
#15308452
Puffer Fish wrote:Free Speech Gone in Scotland

The threshold that complaints must meet is that anything said by the accused would be deemed "by a reasonable person" to be threatening or inciting of hatred. But in today's culture wars, "reasonable people" are hard to identify. The judgment, ultimately, becomes a subjective one, and any law that hinges on anyone’s, even a judge's, subjectivity, is a bad law.

That’s just how we do law in Britain, @Puffer Fish - the concept of a “reasonable person” and judicial subjectivity is baked into our legal system, and always has been.

A great irony is, by creating their own Parliament with semi-autonomy, the Scottish wanted to be free of the tyranny of the English, but they have only placed themselves under their own tyranny.

Placing oneself under one’s own tyranny is precisely what freedom is, @Puffer Fish.
#15308485
The Liberals say free speech must end or millions will die, needlessly trampled to death in Cinemas and theatres. I'm interested to know exactly how many people die each year in Britain and the world as a whole, trampled to death, when someone shouts "fire" when in fact there is no fire. I guess we should also consider serious life changing injuries from these events. I'm interested to know, because , free speech restriction after free speech restriction after free speech restriction is justified by the need to protect cinema goers. They say support for free speech is tantamount to condoning murder of cinema goers. So lately I've started to wonder is this really as a big a problem as the Liberals are making out.
#15308501
Potemkin wrote:That’s just how we do law in Britain, @Puffer Fish - the concept of a “reasonable person” and judicial subjectivity is baked into our legal system, and always has been.


Placing oneself under one’s own tyranny is precisely what freedom is, @Puffer Fish.


I really liked that last sentence in reply to Puffer Fish's comments.

I wonder are you a reasonable person eh? Could you go and be a juror on a reasonable trial made by a subjective judge eh?

All this subjective and reasonable mixed together puts the final result tyranny into question Potemkin. :lol:

Free speech is over in Scotland. Now it is only about people who want to build golf courses in Scotland.



I say you take that asshole Trump to Scotland. His mother is Scottish. You produced one of the greatest assholes the world has ever known.

Please repatriate that horror of a man and let him have free speech. Pomp and circumstance is what defines the Scottish character. He said that.

Nothing conman and American brash talk about him eh? He is all Scottish. You love him. Free speech.
#15308528
Free speech , in the UK , doesn't by law exist in quite the same sort of absolute way that is does in the United States .

Under Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998, “everyone has the right to freedom of expression” in the UK. The law goes on to say that this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society."These may be “in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.” Hate Speech

A number of different UK laws outlaw hate speech. For example, section 4 of the Public Order Act 1986 makes it an offence for a person to use “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviours that causes, or is likely to cause, another person harassment, alarm or distress”. This law also includes language that is deemed to incite “racial and religious hatred” as well as “hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation” and language that “encourages terrorism”.

In recent times, there has been a growing debate over whether the UK needs more hate speech laws. The Law Commission has consulted on proposed changes to hate crime laws in England. One of the proposals was to drop the 'dwelling defence' from the Public Order Act, however following a backlash from groups like CARE, the Commission decided against removing it. It is preparing to submit a 500-page review of existing laws and make suggestions for further changes. https://care.org.uk/cause/religious-liberty/free-speech-law






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