Are we getting stupider? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14779335
noemon wrote:I think that overall people are getting stupider indeed.

That is I think that if you take people like for like, for example the average intelligence of mathematicians from the past and compare them to mathematicians today, I think that the ones in the past would beat the modern ones and the same would happen if you took past farmers vs modern farmers, I think the ones from the past would be more intelligent than their modern counterparts. The cause for this in my opinion is the simplification of modern learning methods as well as the breakup of the sciences putting an emphasis to the particular rather than the encyclopaedic.

However it should be noted that more people are educated today than they were in the past and so the general average has certainly risen. That would mean that the uneducated of the past were a larger percent than the uneducated of the modern world but is irrelevant when one compares only like for like. I maintain that the people who hold equivalent amounts of education were more intelligent in the past than in the modern times.

I agree. People rely so much on computers to do even basic calculations.

I have noticed that today's cars are programmed to detect obstacles and traffic jams. Whatever happened to being observant and watching out for our own safety? People cannot even trust their own judgment?

This is making us duller and weaker.

My parents encourage me to do my own math and trust my judgment. And I have logged a lot of hours driving in my 14 years of driving so I am pretty confident and focused behind the wheel. I do not need technology to brake for me or be my eyes. Technology can have hiccups now and then so it is not 100% reliable.
#14779411
I don't think I am ready to trust a car to drive for me. However, I do like the GPS instead of looking up a route on a map.
I also might like a car to stop automatically to prevent driving into an object.
#14779418
Hindsite wrote:I don't think I am ready to trust a car to drive for me. However, I do like the GPS instead of looking up a route on a map.
I also might like a car to stop automatically to prevent driving into an object.


Until it makes a mistake on the Interstate and I get rear ended by a semi. :( A computer can not possibly make these decisions as well as I can. I can see them being of value to inattentive drivers, but I can also see them interfering with a human trying to make superior judgement calls. Sometimes you need to not brake and swerve when someone stops in front of you to avoid the inattentive person behind you.
#14779425
One Degree wrote:
A computer can not possibly make these decisions as well as I can.


When I could beat all the computers at chess, I thought like that too.
But as I've grown older and some chess programs for computers have reached grandmaster level play, I no longer feel like that.
They can also do accurate mathematical calculations much faster than anyone i know. However, I don't think the programming level is equal to driving a car as well as a competent human at this time. But that could change.
#14779439
With respect, 'education' is information input, what comes out is more often than not rather different.

In the past, 'education' was not of such great importance, it was rather a case of 'accident of birth' or, 'it's not what you know, it's who you know', that determines how well one does in life & all our efforts are directed therein.

'Intelligence' is much, much more important than 'education', intelligence comes from an 'inquiring' mind, one gets a personal 'WOW' feeling when we discover how things work.

'Intelligence' is a 'tool', 'education' is information that may, or may not even be relevant to what we do in our lives, so, we 'use' one, but not necessarily the other, we do not use everything that we 'know', as we tend to 'specialise' within niche areas that are important to ourselves in our lives.`

'Intelligence' is how we use that 'information' acquired through 'education', 'experience' or 'learning', that's is what is important.

Are we actually more 'stupid'?

I don't think so, but the opportunity to exploit what 'education' has taught us, is not the same as being able to use that without gaining experience in our personal choice of niche work or career experience.

I have grandchildren who are incredibly bright, one is leaving school in May to become an Accountant(I am a certified Book-Keeper to Final Accounts in manufacturing & trading-retired),he is expected to achieve 'A' Level + in Maths, English & Science.
It has took me constant encouragement\praise to raise his confidence to the level at which it has produced results & I am very proud of him.
I also have a grown up (adopted)son who also received that same encouragement, he is a Level 7 Civil Servant, who has nearly 37 years experience in the job, he is the 'go to' for government's Permanent Secretary of State to seek advice from.

His most recent promotion was not self-initiated, but came from recommendation of his superiors, he rarely needs to commute, working from home.

By comparison to my grandson, he was less 'educated', but took my initial advice on choice of career, how to achieve the maximum benefit from that, which he has & is due for retirement on a very good pension in 10 years time.
Also, 'theoretical' or 'imagination' in respect of how our universe ticks is again important in stimulating our 'learning' development in our brains.
#14779442
@Nonsense
I think we have a new candidate for the oldest Pofoer. :)
#14779448
One Degree wrote:@Nonsense
I think we have a new candidate for the oldest Pofoer. :)


:lol: , my age is just a number 8) .
User avatar
By AFAIK
#14779452
Hindsite wrote:I don't think I am ready to trust a car to drive for me. However, I do like the GPS instead of looking up a route on a map.
I also might like a car to stop automatically to prevent driving into an object.

Technology has an insidious habit of alienating us from reality whilst providing us with greater convenience or power. In the case of GPS; blindly following it's commands is a lot easier than spending 10 minutes studying a map but after utilising the map and your own memory you develop an understanding of the layout of an area and can find new places by yourself. GPS fosters dependency, however.
#14779541
noemon wrote:I think that overall people are getting stupider indeed.

That is I think that if you take people like for like, for example the average intelligence of mathematicians from the past and compare them to mathematicians today, I think that the ones in the past would beat the modern ones and the same would happen if you took past farmers vs modern farmers, I think the ones from the past would be more intelligent than their modern counterparts. The cause for this in my opinion is the simplification of modern learning methods as well as the breakup of the sciences putting an emphasis to the particular rather than the encyclopaedic.

I think you need to distinguish between knowledge and intelligence.
We certainly know more than our forebears. Determining whether we are more intelligent or less isn't as well defined. Was Bertrand Russell less intelligent than John Napier? How would you determine that?
#14779552
MistyTiger wrote:I agree. People rely so much on computers to do even basic calculations.

I have noticed that today's cars are programmed to detect obstacles and traffic jams. Whatever happened to being observant and watching out for our own safety? People cannot even trust their own judgment?

This is making us duller and weaker.

I disagree.
The computer can tell me how far I can go on remaining fuel, average speed, distance travelled, outside temperature, if my passengers are wearing seat belts, if their doors are properly closed, set cabin temperature, and a myriad of other things.
The satnav, besides giving route guidance, can find me the nearest petrol (gas) station, hotel, supermarket, places of interest, congestion miles away, etc.

That allows me to concentrate on just driving.
#14779601
Besoeker wrote:I disagree.
The computer can tell me how far I can go on remaining fuel, average speed, distance travelled, outside temperature, if my passengers are wearing seat belts, if their doors are properly closed, set cabin temperature, and a myriad of other things.
The satnav, besides giving route guidance, can find me the nearest petrol (gas) station, hotel, supermarket, places of interest, congestion miles away, etc.

That allows me to concentrate on just driving.


:?: My brain does most of the above in less time than I take to start the car and the rest I would have found out before I even got in the car. :?:
#14779606
One Degree wrote::?: My brain does most of the above in less time than I take to start the car and the rest I would have found out before I even got in the car. :?:

On a trip how would you find out your average fuel consumption? Or speed? Or where there was traffic congestion 50 miles up the motorway?
#14779609
Besoeker wrote:On a trip how would you find out your average fuel consumption? Or speed? Or where there was traffic congestion 50 miles up the motorway?

When I stopped for gas, but I should already know this. Why am I just now checking it?
I would look at the speedometer.
I would have checked for congestion before leaving. Our highway system does not allow many practical options anyway, which is why you still have backups every single day despite this technology being readily available.
#14779612
One Degree wrote:When I stopped for gas, but I should already know this. Why am I just now checking it?
I would look at the speedometer.
I would have checked for congestion before leaving. Our highway system does not allow many practical options anyway, which is why you still have backups every single day despite this technology being readily available.

Exactly. My father is always checking on his car and he can find out from AAA where there are good hotels and gas stations before he sets out on a trip. He believes in being prepared.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using PoFo mobile app
#14779614
Besoeker wrote:On a trip how would you find out your average fuel consumption? Or speed? Or where there was traffic congestion 50 miles up the motorway?

You can figure this out through experience. You can tell how many miles you drive to leave you with a half tank. For traffic conditions, your local news site should give you updates. You can view videos or see a traffic map where there are accidents or construction work on major highway routes.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using PoFo mobile app
#14779760
Besoeker...

USA population 320 million... Canada population 35 million. Your math is broken. :p
#14779784
One Degree wrote:When I stopped for gas, but I should already know this. Why am I just now checking it?
I would look at the speedometer.
I would have checked for congestion before leaving. Our highway system does not allow many practical options anyway, which is why you still have backups every single day despite this technology being readily available.

Stopping for gas doesn't tell you average fuel consumption.
Looking at the speedometer doesn't tell you average speed.
You wouldn't what congestion you might meet 50 miles ahead if it hasn't yet happened before you set off.
#14779785
Godstud wrote:Besoeker...

USA population 320 million... Canada population 35 million. Your math is broken. :p

You obviously missed this:

"I'm sure you could make the same show about UK residents if you picked the right "victims"."

intentionally or otherwise.

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