[Soulflytribe]

This could likely be the reason. It's structural. The behaviour will change as the next generation comes up, though. In the next thirty years, I think that the number of female participants will have increased dramatically.

I don't think it ever will.

The feminists in the 60's thought that things would drastically change in the coming decades too. While some things have changed to an extent, women are still the primary caregivers and "make up 59 percent to 75 percent of family caregivers". And the reason is not "structural" because no one is forcing them to act like that, at least not in the Western world. They simply choose to care more about some issues than others on their own free will.

I think it's mostly due to the confrontational nature of political debate in general.

This certainly plays a role, but it doesn't explain why men blog more often about technology, science, politics, politicians and business and women blog more often about interests and hobbies, family and friends, creative work and personal experience...

[Rei Murasame]

The feminists in the 60's thought that things would drastically change in the coming decades too. While some things have changed to an extent, women are still the primary caregivers and "make up 59 percent to 75 percent of family caregivers". And the reason is not "structural" because no one is forcing them to act like that, at least not in the Western world. They simply choose to care more about some issues than others on their own free will.

Given that it used to be "100%", having a number of "59% to 75%" is a pretty significant change. Why are you in disagreement when your own figures contradict you?

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I don't think it ever will.

The feminists in the 60's thought that things would drastically change in the coming decades too. While some things have changed to an extent, women are still the primary caregivers and "make up 59 percent to 75 percent of family caregivers". And the reason is not "structural" because no one is forcing them to act like that, at least not in the Western world. They simply choose to care more about some issues than others on their own free will.

I don't know. While I agree that most women are not forced (in fact, this is actually a superficial privilege of women), men do not generally feel they are free to opt for the primary caregiver role. Contrary to what has been said in this thread, it's still a matter of self-respect for men to be able to provide for the family. Young men are generally more worried about the future and their career prospects than young women. So, it seems to me, there is still a "structural" aspect to the outcome you describe above.

This certainly plays a role, but it doesn't explain why men blog more often about technology, science, politics, politicians and business and women blog more often about interests and hobbies, family and friends, creative work and personal experience...

Well, the question was whether pofo's style and the behaviour of certain individuals would detract some women from posting.

[Pants-of-dog]

I don't know. While I agree that most women are not forced (in fact, this is actually a superficial privilege of women), men do not generally feel they are free to opt for the primary caregiver role. Contrary to what has been said in this thread, it's still a matter of self-respect for men to be able to provide for the family. Young men are generally more worried about the future and their career prospects than young women. So, it seems to me, there is still a "structural" aspect to the outcome you describe above.

There is also another "structural" reason why women are the primary caregivers. Jobs that are usually associated with women, such as teaching and nursing, are paid far less than traditional male jobs that require the same amount of education. Thus, when it comes time to decide which of the two people in a couple should stay home and take care of kids, it is often the woman who does so simply because the family will sacrifice less money that way.

Well, the question was whether pofo's style and the behaviour of certain individuals would detract some women from posting.

I believe that women are less likely to post on PoFo due to the behaviour of other posters. This thread is a perfect example of such behaviour.

[SE23]

^^ Rubbish to all of the above

Garbage men and firefighters are traditionally male jobs, yet they are paid the same (Depending on county/region) or less than nurses.
If a man wants to work in a nursery, people will assume he is a pedophile and thats bad for business.
Nurses are paid less than doctors, because although they are committed to a noble profession, there is not much competition in the market, and technically you don't need to be highly qualified to undergo nursing school, which takes a total of 2-3 years to complete, for doctors it takes a lot longer; and we shouldn't fail to mention paramedics, which traditionally are more male filled occupations, they receive a poor wage, compared to the service they offer.

- Also rubbish to your second post, are you really saying that women are that sensitive and weak, that a few anti feminist posts, are going to deter them from coming onto an online forum to discuss their beliefs and opinions.

[Pants-of-dog]

^^ Rubbish to all of the above

Garbage men and firefighters are traditionally male jobs, yet they are paid the same (Depending on county/region) or less than nurses.

No. Garbage haulers and firefighters do not need PSE like nurses and teachers.

If a man wants to work in a nursery, people will assume he is a pedophile and thats bad for business.

Your sexism is not a rebuttal for pointing out that nurses get pad less.

Nurses are paid less than doctors, because although they are committed to a noble profession, there is not much competition in the market, and technically you don't need to be highly qualified to undergo nursing school, which takes a total of 2-3 years to complete, for doctors it takes a lot longer; and we shouldn't fail to mention paramedics, which traditionally are more male filled occupations, they receive a poor wage, compared to the service they offer.

Yes, doctors get paid more because they have to do far more education. This is also not a rebuttal.

- Also rubbish to your second post, are you really saying that women are that sensitive and weak, that a few anti feminist posts, are going to deter them from coming onto an online forum to discuss their beliefs and opinions.

No. I am not saying that they are sensitive and weak. That's you assuming that female distaste for misogyny is based on being over sensitive and weak. That's your belief, not mine.

I am saying that they don't want to participate in forums where so many people act like they do in this thread.

[SE23]

You are clutching at straws here, firefighters provide a function in society much like rank & file police officers as well, another traditional male role, with similar pay scales as nurses.

Yes the shaming tactics are used because you have run out of intellectual arguments; you have shown that you see yourself as the heroic nice guy, who can throw the white glove and challenge us anti feminists to a duel for the sake of keeping the dignity and virtue of "your" women. One day when any self respect you have has vanished down the drain which is your life, you will weep and weep for you have lived a misled life. Good luck

[Pants-of-dog]

You are clutching at straws here, firefighters provide a function in society much like rank & file police officers as well, another traditional male role, with similar pay scales as nurses.

I don't care what rationalisations you give for undervaluing women's work. The structural difference of paying women less is still a factor when it comes to determining who stays home to take care of the kids.

And your logic here also applies to nurses, who also provide a necessary function for society. Why does a nurse get paid less despite being just as vital as a firefighter and requiring more education?

Yes the shaming tactics are used because you have run out of intellectual arguments; you have shown that you see yourself as the heroic nice guy, who can throw the white glove and challenge us anti feminists to a duel for the sake of keeping the dignity and virtue of "your" women. One day when any self respect you have has vanished down the drain which is your life, you will weep and weep for you have lived a misled life. Good luck

I am not using shaming tactics. Nor am I using personal attacks as you seem to be doing.

Back to the topic:

I think it's mostly due to the confrontational nature of political debate in general. Contrary to the image of the rational, male debater, many men get quite emotional when they talk about politics. They even fall out over it, so it's no coincidence that politics is generally not considered suitable for polite conversation.

I have personally, in real life, greatly reduced getting involved in debates over Israel/Palestine with people I don't know well, for instance, partly because I happened to be present when two guys started getting violent over the subject. Of course, this is extreme and does not happen often, but political debates can get highly charged and can completely destroy a good night out. And, in my experience, it's most often men who are the culprits.

So I suspect, it's this experience and the fact that many women are still socialised to be non-confrontational that contributes to the low number of females. There are probably other factors, but I don't think specific instances of insults as has happened in this thread are very important. As we've seen, they are usually dealt with and there are luckily also men on this board who stand up to that type of behaviour.

This ties in with my experience. Men are better at political debates while women are better at political organising, probably due to the socialisation you mention. My beloved, for example, spends more time organising community events and political discussions for indigenous people in our community than most guys spend here on PoFo.

And a lot of it is about conflict. By simply espousing feminist views, one seems to become a target for personal attack.

[SE23]

Firefighters get paid less than nurses or the same, depending on length of service or region of the country. By your logic, a traditionally masculine job such as firefighting should surely be benefitted by a high wage, especially that of a teacher or nurse, this can apply to other traditionally male jobs, such as police officers, soldiers, paramedics; who on the whole are paid the same as nurses or less, again depending on region.

You are falling for the false paradigm that "pro feminism = pro women or anti feminism = anti women". Equal pay and equal work is a con that only benefits big business, it has only been given such a platform, because of the paternal instinct of society personified by you which deems women as being weak/vulnerable and need of protecting. Ironic as feminism stipulates that it is against such benevolent sexism, yet creates a media panic, when a few troll twitter comments come their way.

[Pants-of-dog]

Firefighters get paid less than nurses or the same, depending on length of service or region of the country. By your logic, a traditionally masculine job such as firefighting should surely be benefitted by a high wage, especially that of a teacher or nurse, this can apply to other traditionally male jobs, such as police officers, soldiers, paramedics; who on the whole are paid the same as nurses or less, again depending on region.

I can't even parse these sentences into something legible. Word salads are not arguments.

I don't care what firefighters make. They are not comparable to nurses because nurses require more training.

You are falling for the false paradigm that "pro feminism = pro women or anti feminism = anti women".

No. Strawman.

Equal pay and equal work is a con that only benefits big business,

Equality is con that only helps the rich? You're really scraping the bottom of the argument barrel there.
If equality is so awful, you can give yours up, okay?

it has only been given such a platform, because of the paternal instinct of society personified by you which deems women as being weak/vulnerable and need of protecting. Ironic as feminism stipulates that it is against such benevolent sexism, yet creates a media panic, when a few troll twitter comments come their way.

And now you're back to your ineffective attempts at attacking me personally.

[layman]

What the female posters have said makes sense to me.

The style of most threads here is very aggresive and troll-like. I have never known a female poster on any forum to take part in trolling. I am not going to say women dont get anything from arguments but perhaps it is down to the type of arguments and the subject matter. I simply cannot imagine a bunch of women "debating" Israel in the way that the threads in this forum turn out, for example.

I dont really see why women who have children have to be less political. Even if that was part of the reason it doesnt really explain the lack of women in itself.

[Godstud]

In general, people address the arguments, and not the gender of the poster, as that is usually in doubt.

[SE23]

@Pantsofdog

You want to discuss traditional gender roles and pay scales, yet you don't want to compare firefighters and nurses. Firefighter training technically never does stop, and the career is more dangerous, yet it is still paid less than nursing; this deals a heavy blow to your theory that "male" jobs are paid more because they are male.

I can give up my equality" what does that even mean ? Your defeated feminist drone bot brain is beginning to crash down and failing to make any sense. I suggest you watch a few hours of MTV and the young turks to get a boost up.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pantsofdog

You want to discuss traditional gender roles and pay scales, yet you don't want to compare firefighters and nurses. Firefighter training technically never does stop, and the career is more dangerous, yet it is still paid less than nursing; this deals a heavy blow to your theory that "male" jobs are paid more because they are male.

Some of the report’s most salient findings relate to the segregation of the labor market. While women are vastly overrepresented in caregiving jobs, only a tiny minority of women works blue-collar jobs. This sort of segregation has momentous implications because caregivers get paid much less than blue-collar workers, who often get unionized wages.

“What that means is that for men and women who don’t have the benefit of a college or post-collegiate education, the access to good-paying jobs is really almost exclusively for men,” she said.

The situation is particularly dire for childcare workers, whose extremely low pay compromises their ability to provide quality care. “We as a society say that our children are valuable, and yet childcare workers are the single lowest-paid workers in the entire economy. There is not a single worker that gets paid less than a childcare worker, and that’s shameful.”

http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/2 ... etto-lives

I can give up my equality" what does that even mean ? Your defeated feminist drone bot brain is beginning to crash down and failing to make any sense. I suggest you watch a few hours of MTV and the young turks to get a boost up.

You were the one who was saying that "Equal pay and equal work is [sic] a con that only benefits big business," which probably means that you think that getting paid the same amount of money for doing the exact same job as the other guy does not benefit you. Since that is the case, it makes sense that you would want to give up this equality of yours.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Most desk jobs in the public sector are filled with women and they're infallible and are getting paid in gold.
In Ireland theirs a quota that must me met for women members. The result being fools like Mary Hearney worm their way into positions like minister for health and end up killing people! I'm not saying that women politicians are incapable but they shouldn't be given a job just to fill a quota. If anything it demeans them.

[Ombrageux]

My impression is that there are a lot less female political bloggers than male ones. I think this reflects men being more prone to geekery and a light autism in general. I also don't think as many women get the same emotional kick (displacement) talking about politics than men do. They protect their egos in different ways. Kaiserschmarrn you mention political debates ruining a night out, and I know what you mean, although for me there are evenings where I don't find anything interesting other than fully expressing the pros/cons of a particular issue. But you can't do that with everyone.

[Rich]

My understanding is that when you compare like with like, ie men and women with the same level of continuity, years spent in the work force, women earn the same or may be slightly more than men.

The pay gap is a feminist lie!

I believe the category of males should follow

Alpha) True leader of the pack, innovative, strong, aggressive, but at the same time in control of his emotions and desires, has the pick of women flocking to him, but he only has one who is of high value and fights off the rest with a stick. These guys are bosses, why because they understand the nature of their sexuality, but are not dominated or led by it. These guys are so above it all, that even the feminists can't touch them.

Omega) These are a class of males, the jerks, who have the most sex out of everyone, they breed like rabbits, utilise mystery methods, sleep with their best friend's wives, in an agrarian society, they would be killed off for having sex with every respectable male's daughters and running off, yet we appraise these guys as being strong; they are often the drug dealers, degenerates of society. Feminists claim to hate them but crave over them deep down inside

Beta) These are your average guys, who used to find it easy getting women, but now struggle and are constatntly screwed over cheated on by his wife with the Omega male, eventually divorced and have to pay heaps of child support to kids he barely ever sees., some leave for Asia and bike their way to the grave, which is pretty cool in it's own way, others who don't realise the true reality of being a man in a feminist society become the last category.

Zeta) These are the males that are completely destroyed by feminism, they are no longer male, but androgynous beings. They believe that they are being nice and treating women how they should be treated, but in fact they are despised; heck some of them will never realise this. They will gradually become impotent from masturbating away every vital energy they have to some sickening illusion which is internet pornography, ultimately they are domesticated, through and through. I would feel sympathy for this guy but they often bring down the stronger males to their level, isolate them, unless they prepare themselves to hear some harsh truths.

I am the Alpha and the Omega!

they think that playing on cheat-mode

There is no cheating in life. As there are no false markets. There are only markets. The so called rules of the game are just moves within the game.

[Intr0vert]

The forum is filled with sexists. Just look at the amount of threads dedicated to rape and discussions about whether the victim made a false allegation, if it actually qualified as rape or sexual assault to begin with and whether the woman in question deserved because of her dress or behavior. The misogyny here is rampant. To top that off, the site is full of extremists......far left, far right and Islamic radicals who on any given day can be found discussing the list of persons they would like to torture, kill or be killed in far away lands. Women aren't really into this kind of blood lust and extremists will turn off many wishing to join. Hence why this forum is dead and has a very low number of active posters.

[Godstud]

You're new, and don't know SHIT about any posters on these forums. You are in no position to judge anyone, as you are ignorant of everyone, Intr0vert. The people you describe are exceedingly rare here, and just because you don't agree with someone, does not mean you have to deride them, and name call.

[Dagoth Ur]

Ten bucks says intr0vert is a liberal boy who doesn't know that he's a liberal. Also lol extremists.