[Puffer Fish]

The real question I have in my mind is WHY did the U.S. government loan this young man $250,000 ?

It seems in the late 90s and early 2000s, society was convinced these student loans were a good idea, no questions asked.

The reasoning went that if money was loaned to some students, they could later repay it, and it would then in turn be used again to lend to the next generation of students.

But this student was unable to repay the $250,000 that was given to him. And now, under the Biden Administration, that loan has been FORGIVEN. It is never going to be repaid now.

What a colossal waste many of these student loans were. And maybe not the best idea, lending out gigantic sums of money to very young adults who had no idea what they wanted to do in life.

Here's an article about one of these students:

"
Joel Lambdin, 49, received $250,000 in student-loan forgiveness in January. Lambdin said the relief will allow him to save for retirement while considering longer term dreams.

Joel Lambdin finished graduate school in 1998 -- but as a professional musician, he was hardly making enough money to pay off his student loans and his other bills.

So Lambdin, now 49, said his only option to make ends meet was to put his student loans on forbearance -- in which he was not making payments, but interest was still accumulating. "It was just so that I could subsist, so that I could survive," Lambdin told Business Insider. "With the hope that at some point, I would be making enough money that I would be able to take them out of forbearance and start paying them down."

But he grew to realize that the only way he could make a significant dent in his student loans was by switching careers. Since he didn't want to do that because he loved working in music, he decided to keep his larger student loan in forbearance and begin paying off his smaller loan with a lower monthly payment.

He continued making those payments until the pandemic student-loan payment pause. He discovered the Education Department's account adjustment initiative, which allowed the department to evaluate borrowers' accounts and update payment progress toward forgiveness on income-driven repayment plans and Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

The account adjustment led to Lambdin receiving a letter (reviewed by Business Insider) from his student-loan servicer Aidvantage on January 31 stating: "Congratulations! The Biden-Harris Administration has forgiven your federal student loan(s) listed below with Aidvantage in full."
That meant his $249,255 outstanding student-loan balance was effectively wiped out.​
"

"A Gen Xer who got $250,000 in student loans forgiven said he can now finally start saving for retirement -- and consider his dream of studying in India Story", by Ayelet Sheffey, Business Insider, April 21, 2024
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to- ... enx-2024-4


This story is outrageous, probably more outrageous and extreme than the typical individual story involving student loan forgiveness. But I think it touches on some of the wackiness and irresponsibility so typical of the Left, because many on the Left will read this story and not care in the least. Probably many on the Left even totally approve of what happened here.

[Tainari88]

Good for him! I would rather spend $249,000 dollars on him than on some bombs and a tank to go and kill innocent people in some useless war.

Money well spent. liberation and a chance at a life and a future for a man that is almost with half his lifespan gone. Now he can be thinking about buying a little house or apartment and maybe being able to be saving for retirement. He went to graduate school. He was a good student.

A good thing. Relieving mental and financial stress. Better than TRILLIONS on useless ass wars like in Afghanistan to be left in the dust the people there with the Taliban in charge and Hillary R. Clinton saying this:

[Fasces]

If he was never going to pay it back, what's the difference between forgiving it or not? Is this about saving money or punishment?

[wat0n]

Who takes the loss? This seems like a distribution of wealth issue.

[Tainari88]

If he was never going to pay it back, what's the difference between forgiving it or not? Is this about saving money or punishment?

You know that student loan debt can't be charged off or forgiven with bankruptcy court like medical debt or consumer debt can be. You are stuck with it till it is paid off.

You also can't really buy a house or an apartment or condo or anything like that with that amount of student debt. Never. So many never get married, have kids or even get on with a retirement account. They can't. Not enough money after paying for bills and student loans that have a lot of years of interest accumulated.

It is a big problem. How many young people need to get married, buy a house and have kids? A lot. But many can't because financially it is impossible due to loans that are even a lot smaller like $15k. It is bad.

Forgiving loans frees up the younger college people to go out and be able to invest in themselves.

[Rancid]

Sounds good to me. If we can bail out banks, give out big ass tax cuts to corporations, why can't we help people?

I think more of this debt should be forgiven.

[Puffer Fish]

Good for him!
...
Money well spent. liberation and a chance at a life and a future for a man that is almost with half his lifespan gone.

People like you seem unable to see the problem with this. Step back and look at the big picture.

A huge amount of money was loaned to this person, when they were a very young adult in life.

It's obvious this person did not make the best decisions with that money. He found himself at a point that it would be very difficult and financially crippling to repay the money. The loan would be ruinous to his life.

At this point, neither of the two options are good. He could try to repay, which would put him under a tremendous amount of pressure and financial strain, which he will likely never be able to fully repay anyway. Or the taxpayer can take the loss.
Remember, this money was only given with the understanding that it would eventually be paid back. And I think no one disputes this was not a good choice to spend taxpayer money on. It didn't really provide any financial benefit to him or increase his earning power. And even if some view it as a benefit to pay for one lucky person's educations, $250,000 is still a ridiculous amount of money to spend on college education. That could have almost bought a small entire house at the time he borrowed it.

The thing is, all that money should have never been loaned to him in the first place. Not under these circumstances. It was a waste when it was spent. The only question now is who pays for it.

[Fasces]

People like you seem unable to see the problem with this. Step back and look at the big picture.

A huge amount of money was loaned to this person, when they were a very young adult in life.

It's obvious this person did not make the best decisions with that money. He found himself at a point that it would be very difficult and financially crippling to repay the money. The loan would be ruinous to his life.

Sometimes, investments don't work out.

At this point, neither of the two options are good.

On the one hand, he may be a debt slave for life. On the other hand, taxpayers may each have to pay $0.00007 for a failed investment.

Damn, this is tough. If only this were a war in the Middle East or Donald Trump's hotel expenses, this dastardly trolley problem would be a bit easier.

[AFAIK]

No one lent him $250k, 250 is the size of the debt after 25 years of compound interest.

[late]

Republicans did this.

They 'reformed' meaning kids got screwed sideways and businesses get kid glove treatment.

Bankruptcy judges and academics said it was a terrible idea, and it is. But banks wanted it, and in this day and age what the rich want, the rich get.

Student debt got handed over to the private sector, and you can't discharge student debt in bankruptcy. Which is insane.

At the same time, the Bankruptcy Reform Act treats business like royalty. Which is corrupt and short sighted, but not insane.

[Tainari88]

People like you seem unable to see the problem with this. Step back and look at the big picture.

A huge amount of money was loaned to this person, when they were a very young adult in life.

It's obvious this person did not make the best decisions with that money. He found himself at a point that it would be very difficult and financially crippling to repay the money. The loan would be ruinous to his life.

At this point, neither of the two options are good. He could try to repay, which would put him under a tremendous amount of pressure and financial strain, which he will likely never be able to fully repay anyway. Or the taxpayer can take the loss.
Remember, this money was only given with the understanding that it would eventually be paid back. And I think no one disputes this was not a good choice to spend taxpayer money on. It didn't really provide any financial benefit to him or increase his earning power. And even if some view it as a benefit to pay for one lucky person's educations, $250,000 is still a ridiculous amount of money to spend on college education. That could have almost bought a small entire house at the time he borrowed it.

The thing is, all that money should have never been loaned to him in the first place. Not under these circumstances. It was a waste when it was spent. The only question now is who pays for it.

No, I do see the big picture. I see that the universities are charging way too much for inferior educations. Especially the for profit universities who pay professors with terminal degrees really low salaries with no benefits or security. Exploiting the hell out of educators who enjoy the teaching profession and who love students and how to get them educated. They pay those people pittances and administrators and politically motivated bureaucrats a lot of money. Some of the Uni presidents make millions of dollars and also are treated like corporate CEOs. It is a skewed system. The banks know most Americans want their children to get college degrees because it is a ticket to 'middle class status' and if they are middle class already, they want to climb higher. So the banks know this and they think how much money can we hook these people into with interest? The government used to give out Perkins loans that were very low interest rates. They also used to give out the BEOG grants. Did not have to pay those back. They were for costs related to tuition and books. They used to cover large portions of your college costs back in the day.

What happened to the BEOG and the Perkins loans? The private banks saw the $$$$$$$$$$ in millions of college students and their parents who wanted educated professionals making a secure financial future as a way of enslaving them for greater returns. They pressured the politicians in DC to allow mostly private loans for students, change the laws making it legal to market to students on campus directly these high-interest instruments, encouraged cutting back on BEOG for low-income students, and they also encouraged laws making it illegal to charge off student loans. Consumer loans are allowed to declare bankruptcy and your credit recovers in seven years or ten years for bankruptcy and then you are free to build good credit again in the USA and allowed to buy homes, etc. They manipulated the laws through banking lobbies and the politicians were sellouts and did not care about the long-term ramifications for students burdened with student loan debt for years.

In fact, the college graduates would mainly would not be able to reach middle class status if they had to pay the increasingly high interest rates of these private bank based student loans. Many were as high as credit cards in the 17%-21% APR. Imagine getting a 10k loan a year to cover rising tuition costs and books and you are there for a bachelor's degree and it is a 120 credit BA? You owe $40,000 but you do not land a good job for three years and the debt balloons?

$40,000 with 17% the first year you are out of college? An additional $6,800 in interest payments alone. You break it down in monthly payments for a year? You are looking at over $550 dollars a month for a college graduate undergrad. That is a luxury car payment right there, and it is not even the principal you are paying off. You are paying off just the bank charging you for taking out the student loan in the first place. They tack on fees from the front end too. So by the time you get to paying down the principal you are talking mortgage amounts of payments. That money is LOCKED up for a long time. Away from the student who studied.

It is a racket.

Imagine that kind of financial pressure to produce. Because they thought it was a good idea to get some reasonable loan to cover the rising costs of college tuition. That never goes to the professors by the way but to a bunch of administrators and bankers.

It is horrible.

So no. Fuck those people. They are getting paid anyway through the US taxpayer. Who bails them out when they make sketchy decisions with junk bonds and hedge funds and ripoffs? But they hate some students getting the 'responsibility' lifted off of them.

Fucking hypocritical vultures.

And you are on their side Puffer Fish?

You must be a rich fucking banker living the high life wanting more people to suck their financial blood out of so you can feel superior to them in the middle-class dreams of all these people eh?

To hell with that!

[late]

This story is outrageous, probably more outrageous and extreme than the typical individual story involving student loan forgiveness. But I think it touches on some of the wackiness and irresponsibility so typical of the Left, because many on the Left will read this story and not care in the least. Probably many on the Left even totally approve of what happened here.

For once, I agree, this is outrageous.

Now if you only had a clue as to why...

[Pants-of-dog]

Forgiveness of this loan is only a bad thing if we assume that all people should have to suffer as much as we did; as if this fellow should have to live with lifelong debt or not follow his dreams simply because so many of us have had to do that.

No. Misery loves company, but it is not moral to require others to share it.

[late]

Forgiveness of this loan is only a bad thing if we assume that all people should have to suffer as much as we did; as if this fellow should have to live with lifelong debt or not follow his dreams simply because so many of us have had to do that.

No. Misery loves company, but it is not moral to require others to share it.

Students and people that get hit by massive medical debt (meaning the people that get into the most trouble) got pushed out of Chapter 7 and into Chapter 13.

13 is more punitive, and expects a substantial part of the debt be repaid. But if you're retired, and your wife's cancer treatment saddled you with a million dollar bill, that is little different from having Roto Rooter shoved up your butt.

[Tainari88]

Students and people that get hit by massive medical debt (meaning the people that get into the most trouble) got pushed out of Chapter 7 and into Chapter 13.

13 is more punitive, and expects a substantial part of the debt be repaid. But if you're retired, and your wife's cancer treatment saddled you with a million dollar bill, that is little different from having Roto Rooter shoved up your butt.

Also, I would never have been allowed to immigrate to Mexico if I owed a penny to anyone in the USA. If you have debt, and it is substantial? And you try to get a visa? For another nation and you have fairly high student loans, medical debts, credit card debts, car loan debts, mortgages that you have not sold off? You are in deep shit and they will never allow you to leave. A prisoner of debt in the USA.

The only ones who get golden visas and the freedom to roam around looking for good deals are capitalists with money.

They get all kinds of internationalist freedom. Students with big debt burdens can't dump it all and go to Mexico. Lol.

It is like being in a slave debt system in the USA. The US is the only government out of most industrialized nations that want you to keep paying US taxes even if you stopped living in the US. They never let you stop paying them taxes even though you do not live in their territory anymore. You wind up paying the taxes to the US and to the country you live in.

They keep you paying. The only way out of that are the super rich and or upper class middle and upper class only. Who move around their money to tax shelter nations like the Cayman Islands, or Bermuda or Panama.

It is appalling the lack of fairness to that system.

[Tainari88]

Who takes the loss? This seems like a distribution of wealth issue.

I would vote for you to not have to pay back a penny of any of your student loans at all. If you get married I would be all for you and the novia getting a tax credit to help you buy some property in your city and also make sure if you have kids you get your novia help the first few months France style with a clean up person and someone helping out while you bring home the bacon.

Also, would love to make sure you have free dental care, eye care and physicals and check ups. Without burdening anyone there in your household.

I would also be in favor of free transportation bus and train passes for that Windy City and also guaranteed paid vacations that last at least a month once a year for the entire family and you get to choose anywhere in the world.

Make life livable for the people who are going to be working until retirement age for the nation that you are a part of. Real benefits. Not burdens and worries and depressed people who can't afford a nice little wedding and honeymoon or plans for the future.

[wat0n]

I would vote for you to not have to pay back a penny of any of your student loans at all. If you get married I would be all for you and the novia getting a tax credit to help you buy some property in your city and also make sure if you have kids you get your novia help the first few months France style with a clean up person and someone helping out while you bring home the bacon.

Also, would love to make sure you have free dental care, eye care and physicals and check ups. Without burdening anyone there in your household.

I would also be in favor of free transportation bus and train passes for that Windy City and also guaranteed paid vacations that last at least a month once a year for the entire family and you get to choose anywhere in the world.

Make life livable for the people who are going to be working until retirement age for the nation that you are a part of. Real benefits. Not burdens and worries and depressed people who can't afford a nice little wedding and honeymoon or plans for the future.

We are all burdened, @Tainari88. All the things you mention cost money, and that means the taxpayer foots the bill.

I also don't expect the US taxpayer to pay for my student debt, since I did not take the loan in the US. That is definitely not fair for the US taxpayer given the US taxpayer would not have access to the Chilean banking system to take student loans.

For the other things you mentioned? I'm open for discussion, but at least my personal student loan situation shouldn't be the business of the US taxpayer and I'm OK with that. Not that it's a big deal, I'll be done 3 years from now.

[Fasces]

The problem is that loan forgiveness is so unequally applied in the US.

I know, personally, several individuals that had PP Loans forgiven. PP Loans that they took out during the Pandemic to cover salaries for some workers. And with the money they saved on payroll, gave themselves a little bonus and paid off their student loans. Indirect loan forgiveness, but only for business owners.

I respect the hustle. But when it comes to FAFSA loans, I think most US conservatives are more in a mindset of 'teach dem liberal college graduates a lesson' than 'long-term fiscal thinking'.

[late]

The problem is that loan forgiveness is so unequally applied in the US.

I know, personally, several individuals that had PP Loans forgiven. PP Loans that they took out during the Pandemic to cover salaries for some workers. And with the money they saved on payroll, gave themselves a little bonus and paid off their student loans. Indirect loan forgiveness, but only for business owners.

I respect the hustle. But when it comes to FAFSA loans, I think most US conservatives are more in a mindset of 'teach dem liberal college graduates a lesson' than 'long-term fiscal thinking'.

If Republicans did long term thinking, they wouldn't be doing most of the crap they are doing.

[late]

We are all burdened, @Tainari88. All the things you mention cost money, and that means the taxpayer foots the bill.

That's what bankruptcy is for.

What happens now is the people that get hammered the worst get the least help. People that are well off, and esp. business, get treated like royalty. The idea of having bankruptcy is to keep from ruining lives. Yet that is exactly what happens every day now, and the people who aren't getting ruined get special treatment.

Doesn't make sense.